Edmonton Construction 13 (November 2015)

[big W]

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

Amen. I spent a decade as a second class Edmontonian, living centrally & carless. The staggering improvement to my quality of life over the last 2 months of owning & using a car is truly amazing, really. If I tried to take transit to work I'd have a 300m walk without sidewalks after a 40 minute commute; time spent driving? 5-12 minutes depending on the Metro Line. I save more money on groceries than I spend on gas in a given week now that I can stock up on sales & easily visit each of the chains once a week rather than visit one after the other, trudging the 5-10 blocks with a couple of bags every second day or so. I can run errands when they come up, rather than having to lump everything together & try to plot the most efficient route to get them done via our terrible transit. I can make a run out to my parents in Strathcona County or a trip to South Edmonton Common without requiring the assistance of others. It makes my life better in just about every way to have my car.

One thing to point out to everyone is even with all the construction (road closures, sidewalk closures, detours etc) things are much better downtown then they used to be. The one pet peeve I have is actually have a place to stay downtown. I wish there were more buildings built with families in mind. I have been living downtown for years and with a child who is now going to elementary school we are at the point where we don't have buildings or units that work for us to remain downtown.

[ciudad_del_norte]

In all sincerity, I do hope everybody that finds the city so terrible moves. I don't mean that in a spiteful way. I've lived other places (apparently really desirable places in Canada...) that I wasn't fond of and it really 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 living somewhere that you don't like.

I don't particularily care if people want to live a certain lifestyle or another - but if the one you want isn't here - and you have given up trying to work towards it, really isn't moving somewhere else the best option? Does Edmonton have more work to do than other "Big" canadian cities, yeah, for sure (I do also think we romaticize other cities here a bit much, though). I get feeling frustrated, and trying to find the balance between pushing for the lifestyle you want and doing what is easiest in the city. I just don't quite understand the attitude of "I used to think it could be better, but now I don't think so, so I'm just going to sit around and be grumpy about it". At some point maybe the place just isn't right for you, and that's okay. But that doesn't mean people have to come around and get pissy and condescending at the people that see something different in it.

[SHOFEAR]

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

Amen. I spent a decade as a second class Edmontonian, living centrally & carless. The staggering improvement to my quality of life over the last 2 months of owning & using a car is truly amazing, really. If I tried to take transit to work I'd have a 300m walk without sidewalks after a 40 minute commute; time spent driving? 5-12 minutes depending on the Metro Line. I save more money on groceries than I spend on gas in a given week now that I can stock up on sales & easily visit each of the chains once a week rather than visit one after the other, trudging the 5-10 blocks with a couple of bags every second day or so. I can run errands when they come up, rather than having to lump everything together & try to plot the most efficient route to get them done via our terrible transit. I can make a run out to my parents in Strathcona County or a trip to South Edmonton Common without requiring the assistance of others. It makes my life better in just about every way to have my car.

yeah, I like living downtown There are aspects of it that are very convenient and aspects that are a complete pain in the 🞵🞵🞵. As my lifestyle changes I'm finding the pain in the 🞵🞵🞵 parts start to outweigh the positives.

It's easy to be a champion of urbanism when your in your 20's. Unfortunately it's a lifestyle that for the vast majority of people eventually expires.

[noodlenoodle]

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

It's easy to be a champion of urbanism when your in your 20's. Unfortunately it's a lifestyle that for the vast majority of people eventually expires.

It's amazing how one's priorities change & evolve as you grow up & take on more responsibilities. I look back at some of my posts from when I first started on the forums, full of pie-eyed idealism & wonder how I could be so naïve & inconsiderate of the big picture. Thank goodness I've grown out of that & become more pragmatic & empathetic. The same can't be said for some people who've been stuck in 2007 for almost a decade.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

Just because Edmonton is a car-centric suburban city, it does NOT mean we should give up and not strive to be more transit-friendly, walkable urban city. I think the ideals and the desire is there, but is hindered by shoddy execution and backward-🞵🞵🞵 thinking.

I've read that there is a generational shift with this - that many millenials are not bothering to get cars, so maybe it will be them who will really changes things here. But on the other hand, this city risks more brain drain amongst that generation if it continues to prioritize the car over transportation options.

[SHOFEAR]

Originally Posted by ciudad_del_norte

In all sincerity, I do hope everybody that finds the city so terrible moves. I don't mean that in a spiteful way. I've lived other places (apparently really desirable places in Canada...) that I wasn't fond of and it really 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 living somewhere that you don't like.

