HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Business & the Economy


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1161  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2016, 6:01 AM
Alex Mackinnon's Avatar
Alex Mackinnon Alex Mackinnon is offline
Can I has a tunnel?
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Van
Posts: 2,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin View Post
Airbnb helps property owners subsidise their run-away mortgages.

People just have to start a family in smaller homes, or the City of Vancouver has to allow even more densification by upzoning SF areas.
Helping keep the bubble expanding and reducing the opportunities for renters and hotel operators simultaneously.
__________________
"It's ok, I'm an engineer!" -Famous last words
     
     
  #1162  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2016, 2:16 PM
WarrenC12's Avatar
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: East OV!
Posts: 24,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon View Post
Helping keep the bubble expanding and reducing the opportunities for renters and hotel operators simultaneously.
We booked an Airbnb spot for the first time ever for an upcoming vacation weekend. It wasn't my first choice, but I was really shocked at the prices that hotels were demanding. Saving approx $100/night and getting more amenities like a full kitchen made it a no-brainer.
     
     
  #1163  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2016, 6:23 PM
Alex Mackinnon's Avatar
Alex Mackinnon Alex Mackinnon is offline
Can I has a tunnel?
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Van
Posts: 2,217
The economics are pretty interesting to think about with AirBnB, and the like.

It makes me wonder if we'd currently be building a lot more hotel capacity if not for AirBnB. But, the cynic in me guesses that would probably be a no, and the operators are probably organized enough to maximize occupancy rather than compete seriously on volume.
__________________
"It's ok, I'm an engineer!" -Famous last words
     
     
  #1164  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2016, 12:11 AM
Klazu's Avatar
Klazu Klazu is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Above Metro Vancouver clouds
Posts: 10,408
Is there anynone surprised by this? When can we get rid of Krusty the Clown?

Quote:
The Tyee: Clark's Pay from Donors Too Tied to Real Estate Moguls: Eby

The interests of BC Liberal Party donors who fund Premier Christy Clark's salary top-up appear to be determining the government's response to the housing affordability crisis in the province, says NDP critic David Eby.

A lot of BC Liberal donations come from wealthy people in the real estate industry, and the party's person in charge of keeping them flowing is himself a top marketer of condo developments, Bob Rennie.

A recent City of Vancouver study found that roughly 12.5 per cent of condos in the city are empty, Eby said. And yet the government has declined to take steps to discourage owners from allowing condos or other homes to sit empty.

Asked Eby, "Why would [Clark] rush to put an additional tax on international investors holding these condos empty if she's getting major donations from luxury condo builders who want this to continue?"

Clark confirmed this week that she has personally received in total more than $300,000 from the BC Liberal Party in annual stipends since she became leader in 2011.

She defended the practice in the legislature, saying that leading the party is a second job that merits the extra pay. While she had disclosed each year that she received money from the party, the amount had not previously been made public.

''The issue for us is to make sure we always separate our public duties from any sources of funding for political parties, and I think that's the most important thing for all of us to remember,'' Clark has reportedly said in defense of the stipend. ''I always keep that utmost in my mind when we're making decisions.''

Eby has complained to conflict of interest commissioner Paul Fraser about the payments to Clark, noting the party's money comes from donors, some of whom pay to attend private events with the Premier.

"The Premier's share of these donations may as well be passed directly to the Premier by the attendees of her parties in an envelope at the beginning of the evening," he wrote. "This conduct is outrageous, incredibly problematic, and directly contrary to the public interest."

Condo king runs fundraising, a cut goes to Premier

Elections BC's database of political contributions shows many people and companies involved in the real estate industry gave the BC Liberals donations in the tens of thousands of dollars in 2015, the most recent year for which figures are available.

Names appearing near the top of the list, each having given at least $50,000 during the year, include the Aquilini family, Bosa Properties Inc., Concord Pacific, Developments Corp. Inc., Shape Properties, and developers Rick Ilich and Peter Redekop.

The fundraising chair for the Liberals is condo marketer Rennie, whom The Tyee recently reported gave the party $73,500 in 2015.

"Bob Rennie's a great example," Eby said. "Here's a guy who is one of the most famous condominium sales agents in North America who is running the fundraising for the Premier who refuses to put a tax on speculative investors driving up the prices of condos in Metro Vancouver."

