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  #3881  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2016, 7:16 PM
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Looks like the 2 bars proposed by urban sparq have been nixed by the city...

much to the delight of those opposed to it I'm sure..

http://edmontonjournal.com/business/comm...on-rejects-two-big-box-bars-for-downtown
     
     
  #3882  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2016, 7:30 PM
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3rd DBA 'Core crew' tour by the office today, 15-20 people in each. Amazing how much these have grown in popularity from 3-4 people in each only a few years ago!

Well done DBA.

More info:

www.edmontondowntown.com
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  #3883  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2016, 7:35 PM
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^^^ That Kelly Ramsay shot is gorgeous...

Also, would it not be possible to create an off-topic thread on this board for the personal opinion and or cagematches?

EDIT: or what about that beer meetup. Some of yall need a visit from doctor steamwhistle.
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  #3884  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2016, 7:40 PM
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beer-meet cagematch?? I'm down to watch...
     
     
  #3885  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2016, 7:43 PM
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We certainly need an SSP beer night.
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  #3886  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2016, 8:01 PM
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We certainly need an SSP beer night.
The way things are going lately...

     
     
  #3887  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2016, 9:00 PM
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The entire point of the article was to create discussion and stir the pot. Whether it be car-less or less-car, more inclusive housing, reinvestment in existing schools or better transit and neighbourhood amenities, Edmonton is still very much headed the wrong direction.
i doubt very much that the entire point of the article was to create discussion and stir the pot.

you have to start by recognizing that avenue magazine is not primarily a news magazine. avenue is, in their own words, a "premier lifestyle magazine".

avenue's target market is "active, affluent and sophisticated consumers in two of Canada's most dynamic cities, Edmonton & Calgary" for whom "Avenue showcases each city's architecture, personalities, arts, fashion, food and design".

avenue and its loyal readers are the epitome of the previously noted echo chamber. they're proud of it and they're good at it and the linked article is an excellent demonstration of it.

what the linked article certainly is not however, is a demonstration that "edmonton is still very much headed in the wrong direction". that's the sort of conclusion and statement that convinces others that you spend too much time in an echo chamber all by yourself.
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  #3888  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2016, 9:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
i doubt very much that the entire point of the article was to create discussion and stir the pot.

you have to start by recognizing that avenue magazine is not primarily a news magazine. avenue is, in their own words, a "premier lifestyle magazine".

avenue's target market is "active, affluent and sophisticated consumers in two of Canada's most dynamic cities, Edmonton & Calgary" for whom "Avenue showcases each city's architecture, personalities, arts, fashion, food and design".

avenue and its loyal readers are the epitome of the previously noted echo chamber. they're proud of it and they're good at it and the linked article is an excellent demonstration of it.

what the linked article certainly is not however, is a demonstration that "edmonton is still very much headed in the wrong direction". that's the sort of conclusion and statement that convinces others that you spend too much time in an echo chamber all by yourself.
I found the poll a little misleading. I would think a grocery store in my neighborhood is important, and i do want parking available. I'm not saying I drive there every time, I quite enjoy the walk - but since it is on the way home from my work (that I NEED to drive to), then I want parking available. why drive all the way home to park and then backtrack walking to the store to buy cat litter and a 10kg bag of dog food?
I like my neighborhood. I like to walk. and I like my car.
     
     
  #3889  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2016, 9:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
i doubt very much that the entire point of the article was to create discussion and stir the pot.

you have to start by recognizing that avenue magazine is not primarily a news magazine. avenue is, in their own words, a "premier lifestyle magazine".

avenue's target market is "active, affluent and sophisticated consumers in two of Canada's most dynamic cities, Edmonton & Calgary" for whom "Avenue showcases each city's architecture, personalities, arts, fashion, food and design".

avenue and its loyal readers are the epitome of the previously noted echo chamber. they're proud of it and they're good at it and the linked article is an excellent demonstration of it.

what the linked article certainly is not however, is a demonstration that "edmonton is still very much headed in the wrong direction". that's the sort of conclusion and statement that convinces others that you spend too much time in an echo chamber all by yourself.
well said Ken.
     
