PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Knight Hospitaller]

Folks just cannot help themselves when it comes to pointless comparisons, and Philadelphians seem never to believe in their own good fortune. You'd think this was the second city of the eastern seaboard by accident.

[Philly-Drew]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

I mean, if we're going down the road of comparisons, no city can match the career/earnings potential of New York, but even then we're talking about a very small pool of people (let's not forget that the median household income in New York City is approximately 50k--not exactly indicative of some widespread lavish lifestyle. In addition, it's not exactly desirable for a city to become the land of oligarchs.

Oligarchs? Damn, I had to google that one!

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by PhillySteaks

Haha, good luck with that sales pitch. That's like trying to get someone from Philadelphia to move to Cleveland because it's cheaper.

I really don't think that comparison is accurate at all. A new yorker in philadelphia would certainly find an enormous drop off in amenities both in quality and quantity, but the basic bones of a dense vibrant city still exists in Philadelphia. Cleveland is a different beast entirely.

Even if you did accept that comparison though, which I'll admit isn't THAT off base, the difference is how close Philadelphia is to nyc and dc. In the rare instance where Philadelphia simply doesn't have what you're looking for, Nyc is a short train ride away. The same can't be said for Cleveland. Even a business that absolutely must conduct some business in nyc, Philadelphia remains an option.

I think you may be a little different because you're originally from Philadelphia, which means like most philadelphians you were probably instructed of our inferiority shortly after birth. Every nyc transplant I've ever met can't believe how much philly offers at incredibly cheaper price.

Overall, I tend to find that no one thinks less of Philadelphia than Philadelphians.

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

Oligarchs? Damn, I had to google that one!

A good one to know, haha when speaking of the super rich I've always preferred Plutocrats though.

[1487]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

I'm very much of the opinion that savvy office space brokers need to be out there drumming up business in NY and DC particularly. "NYC QOL for St. Louis prices!"

I agreee. Much of Philly's recent efforts have been on getting suburban companies to move or to open small CC offices. I think they should go after companies in other east coast cities more aggressively.

[1487]

Originally Posted by PhillySteaks

Yea I deleted my original comment since I assumed most people would read into it with the wrong context.

It's just the way it is right now. Just being realistic from personal observations after growing up here and spending a decade plus in NY, then coming back to philly (I'll admit not for a job lol). Can it change? Yea definitely, but for the time being it's just not the case.

its been well documented that there is a small, but steady flow of people out of Brooklyn into Philadelphia. Folks painting the QOL for New Yorkers (middle class, not the uber rich) as rosy are delusional. I know several people who used to work and live up there who are now in this area and they are very honest about the hassles, cost and commuting times they faced in New York. It's funny you mentioned the homeless because one of my coworkers who had been up there and now works in CC said when he visited recently he noticed the homeless problem up there seemed as bad in spite of the fact he initially thought Philly had it worse when he came here in early 2015.

[1487]

Originally Posted by PhillySteaks

Agreed, there are exceptions as always. Just fewer opportunities for those top tier ambition people to grow a career and move into the upper echelon of income brackets.

same could be said of every major city not called New York with the possible exceptions of the Bay Area cities. And at the end of the day only a fraction of people in New York have those upper end jobs paying $200k a year. And considering what it costs to live luxuriously up there making $200k there is like making $125k here. $200k isn't even a lot of money up there, just means you can be solidly upper middle class. It's sort of like people who want to be in showbiz who move to LA because thats where the big money and opportunities are. For every LA transplant that makes it big there are probably 50 who are waiting tables and doing odd jobs to pay the rent while they hope and pray to land some sort of lucrative acting gig.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by PhillySteaks

Haha, good luck with that sales pitch. That's like trying to get someone from Philadelphia to move to Cleveland because it's cheaper.

Actually, being from Ohio originally I can tell you that that is exactly the sales pitch Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Columbus are using. And you know what? It's starting to work. I have many friends who are moving back to Ohio from LA, NYC, Chicago, DC, etc. because it's so much cheaper, there's not as much congestion, the schools are good, the parks are awesome, etc. They go back to visit and realize "wow, things in Cleveland/Cincinnati/Columbus have really changed for the better, and it's SO CHEAP!"

If we continue to invest in QOL amenities in Philly, more and more people in the surrounding cities will realize they can get the same QOL (or better) in Philly for a discount.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by 1487

its been well documented that there is a small, but steady flow of people out of Brooklyn into Philadelphia. Folks painting the QOL for New Yorkers (middle class, not the uber rich) as rosy are delusional. I know several people who used to work and live up there who are now in this area and they are very honest about the hassles, cost and commuting times they faced in New York. It's funny you mentioned the homeless because one of my coworkers who had been up there and now works in CC said when he visited recently he noticed the homeless problem up there seemed as bad in spite of the fact he initially thought Philly had it worse when he came here in early 2015.

Yep, every NYer I know says they can't believe how accessible everything in Philly is. Yes, if you live in NYC you have Broadway, but you're going to pay an arm and a leg for a show and you are going to spend 40 minutes on an overcrowded train from you apartment in Flatbush to get to it. On the other hand, for the same rent you're paying in Flatbush you can live in a nice apartment in Center City where you can see a show for the fraction of the price and you can take a leisurely stroll through 18th/19th Century neighborhoods to get there. How can you not choose Philly?

[iheartphilly]

What QOL amenities are we missing that other big cities have?

[1487]

Originally Posted by br323206

Yep, every NYer I know says they can't believe how accessible everything in Philly is. Yes, if you live in NYC you have Broadway, but you're going to pay an arm and a leg for a show and you are going to spend 40 minutes on an overcrowded train from you apartment in Flatbush to get to it. On the other hand, for the same rent you're paying in Flatbush you can live in a nice apartment in Center City where you can see a show for the fraction of the price and you can take a leisurely stroll through 18th/19th Century neighborhoods to get there. How can you not choose Philly?