I don't particularily care if people want to live a certain lifestyle or another - but if the one you want isn't here - and you have given up trying to work towards it, really isn't moving somewhere else the best option? Does Edmonton have more work to do than other "Big" canadian cities, yeah, for sure (I do also think we romaticize other cities here a bit much, though). I get feeling frustrated, and trying to find the balance between pushing for the lifestyle you want and doing what is easiest in the city. I just don't quite understand the attitude of "I used to think it could be better, but now I don't think so, so I'm just going to sit around and be grumpy about it". At some point maybe the place just isn't right for you, and that's okay. But that doesn't mean people have to come around and get pissy and condescending at the people that see something different in it.

I think we can have it both ways though. Nothing wrong with having urban orientated areas in the city and suburban ones. You can fight for a better jasper ave, but it doesn't mean you have to 🞵🞵🞵🞵 on somebody who wants to live on the south side and have an affordable and convenient place to raise kids. That's what confuses me about the urban elite. For a group that identifies themselves as pretty liberal they sure like to impose their ideals on everybody else.

[noodlenoodle]

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

I think we can have it both ways though. Nothing wrong with having urban orientated areas in the city and suburban ones. You can fight for a better jasper ave, but it doesn't mean you have to 🞵🞵🞵🞵 on somebody who wants to live on the south side and have an affordable and convenient place to raise kids. That's what confuses me about the urban elite. For a group that identifies themselves as pretty liberal they sure like to impose their ideals on everybody else.

For some people their entire personal (and professional) identity is wrapped up in their choice of lifestyle & any moves not in perfect alignment to their ideals is a personal slight & direct affront, not to be taken lightly. Any provisions for the reality of living in a car-centric city is taken as a direct & deliberate slight against alternate modes of transportation. If you're not ceding everything to the urbanists you're labelled as regressive & part of the problem.

Most people aren't nearly as preoccupied with "moving the city forward" as they're too busy with kids, families, jobs & balancing a whole level of responsibilities & obligations that a childless downtown denizen on the search for yet another patio can't even imagine. People are a bit preoccupied holding onto & maintaining what they've got to spend time wandering neighborhoods they don't live in or need to interact with.

[mintzilla]

^ but why can't we have our cake and eat it too?

Everyone loves suburbs. So why can't we build the best suburbs possible? Ones that include the best of all worlds. I seriously doubt anyone would be against a nice suburbs that is also pedestrian friendly with good links to transportations.

[Mikemike]

And Hurrah to the people who are working to move the city forward.

If more people were working to make sure that our city were built so that more kids could safely get to school under their own power then fewer parents would be forced to do the school run in the SUV on the way to work, even for highschool kids.

If more of us were working to ensure that we are a city with high quality public places then the rest of use would be less pressured to spend huge resources acquiring access to private places. if more of us were concerned about effective public transit than fewer of us would be forced to sacrifice another 10% of the family income on another car because transit's not useful to us.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

It was to create discussion and inform people of some of the issues, stirring the proverbial pot.

Information, free at available at that, is good for us all to make more information responses.

Like I said, lots of good work of late, considerable change occurring, but still a serious imbalance with how We Grow, Live, Work, Move etc.

so which is?

"lots of good work of late, considerable change occurring";

"still a serious imbalance with How We Grow, Live, Work, Move etc." which may more accurately be a reflection of those documents than whether things are being done well or not; or

"edmonton is still very much headed in the wrong direction"

because it can't be all three of those things. i'm not sure it can even be any two of those things.

if you want to be taken seriously, you have to take your own opinions seriously enough to be consistent with them. otherwise they'll continue to be nothing more than white noise generated to sound good but remaining relatively meaningless.

[Mikemike]

I disagree. We can make significant progress on direction without that direction being in the positive direction yet.

Our new street designs, for example, are far better than they were a couple decades ago, so progress. On the other hand, re-built streets tend to have wider curb radii than what was replaced, so worse for pedestrians crossing, or walking along the road.

Or, reduced parking minimums= Progress; having parking minimums at all=wrong direction.

[Coldrsx]

Good lord.

Cars, placating, justification.

Choose to live how you like, but please do not complain about how this city is what it is, or not what it is, or not what you want it to be.

I am continually mystified by the lack of correlation between how we live and what we get in return.

Ken - I appreciate your clarity and comments, but do question your perspective with regards to how this city is evolving. That said, discussion and constructive criticism is important.