People can't help but ask questions about Rennie's involvement in the party and how it might affect Clark's policy choices, said Eby. "Why is she refusing to act? Is it because the chair of her fundraising committee is a condo salesman? That is a legitimate question in my mind and one we should all be asking."

Rennie was unavailable for an interview. When The Tyee called his office, we were asked to email the interview request to his assistant. That email received no response.

Rennie last year called for a speculation tax on ''house flippers'' who profit from buying and then quickly reselling homes. However, he slammed the idea of a housing sales tax on foreign investors.

Rennie's Vancouver-based firm sells existing units and pre-sells units in developments under construction. The website for Rennie's firm claims: ''We can get your home in front of more potential purchasers than any other brokerage'' and to have pre-sold, last year, over $1 billion worth of units in 21 real estate projects.

Support for new construction

Despite Vancouver being one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world, government officials have ruled out doing anything that would reduce prices.

A year ago, as the #Don'tHave1Million campaign highlighted the negative effects of high house prices in the Lower Mainland, Finance Minister Mike de Jong said, "You've got to be careful about intervening, about having the state intervene to try and regulate pricing or depress pricing."

He and Clark have both said taking action to reduce prices would erode the equity families and other owners have in their homes and that they don't want to do that.

In February, when de Jong presented the provincial budget, the main policy aimed to increase densification by exempting the sale of any newly built home selling for less than $750,000 from the property transfer tax. The measure would save a buyer a maximum of $13,000.

Eby said that while the new exemption doubtless suits Rennie and others in the real estate business just fine, it is unlikely to have much effect on prices. When small condos sell for half a million dollars to international buyers and the price is disconnected from local wages, it does nothing for affordability, he said.

It's hard to convince the neighbours of new developments that they should accept higher density when it seems unlikely to make property more affordable, he said. "I don't know how you answer that criticism."

Meanwhile, the government has so far failed to take steps to address speculation in the real estate market and discourage owners from leaving properties vacant, he said.

Big donor influence

As long as BC Liberal Party donors seem to be setting the agenda on real estate and other policies, it's a problem, Eby said. "This is the problem with big money in politics," he said. "It distorts policy priorities of government."

The public often feels that donors have undue influence over governments, and in the case of the one led by the BC Liberals that feeling seems to be well justified, he said.

In 2015, the BC Liberals raised a total of nearly $10 million, $50,000 of which the party used to supplement Clark's public salary.

The NDP, which received just over $3 million in donations over the same year, wants a ban on corporate and union donations to political parties. Most other Canadian provinces and the federal government already have limits on donations.

In B.C. where there is no limit on political donations, Eby said it's unlikely Clark and her party will act to fix a system from which they benefit. "Her party does so well by those donations, and she does personally very well by those donations, then why would she change that policy?"

http://thetyee.ca/News/2016/05/02/Clark-Donors-Tied-Real-Estate/

     
     
  #1165  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2016, 1:24 AM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,055
to coin an old cliché ...

Something seems rotten in Denmark ... or am I wrong?
     
     
  #1166  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2016, 4:04 AM
dreambrother808 dreambrother808 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 4,429
Very rotten. I voted Liberal in the last election, no more. I voted Vision in the last election, also no more.

Offer a viable alternative and my vote is yours. Make the hard decisions that can actually effect change. No more Vision PR 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 or Liberal absolute nothingness.

The city is at a crisis point. As a renter, I was shielded from some of the ownership issues but now rental rates are going through the roof. I am done.
     
     
  #1167  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2016, 5:11 AM
giallo's Avatar
giallo giallo is online now
be nice to the crackheads
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 12,749
"He and Clark have both said taking action to reduce prices would erode the equity families and other owners have in their homes and that they don't want to do that."


This out-of-whack equity that you helped, nay, pushed to create. This is your monster that you unleashed on us, Libs.

I've had it with the BC Liberals. They've always been my party of choice in BC, but enough is enough. They're borderline self-destructive at this point.

This party of ours may actually get people in this province to vote NDP again. I never thought I'd see the day.
     
     
  #1168  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2016, 5:47 AM
dreambrother808 dreambrother808 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 4,429
The crazy part is how out of tune they are with the populace. PEOPLE ARE DONE. This rage is nothing like the last election. This is raw and uncontrollable. To any politician out there, you make or break your career on this issue, and not just in platitudes but in REAL ACTION.

Gregor or Christie or anyone else, if you have any vision beyond your political career ending at the next election, do something, or rather do something 2 years ago.
     