     
  #3890  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2016, 9:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
i doubt very much that the entire point of the article was to create discussion and stir the pot.

you have to start by recognizing that avenue magazine is not primarily a news magazine. avenue is, in their own words, a "premier lifestyle magazine".

avenue's target market is "active, affluent and sophisticated consumers in two of Canada's most dynamic cities, Edmonton & Calgary" for whom "Avenue showcases each city's architecture, personalities, arts, fashion, food and design".

avenue and its loyal readers are the epitome of the previously noted echo chamber. they're proud of it and they're good at it and the linked article is an excellent demonstration of it.

what the linked article certainly is not however, is a demonstration that "edmonton is still very much headed in the wrong direction". that's the sort of conclusion and statement that convinces others that you spend too much time in an echo chamber all by yourself.
It was to create discussion and inform people of some of the issues, stirring the proverbial pot.

Information, free at available at that, is good for us all to make more information responses.

Like I said, lots of good work of late, considerable change occurring, but still a serious imbalance with how We Grow, Live, Work, Move etc.
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  #3891  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2016, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
i doubt very much that the entire point of the article was to create discussion and stir the pot.

you have to start by recognizing that avenue magazine is not primarily a news magazine. avenue is, in their own words, a "premier lifestyle magazine".

avenue's target market is "active, affluent and sophisticated consumers in two of Canada's most dynamic cities, Edmonton & Calgary" for whom "Avenue showcases each city's architecture, personalities, arts, fashion, food and design".

avenue and its loyal readers are the epitome of the previously noted echo chamber. they're proud of it and they're good at it and the linked article is an excellent demonstration of it.

what the linked article certainly is not however, is a demonstration that "edmonton is still very much headed in the wrong direction". that's the sort of conclusion and statement that convinces others that you spend too much time in an echo chamber all by yourself.
Ken, once again the consummate professional & class act on the forums. I never enjoy your posts quite as much as when you're dressing down Ian so thoroughly.

Well said!

E: I've given up completely on C2E, given the fact that Ian feels it's even remotely appropriate to be an instigator, argumentative & an agent provocateur in a thread only to have the gall to ban someone for disagreeing with him. I'm a little peeved that Richard had the audacity to comment about the detrimental effect the one-sided nature of the forums has had on the participation & uptake on the forums while leaving the ringleader of the echo chamber with mod powers. If I had known it was only lip service I'd never have contributed to the resurrection of C2E monetarily. I don't have the drive, patience or desire to actually bother with this place much either, but given Ian's direct control over C2E if I believe something requires my commentary I'll be levelling those comments here & not there.

Last edited by noodlenoodle; Aug 11, 2016 at 10:39 PM.
     
     
  #3892  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2016, 11:22 PM
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For f*cks sakes, this forum has really become a waste of my time lately.

Construction please.
     
     
  #3893  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2016, 11:35 PM
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Or how about instead of you lot quit whining about echo chambers and all that, tell us what you specifically disagree with that Avenue article.
     
     
  #3894  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2016, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
i doubt very much that the entire point of the article was to create discussion and stir the pot.

you have to start by recognizing that avenue magazine is not primarily a news magazine. avenue is, in their own words, a "premier lifestyle magazine".

avenue's target market is "active, affluent and sophisticated consumers in two of Canada's most dynamic cities, Edmonton & Calgary" for whom "Avenue showcases each city's architecture, personalities, arts, fashion, food and design".

avenue and its loyal readers are the epitome of the previously noted echo chamber. they're proud of it and they're good at it and the linked article is an excellent demonstration of it.

what the linked article certainly is not however, is a demonstration that "edmonton is still very much headed in the wrong direction". that's the sort of conclusion and statement that convinces others that you spend too much time in an echo chamber all by yourself.
Well articulated Ken. This is exactly the issue

^ SDM, let's start with the very first sentence. Who's saying that ? Avenue readers ? Ian's acquaintances ? Most Edmontonians ? I doubt the later, I've neither seen nor heard that to any appreciable degree. And the big jacked up pickup in the photo really just epitomizes the disconnect some folks have between they way they live and the way they perceive others do

Buk, I am the same as you. We carpool to work but make every effort to minimize driving otherwise, walk to the grocery up the street, I too love my neighbourhood and walking and my car. It's not as black and white as many seem to think it is

In any case it is what it is. Construction it is.. Quick, Somebody post a webcam screen grab of the arena off Twitter
     
     
  #3895  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2016, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Coldrsx View Post
Good design, killer location, huge amount of potential retail/amenity and more surface gone.

Win, win, win, win.
They did good here.
     
