Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 4

[Future Mayor]

Yeah, I heard that same interview. I agree on the SW corner, with the gateway there and trax near by it would make sense to engage that corner. I would also like to see it extend to the sidewalk at least on one of the street faces, I would prefer 300 W, maybe even the 300 W 100 S corner, with the restaurant entrances there as well as the Fanzz store. I do like keeping the majority of the NE plaza as it's a great place to host events, especially during the playoffs.

My assumption is that they will add suites below the existing suites, and bump the concessions out. It seems like they would work there logistically. If they expand the concourse area they could easily push the concessions out. Similar to how the suites are at the Maverick Center, tucked behind the concessions.

[asies1981]

Changes are coming to the TSA zone.

[scottharding]

Originally Posted by asies1981

Changes are coming to the TSA zone.

At last! This is much needed.

[delts145]

It will be interesting to see what positive changes come about, especially on streets like 400 S.

[delts145]

I would like to see the CBD of Salt Lake City push for establishing a campus the size of the Cottonwood Corporate Center. Stretch it out along the south side of 600 S., along with attractive housing and mixed-use commercial. Something of that size, with attractive styles, such as above could really go a long way toward filling out that highly visible gateway corridor. There needs to be a focused push toward an infill that could eat up a lot of empty, underdeveloped space. Anything that could speed up the 'Grand Boulevard' vision. I'm sure if Salt Lake put it's mind to it, they could make it competitive with the likes of these surburban business parks.

Originally Posted by Orlando

Here's a decent new office building up in the Cottonwood Corporate Center. Much better than those bland ones on the bluff overlooking I-215.

[ThePusherMan]

While we are on the topic of stadiums, I had a conversation with a friend of mine who said he met some guys who were looking into bringing a professional baseball team to Salt Lake City. Sounded like they were some sort of developers and said they were really involved in building the Rockies stadium in Denver. He said that one of the big draw backs they faced with developing in Utah is that not only do they like to build a stadium but they also like to develop the land around the stadium with bars and restaurants, play landlord and make money multiple different ways. However, the problem with Utah is that liquor licenses are so hard to come by that a project like that just isn't feasible here yet.

Reminded me of how Top Golf wanted to come to Utah much earlier but was delayed on account of liquor license difficulties. To think, we could have a MLB team here in the near future... Guess those liquor laws are hurting us more than we thought.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by delts145

I would like to see the CBD of Salt Lake City push for establishing a campus the size of the Cottonwood Corporate Center. Stretch it out along the south side of 600 S., along with attractive housing and mixed-use commercial. Something of that size, with attractive styles, such as above could really go a long way toward filling out that highly visible gateway corridor. There needs to be a focused push toward an infill that could eat up a lot of empty, underdeveloped space. Anything that could speed up the 'Grand Boulevard' vision. I'm sure if Salt Lake put it's mind to it, they could make it competitive with the likes of these surburban business parks.

I would like to see something like this between Main st and Major st(extended to state for certain stretches) and from OC Tanner to the Ball Park. OC Tanner is a good start, the area is near downtown but neither part of it nor really in competition with it, and office parks seems to be both appropriate for the area longterm and an immediate upgrade.

I actually think the Grand Boulevard needs more height and density than a suburban office park. I think that the area from 300-500 west and from 500-700 south should be rezoned as WYW1. Experiment with removing zoning restrictions on buildings in that 4 block area. Let developers have at it. Maybe someone has some vision, maybe not. I do think a "whatever you want" zone would have to peak the curiosity of some enterprising developer. What a fun experiment!

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by ThePusherMan

While we are on the topic of stadiums, I had a conversation with a friend of mine who said he met some guys who were looking into bringing a professional baseball team to Salt Lake City. Sounded like they were some sort of developers and said they were really involved in building the Rockies stadium in Denver. He said that one of the big draw backs they faced with developing in Utah is that not only do they like to build a stadium but they also like to develop the land around the stadium with bars and restaurants, play landlord and make money multiple different ways. However, the problem with Utah is that liquor licenses are so hard to come by that a project like that just isn't feasible here yet.

Reminded me of how Top Golf wanted to come to Utah much earlier but was delayed on account of liquor license difficulties. To think, we could have a MLB team here in the near future... Guess those liquor laws are hurting us more than we thought.

I am curious to what level they were at in considering bringing MLB team to Salt Lake City. I can understand the vision of wanting to build the stadium and some of the surrounding amenities, but what teams are for sale, and in addition to having the money to buy the team and finance the stadium, reality is that there is now 5 major league sports; NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, MLS, does the Salt Lake CMA have the residential and corporate population to support three?