     
  #1169  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2016, 9:10 AM
retro_orange retro_orange is offline
retro_orange
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: East Van
Posts: 2,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreambrother808 View Post
Very rotten. I voted Liberal in the last election, no more. I voted Vision in the last election, also no more.

Offer a viable alternative and my vote is yours. Make the hard decisions that can actually effect change. No more Vision PR 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 or Liberal absolute nothingness.

The city is at a crisis point. As a renter, I was shielded from some of the ownership issues but now rental rates are going through the roof. I am done.
You and me both. I have been looking at the cost of housing in Nanaimo just for fun, an old SFH starts at under $175k, older townhomes under $130k.... VERY tempting even if I have to make at least one trip a week into Vancouver for my urban-minded sanity.

Last edited by retro_orange; Jul 10, 2016 at 9:30 AM.
     
     
  #1170  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2016, 7:43 PM
Vin Vin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon View Post
Helping keep the bubble expanding and reducing the opportunities for renters and hotel operators simultaneously.
Seriously it's almost impossible for a developer to build a medium cost 25-storey hotel tower anywhere beyond the downtown limits in Vancouver. Downtown lot land uses are so limited as well. OV and West Broadway? Good luck at that. Don't blame the Airbnbs when land use restrictions are the main culprit for downtown 's expansion to include more amenities elsewhere in her city.

As for the housing bubble, it's an established fact that the maintenance of massive SFH and low density lands in Vancouver is one of the biggest factors as to why we are paying so much, and driving costs even to the suburbs.
     
     
  #1171  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2016, 8:33 PM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin View Post
Seriously it's almost impossible for a developer to build a medium cost 25-storey hotel tower anywhere beyond the downtown limits in Vancouver. Downtown lot land uses are so limited as well. OV and West Broadway? Good luck at that. Don't blame the Airbnbs when land use restrictions are the main culprit for downtown 's expansion to include more amenities elsewhere in her city.

As for the housing bubble, it's an established fact that the maintenance of massive SFH and low density lands in Vancouver is one of the biggest factors as to why we are paying so much, and driving costs even to the suburbs.
Vin, not to contradict, but do you really imagine that if SFH zones were rezoned to allow for mid-to-highrise developments, thereby providing for more dwelling places,
that the monster housing price bubble would deflate?
It might abate for a short period, but I'm sure that it would reinflate again to previous levels, as the constant inflow of investor money can find
its way around laws and regulations in the loopholes that exist.
Nice idea, but rather "dreamsville," IMO. Excuse me.
     
     
  #1172  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2016, 1:14 AM
casper's Avatar
casper casper is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria
Posts: 12,975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin View Post
Seriously it's almost impossible for a developer to build a medium cost 25-storey hotel tower anywhere beyond the downtown limits in Vancouver. Downtown lot land uses are so limited as well. OV and West Broadway? Good luck at that. Don't blame the Airbnbs when land use restrictions are the main culprit for downtown 's expansion to include more amenities elsewhere in her city.

As for the housing bubble, it's an established fact that the maintenance of massive SFH and low density lands in Vancouver is one of the biggest factors as to why we are paying so much, and driving costs even to the suburbs.
Exactly. Look at all the hotels in Richmond relative to the South West Marine drive area in Vancouver. Basically Vancouver needs to become more dense.

The SFH need to make way for higher density housing.

As for affordability, in places like Singapore the majority of the population lives in affordable housing run by housing authorities. Their is no reason housing authorities have to be just focused on the poor. They can also play a role in creating middle class rental housing providing a downward pressure on the free market housing.
     
     
  #1173  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2016, 1:15 AM
casper's Avatar
casper casper is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria
Posts: 12,975
Quote:
Originally Posted by retro_orange View Post
You and me both. I have been looking at the cost of housing in Nanaimo just for fun, an old SFH starts at under $175k, older townhomes under $130k.... VERY tempting even if I have to make at least one trip a week into Vancouver for my urban-minded sanity.
Nanaimo is a great place to live. What is missing (and will eventually come back) is high speed downtown to downtown passenger ferries.
     
     
  #1174  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2016, 1:20 AM
retro_orange retro_orange is offline
retro_orange
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: East Van
Posts: 2,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post
Something seems rotten in Denmark ... or am I wrong?
Mayor Quimby: Christy clark
Mr. burns: Bob Rennie
Smithers: Gregor Robertson

• Video Link

Last edited by retro_orange; Jul 11, 2016 at 3:00 AM.
     