I read a lengthy story that someone had linked in a planphilly article comments section regarding the problems with NYC subways. It's getting really bad up there due to overcrowding and old infrastructure. Delays and overcrowded trains are now the norm on the subways up there and riders are getting frustrated. MTA is saying there isn't much they can do because they are bursting at the seams and the more popular the subway gets the worse things get.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

What QOL amenities are we missing that other big cities have?

I really don't think we're missing ANY. But I do think there are ways to improve upon what we have. The rail park is a good example. Continued expansion of the trail network, and bike lanes. Upgrades to transit would be great but I don't see it happening soon. Continued investment in parks. These types of things. I think we do really well, but there is always room for improvement.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by br323206

Yep, every NYer I know says they can't believe how accessible everything in Philly is. Yes, if you live in NYC you have Broadway, but you're going to pay an arm and a leg for a show and you are going to spend 40 minutes on an overcrowded train from you apartment in Flatbush to get to it. On the other hand, for the same rent you're paying in Flatbush you can live in a nice apartment in Center City where you can see a show for the fraction of the price and you can take a leisurely stroll through 18th/19th Century neighborhoods to get there. How can you not choose Philly?

I am talking to 2 friends who are looking to move their families from NYC to Philly for these reasons - one of whom works on Broadway. It is a city that has so much in such an accessible package it's amazing. But the jaw drop usually happens when they see the prices. NY'ers are always waiting for the "catch" when we show them the prices for what you get and they never find it. In NY, you're conditioned to accept conditions (long commute, pioneering, 6 story walk-ups, safety etc.) for the opportunity to live in the city. Here, you don't have to.

My daughter lives in a 500 sq ft apartment in the East Village. Its a 6 story walk-up, doesn't have a living room because they turned the LR into a bedroom so they could call it a 2 bedroom and looks like something out of "Taxi Driver." It also has the charming feature of having the bathroom in the hallway. Yes, if you need to use your bathroom, you have to leave your apartment, go into the 2.5 ft wide hallway at the top of the stairs and unlock the pad-lock on the door of your bathroom. All this for the low price of $2900/mo. And that was best deal they could find.

This could only happen in NY.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Redddog

I am talking to 2 friends who are looking to move their families from NYC to Philly for these reasons - one of whom works on Broadway. It is a city that has so much in such an accessible package it's amazing. But the jaw drop usually happens when they see the prices. NY'ers are always waiting for the "catch" when we show them the prices for what you get and they never find it. In NY, you're conditioned to accept conditions (long commute, pioneering, 6 story walk-ups, safety etc.) for the opportunity to live in the city. Here, you don't have to.

My daughter lives in a 500 sq ft apartment in the East Village. Its a 6 story walk-up, doesn't have a living room because they turned the LR into a bedroom so they could call it a 2 bedroom and looks like something out of "Taxi Driver." It also has the charming feature of having the bathroom in the hallway. Yes, if you need to use your bathroom, you have to leave your apartment, go into the 2.5 ft wide hallway at the top of the stairs and unlock the pad-lock on the door of your bathroom. All this for the low price of $2900/mo. And that was best deal they could find.

This could only happen in NY.

That's cheap...I have family in NYC-Tribeca neighborhood. A small 2-bedroom, 1 bath apt cost $4500.

[Nightman]

For those that haven't been there yet, I highly recommend going to Skygarten at 3 Logan Circle, 17th and Arch. I has amazing open air views from the 51 floor. You can see north, east and west views of the city and suburbs. Best part is there is no charge, just need to be 21. Sorry I can't figure out how to post pictures

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by allovertown

like most philadelphians you were probably instructed of our inferiority shortly after birth. Every nyc transplant I've ever met can't believe how much philly offers at incredibly cheaper price.

Overall, I tend to find that no one thinks less of Philadelphia than Philadelphians.

Well said. I grew up a very lonely cheerleader for this place.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Nightman

For those that haven't been there yet, I highly recommend going to Skygarten at 3 Logan Circle, 17th and Arch. I has amazing open air views from the 51 floor. You can see north, east and west views of the city and suburbs. Best part is there is no charge, just need to be 21. Sorry I can't figure out how to post pictures

Meaning to get there, but part of me worries that one of my five kids will climb the railing.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Meaning to get there, but part of me worries that one of my five kids will climb the railing.

No kids under 21 allowed up there. I tried bringing my kids up there but was refused for good reasons.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Nightman

For those that haven't been there yet, I highly recommend going to Skygarten at 3 Logan Circle, 17th and Arch. I has amazing open air views from the 51 floor. You can see north, east and west views of the city and suburbs. Best part is there is no charge, just need to be 21. Sorry I can't figure out how to post pictures

If you have an imgur or flickr account-get the BBC code and post it.

[Mikieman]

Don't know if that changed, but I was up last Friday and they allowed my kids to go up, there were other kids there too. We went right at 5, don't know if that makes a difference or not? View was amazing!

[1487]

Originally Posted by br323206

I really don't think we're missing ANY. But I do think there are ways to improve upon what we have. The rail park is a good example. Continued expansion of the trail network, and bike lanes. Upgrades to transit would be great but I don't see it happening soon. Continued investment in parks. These types of things. I think we do really well, but there is always room for improvement.

investment in parks has been an issue for a while but Kenney is planning to invest $300M into parks and libraries- that should make a significant difference in that infrastructure.

NYC's transit infrastructure is more far reaching and impressive, BUT the flip side is the capital needs of such a large system are almost inconceivable. Making wholesale improvements in a system that large takes many, many years or never gets done at all.