I'm not by any means saying we don't I'm simply asking the question. The nice thing about having a Triple A baseball team is that there is very little money required to operate that team as all the salaries of players, manager and coaches comes from the parent club.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

I would like to see something like this between Main st and Major st(extended to state for certain stretches) and from OC Tanner to the Ball Park. OC Tanner is a good start, the area is near downtown but neither part of it nor really in competition with it, and office parks seems to be both appropriate for the area longterm and an immediate upgrade.

I actually think the Grand Boulevard needs more height and density than a suburban office park. I think that the area from 300-500 west and from 500-700 south should be rezoned as WYW1. Experiment with removing zoning restrictions on buildings in that 4 block area. Let developers have at it. Maybe someone has some vision, maybe not. I do think a "whatever you want" zone would have to peak the curiosity of some enterprising developer. What a fun experiment!

I agree that there is some serious potential between 13th to 21st South, and State to Main, as well as along 13th S all the way to 3rd W. There is already a couple of key components to the neighborhood that would be ideal to add in some residential and commercial 1) Proximity to Trax, and I-15 at both 13th and 21st, I-80 along State and State St itself. 2) Proximity to amenities, such as Smith Ballpark, restaurants, and several popular bars in the area.

I think State St would be ideal for a few office buildings, but I think residential could thrive, particularly between 13th and 17th. I like to refer to that area as Midtown.

[ThePusherMan]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I am curious to what level they were at in considering bringing MLB team to Salt Lake City. I can understand the vision of wanting to build the stadium and some of the surrounding amenities, but what teams are for sale, and in addition to having the money to buy the team and finance the stadium, reality is that there is now 5 major league sports; NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, MLS, does the Salt Lake CMA have the residential and corporate population to support three?

I'm not by any means saying we don't I'm simply asking the question. The nice thing about having a Triple A baseball team is that there is very little money required to operate that team as all the salaries of players, manager and coaches comes from the parent club.

I'm not sure. Again, this is some second hand knowledge I'm passing on here. As far as if our CMA can support three, I think so. The support for RSL is pretty ridiculous considering that no one cared about soccer in this valley until we got a pro team. I think that this would happen with baseball too and we have a hell of a head start with the SL Bees. Forbes has the bees listed in the top 15 most profitable minor league teams. That plus the caché of that comes with being in the majors I absolutely think we could support it. Not to mention the volume economics of games per season. I really think MLB should be SLC's next pro level sport. As far as purchasing a team goes, it probably won't be necessary because the MLB is looking to expand to 32 teams in the somewhat near future. Expansion cities are mostly in Canada and Mexico City but if we fought for it I think we could get it.

[Comrade]

Most cities would support a MLB team initially, so, I'm not convinced of that argument.

The MLB plays 81 home games a year and the average attendance is 30,366 people a game. Can SL average 30,366 people over 81 games, especially if the team struggles?

Currently, the Bees, who used to draw very well in the PCL, rank 9th in a 16 team league. In the entire Triple A, they rank 17th.

Granted, it IS minor league baseball, but it's also the closest thing we have to compare with the MLB - an extremely long home slate during work hours. I don't doubt a MLB team could draw well on the weekends or for holidays, but consistently? I'm skeptical.

[wrendog]

If MLB expands, we would be pretty far down the list of expansion candidates, sorry to say.

[asies1981]

The city plans to extend the 300 South bike lane to the University of Utah, but without the concrete barrier.

[San Diego-Honolulu]

Originally Posted by wrendog

If MLB expands, we would be pretty far down the list of expansion candidates, sorry to say.

Agree. I can easily see Austin, Portland, Louisville, Nashville, and Charlotte getting an MLB team before Salt Lake City.

[Comrade]

Yup. I'd throw in San Antonio, Las Vegas, Montreal, Mexico City, Vancouver, Columbus, New Orleans and others. Not to sound dour, but SLC is nowhere on the MLB's radar. We probably only have slightly better odds than Boise.

In fact, I'd wager Salt Lake stands a smaller chance of grabbing a MLB team than a NFL or NHL one - with the latter probably their most likely bet at landing a team (and even that's sketchy at this point).

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I agree that there is some serious potential between 13th to 21st South, and State to Main, as well as along 13th S all the way to 3rd W. There is already a couple of key components to the neighborhood that would be ideal to add in some residential and commercial 1) Proximity to Trax, and I-15 at both 13th and 21st, I-80 along State and State St itself. 2) Proximity to amenities, such as Smith Ballpark, restaurants, and several popular bars in the area.

