Edmonton Public Transit - Page 382

Landlocked · #**7621** Posted **Jul 18, 2016, 7:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hilman

Hyperbole? Are you trying to say that all those commuters cost the COE $0 for them to use our roads, police, fire, transit, etc? If so, you are even more out to lunch than I previously thought. Typical bedroom community mentality and thinking. Time for a wall and toll gates

Are you claiming that St. Albert is responsible for Edmonton's pothole, homeless, crime, motor vehicle accident, fire, and transit woes? See, two can play this game.

hilman · #**7622** Posted **Jul 18, 2016, 8:36 PM**

Yes, St. Albertan commuters are contributing to the cost of those things and pay $0 in property taxes towards it, seems pretty simple yet you still don't get it lol.

I will try to simplify things for you and try to use small words...

When people commute from outside of Edmonton, do they add wear and tear to City streets, yes or no?

Landlocked · #**7623** Posted **Jul 18, 2016, 8:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hilman

Yes, St. Albertan commuters are contributing to the cost of those things and pay $0 in property taxes towards it, seems pretty simple yet you still don't get it lol.

You're right, I don't get it. Anyone else get why St. Albert residents should pay property taxes in other municipalities? I'm sure Fort Saskatchewan, Nisku and Sherwood Park will be next in line demanding Edmonton residents start paying property taxes to their municipalities and counties, given how many Edmontonians work outside of where they live. I think the air is a bit thin on that hill.

hilman · #**7624** Posted **Jul 18, 2016, 9:00 PM**

Oh brother, try to keep up and follow the conversation. This about annexation and how we don't need 24+ municipalities making up metro Edmonton and duplicating costs.

noodlenoodle · #**7625** Posted **Jul 18, 2016, 9:02 PM**

Damn those bedroom community people, coming in to Edmonton for work, buying absolutely nothing, never patronizing Edmonton businesses or otherwise contributing to the local economy (even by their own labour, the bums) before going home without giving us a thin dime! They're getting a free ride!

mcc16 · #**7626** Posted **Jul 18, 2016, 11:22 PM**

Amalgamation is a bit of a sore spot in Toronto is it not? Priorities are very different for suburbs vs city... With amalgamation you bring in a bunch of road loving, mansion dwelling, wealthy families that do not care about anything either than keeping their commute clear. Vancouver seems like it has a better mix of regional vs municipal governments? I used to think amalgamation was the only answer, but there's gotta be a middle ground. And, relevant to the thread, transit should be regional priority. Even if it doesn't include regional transit service, better/efficient mass transit in Edmonton benefits everyone in region by easing traffic for the one-person-per-car suburbanites. Suburbs should throw in some money for grade separated road crossings

Coldrsx · #**7627** Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 1:22 AM**

Won't somebody think of the children!

SHOFEAR · #**7628** Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 2:18 PM**

First priority of the new regional municipal government would be bike lanes to Beaumont on 50th street.....

Yeah, I think the region would be better if the CoE's bureaucracy and social engineering did not spread.

Daveography · #**7629** Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 2:43 PM**

^ It's cute that you think the city would be able to build a bike lane at all.

SHOFEAR · #**7630** Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 2:46 PM**

Yeah, I forgot to include incompetence along with bureaucracy and social engineering.

noodlenoodle · #**7631** Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 2:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

First priority of the new regional municipal government would be to launch an expensive study, followed by a pilot project, followed by further rounds of study, followed by soundbites about how the federal government isn't giving us the requisite funding to properly provide bike lanes to Beaumont on 50th street.....

Yeah, I think the region would be better if the CoE's bureaucracy and social engineering did not spread.

Fixed that for you.

MalcolmTucker · #**7632** Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 3:27 PM**

^ Hehe. What I especially like is when the city 'funds' an item requesting matching from the federal and or provincial government full well knowing that it is out of scope of existing funding programs and the timelines suggested would be tight even if the scope was right and the envelope existed.

EdmTrekker · #**7633** Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 4:05 PM**

I wish we had a metro government - we could benefit from having some of the Councilors from St. Alberta and Strathcona in Council - save us from the gang of 7.