     
  #1175  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2016, 2:44 AM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,055
Question can I change my opinion? ......

Quote:
Originally Posted by casper View Post
Exactly. Look at all the hotels in Richmond relative to the South West Marine drive area in Vancouver. Basically Vancouver needs to become more dense.

The SFH need to make way for higher density housing.

As for affordability, in places like Singapore the majority of the population lives in affordable housing run by housing authorities. Their is no reason housing authorities have to be just focused on the poor. They can also play a role in creating middle class rental housing providing a downward pressure on the free market housing.
Hey!! If affordable housing can be built by the authorities, across the board for poor and middle-class alike, then, heck yes! Go for it!!
This is one instance where substantial involvement by government may mitigate gross excess brought on by the private sector.
Vin, I read your post wrongly, I think. Sorry.
Casper, IMO, you've found a diamond on the beach. It was there all along, but nobody took notice ... until now. Hope it's doable !!!
     
     
  #1176  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2016, 3:12 AM
Migrant_Coconut's Avatar
Migrant_Coconut Migrant_Coconut is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kitsilano/Fairview
Posts: 10,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by casper View Post
As for affordability, in places like Singapore the majority of the population lives in affordable housing run by housing authorities. Their is no reason housing authorities have to be just focused on the poor. They can also play a role in creating middle class rental housing providing a downward pressure on the free market housing.
HDBs for Vancouver? Sure, we're already trying everything else...
     
     
  #1177  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2016, 6:41 AM
casper's Avatar
casper casper is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria
Posts: 12,975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
HDBs for Vancouver? Sure, we're already trying everything else...
A growing proportion of social housing in BC is created and operated by independent not-for-profit entities. The provincial government provides the seed money but hen lets them operate on their own after that.
     
     
  #1178  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2016, 6:49 AM
Metro-One's Avatar
Metro-One Metro-One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Japan
Posts: 18,025
I got to say, I am so happy I am not there to vote in the next election, because honestly this seems like a lose lose situation now.

I also usually voted Liberal, but I would probably sit this election out. I still could not vote for the NDP because they have not really brought any decent plans to the table, and I really dislike their anti-everything approach to the resource and energy industries and highways. The only thing I like about the NDP is that the UBC subway would be built. Even they have not really brought anything of too much substance to the table regarding this crissis and foreign investment.

No tears from me though is both Christy and Gregor are gone next cycle.
__________________
Bridging the Gap
Check out my Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/with/29495547810/ and Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV0_0h9qKlhxXFxuAey_q6Q
     
     
  #1179  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2016, 6:12 PM
Vin Vin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,739
Quote:
Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post
Vin, not to contradict, but do you really imagine that if SFH zones were rezoned to allow for mid-to-highrise developments, thereby providing for more dwelling places,
that the monster housing price bubble would deflate?
It might abate for a short period, but I'm sure that it would reinflate again to previous levels, as the constant inflow of investor money can find
its way around laws and regulations in the loopholes that exist.
Nice idea, but rather "dreamsville," IMO. Excuse me.
Actually, I'm thinking more in the line that there should be way more high density family type dwellings (3 to 4 bedrooms, or as Casper suggested) all over Vancouver's SFH neighbourhoods so that people do not have to covet SFHs so much. That would make single family houses less desirable in the longer run, and definitely bring prices down. In fact, Vancouver should slowly phase out SFH housing, as I really don't understand why people have a sense of entitlement to a very inefficient form of housing in a city with limited space. I don't see any big expanse of SFH neighbourhoods in major cities around the world (be it in NY, Tokyo, Singapore, London, Copenhagen, Paris, Seoul....), and if Vancouver wants to grow, they have to go. The reason why housing price is pushed to such a high level is only because we want ourselves to be a globalized city and yearn for international money to come our way (since Expo86 to solve all the post hippie econnomic ills), but yet stubbornly cling to all the antiquated restrictions to allow this city to grow properly. Canadians allow this nonsense of unaffordable housing to happen, and not the chinese government or its immigrants. So I always view this thread as borderline racist.

Last edited by Vin; Jul 12, 2016 at 1:21 AM.
     