I think State St would be ideal for a few office buildings, but I think residential could thrive, particularly between 13th and 17th. I like to refer to that area as Midtown.

For sure. This would be my plan for the success of "People's Freeway*".

1)Create an Urban Renewal Area within the district.
2)Use the power of eminent domain to demolish the Main Street Motel and that run down Chinese restaurant and put a new city park(Midtown Park?) in its place. The Park would be central to the neighborhood and it has a pretty decent looking church for a neighbor. Perhaps a really nice little league baseball field would be appropriate.
3)Sell People's Freeway Park and the attached utilities lot to be developed as multi family residential. Move that out west at the same time that the fleet block is redeveloped.
4)Revist the zoning especially between Main and State. IIRC most of it is currently zoned central commercial with either a 35' or 45' height limit. Let's increase that height limit and allow for a mix of residential, office, and retail.

I think it could be a gem of a neighborhood if it wasn't treated as an afterthought.

* I wish the city would rebrand the neighborhood Midtown. I guess they have kind of adopted Ballpark but I like Midtown better. Ballpark is pretty meh.

[Ironweed]

[QUOTE=Liberty Wellsian;7478422]I would like to see something like this between Main st and Major st(extended to state for certain stretches) and from OC Tanner to the Ball Park. OC Tanner is a good start, the area is near downtown but neither part of it nor really in competition with it, and office parks seems to be both appropriate for the area longterm and an immediate upgrade.



I agree with Liberty on this. SLC has seriously neglected both Main Street and State Street from 21'st south to about 600 and 700 south. Both streets in those areas resemble, and contain elements of a skid row. Significant and quality development needs to occur there as part of the 'Grand Boulevard' concept. There needs to be a housing mix! The community continues to refuse to mix low income housing with high end. Economic segregation has never worked.

[Future Mayor]

But if Midtown redevelops, and North Temple does to, where are all the street walking hookers going to go?

In all seriousness though, I don't mind the Ballpark neighborhood moniker, but I think that doesn't really fit as you get closer to State and 17th S. It could easily be re-branded "Ballpark-Midtown" Something needs to be done with "Peoples Freeway" that is a horrible name for a neighborhood, why in the world would you want to have Freeway in the name of your neighborhood?

I like the idea of getting rid of the classy Hooker Hotel on Main, as well as all the other one's on State. I also agree with allowing the heights to increase, allow for the heights on State and Main to be as tall as the road is wide, but since that won't happen, at least allow for 75'. The nice thing about that area is there are plenty of cross street between State and Main as well as Major St that runs parallel between the two, so the wall effect wouldn't be an issue. There are a few remaining residential streets between State and Main and I think that taking into consideration the transition in heights for those streets is important. A stepped back approach would be important there.

I've for years thought the area is highly underutilized and have driven the area many times. The potential of Major St with some 3 story row houses mixed with some 3-4 story mixed use, and 5+ stories along Main and State in certain areas could transform the neighborhood.

I like the idea of making it an RDA project area, and put in a requirement that all residential development must have 25-30% affordable units, this could be split between several ranges of affordable. This would allow for existing residents to stay in the neighborhood, continue to be an affordable neighborhood, would not result in one development being concentrated as affordable, would provide a nice demographic mix, while still providing the discretionary income to support local businesses.

[Future Mayor]

What about something along these lines. Form based code with differing heights.

This is how I would utilize the area if I could master plan it. I have kept some of the existing housing stock and some of the existing uses, like Piper Down and restaurant next door, along Big Willey's on Main and 17th S, and Challenger School. I included the park that Liberty suggested, in place of the hotel and vacant Japanese restaurant. I would keep the existing street parking, and parking for all new buildings would be alley access.

I think this provides a nice variety in the area, including uses, building types and building heights, I think this improves what little is left of an existing neighborhood, rather than completely destroying it.

Thoughts?

Red - 3 story row houses
Purple - 3-5 story mixed use; residential/retail/office.
Blue - 5-8 story mixed use; residential/retail/office.

[Liberty Wellsian]

I'm actually pretty worried that they are going to try and dump the homeless shelter on that neighborhood. I would be fine with the women's shelter or a family shelter but not the men's shelter. The men should stay at their current location. I don't think there is another neighborhood better equipped to deal with their bull **** and continue to move forward. I think that if they move the men they will have a greater and less contained effect on another neighborhood. It will likely create and instant and permanent slum.

Further I don't really think that it's fair to transfer wealth by way of property values from poorer neighborhoods to wealthier ones.