Jasper and one o nin · #**7634** Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 4:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hilman

Yes, St. Albertan commuters are contributing to the cost of those things and pay $0 in property taxes towards it, seems pretty simple yet you still don't get it lol.

I will try to simplify things for you and try to use small words...

When people commute from outside of Edmonton, do they add wear and tear to City streets, yes or no?

But St. Albert residents spend their money in Edmonton. Which in turn supports businesses who pay do pay tax. Do visitors add wear and tear to City streets? You would be surprised that, from an added cost perspective, the answer is no. Roads are designed to accommodate a particular load factor. Whether it is 80,000 cars a day, or 100,000 cars, the damage created by the added traffic is negligible. The road will look the same after 5 or 10 years and will need to be replaced or repaired at the same time. Sun, rain, freeze, thaw, and subsurface conditions are the biggest factors leading to roadway deterioration. The central city will always provide more services and require more infrastructure. However, it is bringing in more revenue as a result of those non-residents coming into the City to work, shop, eat, and be entertained. An extreme example is Las Vegas. I don't believe residents even pay property tax because the non residential assessment covers the City's costs, which is supported by non residents.

feepa · #**7635** Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 4:43 PM**

for all those bitching and complaining about st albert, etc not paying for LRT, you seem to forget the provincial government pays for most our LRT... not the local governments.

So, yes, in a way, every Albertan help pay for our LRT.

rapid_business · #**7636** Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 4:50 PM**

Can we move on from this childish banter?

McBoo · #**7637** Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 5:41 PM**

I've moved on from uni-city, but I wonder, Calgary gets gasoline tax money from the province for its million+ residents. As far as I know, neither St. Albert nor Strath County get a portion of the gas tax.

Does CoE get that share too (we should if they don't)?

Would like to see regional policing and transit though. Any jurisdiction thinks they don't get enough of either would be free to top up (at their own expense).

MalcolmTucker · #**7638** Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 5:59 PM**

So it is a long road, and twice consolidated now. City Transportation Fund --> Basic Municipal Transportation Grant --> MSI

http://municipalaffairs.alberta.ca/msi-funding-allocations-eligibility

"Basic Municipal Transportation Grant (BMTG) funding is based on municipal status, with Calgary and Edmonton receiving funding based on litres of taxable road-use gasoline and diesel fuel sold in the province; the remaining cities and urban service areas receive funding based on a combination of population and length of primary highways. Towns, villages, summer villages, improvement districts and the Townsite of Redwood Meadows receive funding based on population; and rural municipalities and Metis settlements receive funding based on a formula that takes into account kilometres of open road, population, equalized assessment, and terrain."

The BMTG is a consolidation of 4 grants, joinged together in April 1, 2011 from the following components:
City Transportation Fund
Basic Capital Grant
Streets Improvement Program
Rural Transportation Grant
Provincial Highway Maintenance

https://www.transportation.alberta.ca/images/BMTG_Guidelines_November_2013.pdf "The Minister and the City agree that the amount of funding provided will be based on 5 cents per litre and volume of taxable road-use gasoline and diesel fuel sold within the province of Alberta, as confirmed by Treasury Board and Finance. "

Working backwards it isn't pure population, as Edmonton is over allocated if that was the case. I remember it being described as sales within city limits, but that isn't written down anywhere I can find.

McBoo · #**7639** Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 6:07 PM**

^ Thank you!

EdmTrekker · #**7640** Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 6:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBoo

I've moved on from uni-city, but I wonder, Calgary gets gasoline tax money from the province for its million+ residents. As far as I know, neither St. Albert nor Strath County get a portion of the gas tax.

Does CoE get that share too (we should if they don't)?

Would like to see regional policing and transit though. Any jurisdiction thinks they don't get enough of either would be free to top up (at their own expense).

bump

Edmonton Region appears to betting screwed...nor do Spruce Grove, Stony Plain (which should be a City), Leduc etc. etc. etc.