     
  #1180  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2016, 6:23 PM
Vin Vin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,739
The following article presents a more accurate picture of what is happening in Vancouver right now; same thing why the Brits chose to "Brexit", and why Trump is so popular in the more rustic belt states of the U.S.: The growing insecurity and a fear of competition.


http://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/is-racism-part-of-the-housing-issue-of-course-it-is

Pete McMartin: Is racism part of the housing issue? Of course it is


To the surprise of no one, certainly not to me, the provincial government’s unveiling of foreign ownership data in Metro Vancouver’s housing market was widely panned by critics as being useless, misleading, obfuscatory, laughably incomplete, a deliberate attempt to protect Bob Rennie’s interests. … Have I missed anything?

You have to wonder why the province even bothered. The response was predictable, given how earlier government attempts at data-mining in the housing market have been greeted. That the number of vacant homes in Vancouver appeared to be negligible? Pish! That house-flipping numbers hadn’t even begun to approach historic highs? Tosh! Just exactly what data would please the housing and real estate critics seemed to be a moving and mutable target, dependent on whether or not it conformed to their beliefs. There was no convincing them that, for any data governments proffered, anything but the opposite was true, because they knew it to be true. Their own research confirmed it was true. Therefore, anything governments said about the housing market was a lie.

Who knows? Maybe they’re right. But what this most recent offering by the government has done, and the critics’ and public reaction to it, is bring us closer to a truth of a different kind. Finally, we’re getting to the crux of the matter. It’s about the nature of the remedy to our housing “crisis” as the critics and many members of the public see it. It’s not a vacancy tax they want, or a tax on foreign ownership, neither of which would do much to cool the market, anyway. They want to rewrite the rules of immigration and tax law, and close the door. (Or as they put it: It’s Chinese money, not Chinese immigrants, that has created this market. Which makes me wonder exactly how they would go about separating the two.)

Is that racist?

Of course it’s racist. And if it didn’t begin as racist, as housing and real estate critics insist it did not, that it was purely an economic issue, that it’s not the colour of the homebuyers’ skin that mattered but the colour of their money, then the prolonged and lop-sided take on the matter in the media and in public opinion has made it racist.

It speaks for itself that we regard this huge infusion of capital into Metro Vancouver’s real estate market as a disaster rather than an unprecedented creation of wealth for British Columbians and the B.C. economy — which is now, not coincidentally, the best-performing in Canada. We have cultivated an Us Against Them dynamic — Them being the devious, dirty-monied, tax-avoiding, Maserati-driving, heritage-home-destroying, self-ghettoizing Chinese who steal into Canada through our immigration loopholes, outbid us for our housing, and abuse the social welfare state that we have created. We, of course, cast ourselves as innocent bystanders in all this rather than accomplices, despite the fact that not 20 or 30 years ago we were doing everything we could to attract Asian money to B.C. because of our hope to become world class and globally competitive, and to lift us out of the cycles of boom and bust that British Columbians had suffered. How soon we conveniently forget. What did we think Expo 86 was, if not a door swung wide open?

Now? It’s no longer a matter of housing. It’s a matter of culture and race in an increasing climate of mutual resentment — or perhaps you haven’t noticed the flood of spittle-flecked comments at the end of media stories about how we’ve been selling Canada off to the Chinese. And the remedy — one that is finally beginning to coalesce and make itself clear — is one not unlike the Chinese head tax of 1885. It’s the head tax stood on its head. In 1885, we wanted to keep the Chinese out because they were too poor and too numerous and would steal our jobs. Now, we want to keep them out because they are too rich and too numerous and would steal our homes.

We should admit to that. We should own up to that racially tinged resentment. I certainly will. I’ve felt resentment when I see an 18-year-old Chinese kid driving a Ferrari down the street with an “N” on its back bumper, and I’ve felt resentment at the thought of wealthy immigrants living in Point Grey mansions who declare incomes low enough to qualify for GAIN payments.

But then, I’ve also felt resentment at the many born-in-Canada professionals who, long before the wealthy Chinese got here, avoided paying taxes by incorporating themselves or by hiding their money offshore, while I ended up owing more taxes at the end of the year. And I’ve felt resentment, too, for an old-stock wealthy class which in the past didn’t give a damn whether or not I could afford to live in Vancouver until they saw their own neighbourhoods besieged by an even wealthier class.

Small of me? You bet. But I’m trying to honest here.

[email protected]



Let's be honest with ourselves, shall we not?
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Business & the Economy
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:38 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.