     
  #3896  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2016, 2:40 AM
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Well articulated Ken. This is exactly the issue

^ SDM, let's start with the very first sentence. Who's saying that ? Avenue readers ? Ian's acquaintances ? Most Edmontonians ? I doubt the later, I've neither seen nor heard that to any appreciable degree. And the big jacked up pickup in the photo really just epitomizes the disconnect some folks have between they way they live and the way they perceive others do

Buk, I am the same as you. We carpool to work but make every effort to minimize driving otherwise, walk to the grocery up the street, I too love my neighbourhood and walking and my car. It's not as black and white as many seem to think it is

In any case it is what it is. Construction it is.. Quick, Somebody post a webcam screen grab of the arena off Twitter
I agree with you that it's not black & white. I walk whenever I can, but I drive to my nearest grocery (Save-On at Jasper/109) once a week because it's 11 blocks away and I don't want to be walking with 4 or 5 bags of groceries with me for that distance, nor do I have any desire to wait 20 minutes to stuff myself + groceries onto a crowded bus then repeat with a transferring bus. I haven't had a decent grocery within my walking distance since Woodwards closed (and no the expensive, under-stocked and mismanaged Sobeys on 4th didn't count).

Personally I really do get a sense of all talk but no walk from many people when it comes to a more urban lifestyle, and yet I don't blame them - a lot of that blame lies with our 3 levels of government. I have co-workers who would love to commute via transit but end up driving our clogged roads because they find the public transit system is a sad joke compared to other cities - and we have decades of piss-poor transportation planning by this city to thank for that and which continues to this day. Yes, you can include keeping the City Centre Airport open when it was supposed to close after EIA opened as one of those gaffes, and the negative effects that had on developing urban life in the central core for decades. I can't recall how many times I've heard on the news "We're all for infill, we just don't want it here" but deeper into the story and the problem seems to lie with City Hall ineptitude. I have friends who agree with me that it is ridiculous that we have to shell out taxpayers' money to build new super-schools outside the Henday while schools inside are shuttered or are half-empty - and yet they live in suburbia because of few family-friendly housing choices that are affordable, relative lack of kid-friendly facilities and inadequate schools in neighborhoods closer to the core - things that are mostly out of their control. I know some singles who end up eschewing the urban lifestyle for the suburbs, and their reasons: problems with aggressive homeless people and meth-heads, drunk chavs marching the streets to look for someone to beat up or 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 harass, having to share poorly-maintained condo buildings with inconsiderate idiots and inept condo boards, tiny-peckered drivers with modified mufflers using the streets to reenact their favorite Fast and Furious scenes in the middle of many nights, all the good shopping is at WEM or Southgate, and others I can't recall right now. Many of these things can be dealt by a thinly-stretched law enforcement, but there's bigger causes such as our one-trick-pony oil economy of this province.

Alright I can use a drink now.
     
     
  #3897  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2016, 5:52 AM
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I agree with you that it's not black & white. I walk whenever I can, but I drive to my nearest grocery (Save-On at Jasper/109) once a week because it's 11 blocks away and I don't want to be walking with 4 or 5 bags of groceries with me for that distance, nor do I have any desire to wait 20 minutes to stuff myself + groceries onto a crowded bus then repeat with a transferring bus. I haven't had a decent grocery within my walking distance since Woodwards closed (and no the expensive, under-stocked and mismanaged Sobeys on 4th didn't count).

Personally I really do get a sense of all talk but no walk from many people when it comes to a more urban lifestyle, and yet I don't blame them - a lot of that blame lies with our 3 levels of government. I have co-workers who would love to commute via transit but end up driving our clogged roads because they find the public transit system is a sad joke compared to other cities - and we have decades of piss-poor transportation planning by this city to thank for that and which continues to this day. Yes, you can include keeping the City Centre Airport open when it was supposed to close after EIA opened as one of those gaffes, and the negative effects that had on developing urban life in the central core for decades. I can't recall how many times I've heard on the news "We're all for infill, we just don't want it here" but deeper into the story and the problem seems to lie with City Hall ineptitude. I have friends who agree with me that it is ridiculous that we have to shell out taxpayers' money to build new super-schools outside the Henday while schools inside are shuttered or are half-empty - and yet they live in suburbia because of few family-friendly housing choices that are affordable, relative lack of kid-friendly facilities and inadequate schools in neighborhoods closer to the core - things that are mostly out of their control. I know some singles who end up eschewing the urban lifestyle for the suburbs, and their reasons: problems with aggressive homeless people and meth-heads, drunk chavs marching the streets to look for someone to beat up or sexually harass, having to share poorly-maintained condo buildings with inconsiderate idiots and inept condo boards, tiny-peckered drivers with modified mufflers using the streets to reenact their favorite Fast and Furious scenes in the middle of many nights, all the good shopping is at WEM or Southgate, and others I can't recall right now. Many of these things can be dealt by a thinly-stretched law enforcement, but there's bigger causes such as our one-trick-pony oil economy of this province.