[ciudad_del_norte]

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

I think we can have it both ways though. Nothing wrong with having urban orientated areas in the city and suburban ones. You can fight for a better jasper ave, but it doesn't mean you have to 🞵🞵🞵🞵 on somebody who wants to live on the south side and have an affordable and convenient place to raise kids. That's what confuses me about the urban elite. For a group that identifies themselves as pretty liberal they sure like to impose their ideals on everybody else.

Sure, and I don't really care if Windermere is better for somebody. But this is going both ways. People can have different aspirations and priorities. What I see happening here is somepeople see their priorities changing to be less about the urban lifestyle, some peopel are still trying to achieve it. If some people feel like that want to move onto something else, that's not a concern of mine, but that doesn't mean that they need to come and get pissy about those people who still hold the same priorities. The insinuation by some that the people who want the more stereotypical yuppie urban lifestyle are naive and stupid is no better than the so-called urban elite judging suburbanites. If somebody has given up on achieving an urban lifestyle here, or they just aren't interested in it anymore I don't really care - but they don't have a right to denigrate those that still want it.

So no, I don't think it's fair to expect that everybody lives car free. I don't - I don't use my car everyday but I definitely rely on it often enough. I don't think it's fair to assume that everybody should, or wants to live downtown. I do think it's fair to question somebody who claims they want to live a super urban lifestyle, but then lives downtown and chooses to drive to everything. Sometimes it may be necessary, but sometimes it isn't, and when people keep doing it when it's not even necessarily more convenient, it becomes harder to reach the goals they claim to hold. That is a fair point. Not that nobody should drive, but if they want to live an urban life they should actually do it, at least to limited extent it may be possible. But there is a difference between trying to force everybody into a certain lifestyle, and trying to fight for certain options that have faced an uphill battle.

I know how you feel about the concept of privilege, but I'm going to use it anyways. Your typical suburban car-centric lifestyle is privileged in Edmonton, in design, in history, in politics, and planning. When people question that privilege, it may seem like they are attacking, but they really just want some balance in the system. Yes, there are certainly some that would happily force people into a certain way of living, but they are pretty rare.

[240glt]

Well this horse has been beaten to death and I doubt we're going to come to any reasonable consensus, so here's some interesting news about my best pal Carmen Pervez and the seizure of some of his property. This is noteworthy as many have argued that him aquiring properties that should be redevelopment land but simply running them as substandard rental properties has kept a large number of infill properties from being developed

http://m.metronews.ca/#/article/news/edm...ng-to-seize-alberta-avenue-property.html

[noodlenoodle]

Originally Posted by kcantor

If you want to be taken seriously, you have to take your own opinions seriously enough to be consistent with them. otherwise they'll continue to be nothing more than white noise generated to sound good but remaining relatively meaningless.

On the nose.

[Mikemike]

^^ Would be nice if they can seize ALL his property.

Maybe later.

[Albicaulis]

Originally Posted by mintzilla

^ but why can't we have our cake and eat it too?

Everyone loves suburbs. So why can't we build the best suburbs possible? Ones that include the best of all worlds. I seriously doubt anyone would be against a nice suburbs that is also pedestrian friendly with good links to transportations.

As a resident of the very very suburban Summerside neighbourhood, I would tend to agree.

The housing options there (half-decent mix of SFH, townhomes, duplex and condo) coupled with the large amount of high quality office space (i.e. the Moasic building) is pretty good.

What I have found lacking is the overall execution. The road are confusing mess of cul de sac's and crescents and the offices have been far too segregated, like the nearby commercial. Effort on retaining a more grid-like pattern to allow increase flow-through traffic, then orienting the offices along such streets in a more centralised neighbourhood location would go a long long way without (I think) altering the over livability of such development.

[Black Star]

Yup.... Beat like a rented mule.

[buk]

Originally Posted by 240glt

Well this horse has been beaten to death and I doubt we're going to come to any reasonable consensus, so here's some interesting news about my best pal Carmen Pervez and the seizure of some of his property. This is noteworthy as many have argued that him aquiring properties that should be redevelopment land but simply running them as substandard rental properties has kept a large number of infill properties from being developed

http://m.metronews.ca/#/article/news/edm...ng-to-seize-alberta-avenue-property.html

While civil forfeiture can be a slippery slope, in this case it is fantastic news.

[feepa]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Clearly we want a small big town that is easy to drive around and park in. #windermere

Bra F@$%ing oh.

nice troll job bro.