Alright I can use a drink now.
I never thought I'd see the day that I saw eye to eye with you. I've pretty much given up on the idea that Edmonton can, if you really try, be a city you can get by on with just transit and the odd taxi/uber but no car. I see how naive I once was. As much as we'd like to think otherwise, as as great as it is that we are slowly changing our ways, Edmonton is by and large a city meant to be driven in, even centrally. Look at Oliver Square, look at Jasper Ave west of 109th, look at 109 St on both sides of the river. This city is a joke sometimes when it comes to planning and even despite our progress, we still get fuck ups like the NAIT line. Or why the hell wasn't the LRT tunneled under University Ave? I get mistakes happen elsewhere too, but there seems to be a higher ratio of fails here and it is tied to our oil economy and how disposable and cheap it makes things here. This car-centric, disposable urban fabric is going to be hard to change. I mean, I'm not expecting Square 104 to be torn down anytime soon despite it looking rather ridiculous next to the new arena.

Despite the oil economy, I'm honestly always struck by how much more progressive (generally, sometimes not) urbanism is in Calgary, despite also being a newer place. People often say Edmonton is a great place to be if you want to see the city change into a more progressive place before your eyes as well as being able to be apart of the change, and while I can appreciate that, some days I just want to have a matured, older urban fabric like out east to call home. And if it weren't for my innumerous connections to this place, I'd have already left. I get things aren't perfect anywhere, but there are just things inherent to Edmonton that make me feel uninspired about this city.

At least there's supposed to finally be a CBD grocery option soon again with the Ice District. Like I said, it is nice to see things progressing finally but even when the Ice District is complete, we'll still have Oliver Square down 104th Ave. You bring up a solid point about the more obscured issue of funding suburban growth, causing us to pay for new schools, while our existing ones fall apart due to lack of services and amenities for families to settle in mature neighbourhoods.

Also how are we still 5 years behind every other major Canadian city in terms of cycling infra? It's not like there isn't demand -- I see it all over.
     
     
  #3898  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2016, 8:01 AM
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I don't really see why there's such opposition to more sustainable pedestrian friendly ideas on this board. It's literally the direction the entire world is moving towards but yet posters here get mad when you even so much as suggest "hey maybe we shouldn't develop our city 99% for cars"

As evident by every single development in this city being car focused, you guys already won. Stop playing the victem card. Maybe just maybe let some other ideas flourish for people who don't enjoy the suburban North American lifestyle.

Or don't... and when the glow of the oil boom is gone end up with a city that nobody but dinosaurs wants to live in.
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  #3899  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2016, 2:26 PM
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Clearly we want a small big town that is easy to drive around and park in. #windermere

Bra F@$%ing oh.
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"The destructive effects of automobiles are much less a cause than a symptom of our incompetence at city building" - Jane Jacobs 1961ish

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  #3900  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2016, 2:40 PM
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I never thought I'd see the day that I saw eye to eye with you. I've pretty much given up on the idea that Edmonton can, if you really try, be a city you can get by on with just transit and the odd taxi/uber but no car. I see how naive I once was. As much as we'd like to think otherwise, as as great as it is that we are slowly changing our ways, Edmonton is by and large a city meant to be driven in, even centrally.
Amen. I spent a decade as a second class Edmontonian, living centrally & carless. The staggering improvement to my quality of life over the last 2 months of owning & using a car is truly amazing, really. If I tried to take transit to work I'd have a 300m walk without sidewalks after a 40 minute commute; time spent driving? 5-12 minutes depending on the Metro Line. I save more money on groceries than I spend on gas in a given week now that I can stock up on sales & easily visit each of the chains once a week rather than visit one after the other, trudging the 5-10 blocks with a couple of bags every second day or so. I can run errands when they come up, rather than having to lump everything together & try to plot the most efficient route to get them done via our terrible transit. I can make a run out to my parents in Strathcona County or a trip to South Edmonton Common without requiring the assistance of others. It makes my life better in just about every way to have my car.
     
     
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