PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[summersm343]

New thread created

1500 Hamilton - 12 floors X2 - 160 FT x2 - luxury apartments/retail

Link to thread:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=7467740#post7467740

[br323206]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

Please don't compare Philly's commercial alleys with Melbourne's. It's just ridiculous.

The cool, active alleys in those other cities were once just like our own - backs of buildings, lined with dumpsters, filled with slime. Just takes some vision to do it differently.

https://www.theurbanist.org/2015/09/17/m...-revitalization-of-city-laneways-part-2/

https://www.broadsheet.com.au/melbourne/...eways-bars-cafes-restaurants-six-degrees

http://www.sightline.org/2011/08/26/alley-alley-in-come-free-2/

It has been demonstrated repeatedly in competently-planned cities around the world that backs of buildings need not be dumps and can be transformed in to walkable, commercially active places relatively free of garbage and stench.

Just takes a little vision and some will. Again, let's learn from places that do it better. If that's not NYC, fine. Pick any of the many other cities that do it much better than Philly.

The info is so readily accessible, Googlable, at our fingertips.

Some of you are so knee-jerk reactive - I really don't get it. Other places just do this a lot better. It's simple. There are much better ways of dealing with side streets, alleys, garbage storage, than we have here. If you have the chance to travel, you see this is so very obvious. Why be so insecure about that? Why defend a pretty stupid way of doing things? This is a great opportunity. Yet rather than learn from people who do it better, some of you hold your ears like a 5 year old and say "I'm not listening, I'm not listening". The right way of dealing with it is to think: hmmm, they do it better. Imagine how much better Philly could be if we could implement such great ideas here. We can and we should.

The Reading Viaduct is a great example of this, as is bikeshare. The idea didn't originate here, but we can implement it, in some ways we may be able to outshine some of the cities whose ideas we adopt.

I showed you an actual picture of an actual disgusting alley in Melbourne. There are lots more. They've transformed some of their alleys and that's great. The ironic thing is that I actually saw an article awhile back that cited some of Philadelphia's awesome alleys like Camac and Quince as inspiration for Melbourne's efforts.

Bottom line: You think the existence of dumpster alleys is a travesty. I think it would be great to transform some of them into something more inviting but I really don't think it's that big of deal. I also don't think our situation is any worse than most cities I've visited or studied. We disagree and that's ok. The problem people have with you is that you seem to think that anyone that disagrees with you is an uneducated rube who has never left Philadelphia.

[1487]

Originally Posted by br323206

I showed you an actual picture of an actual disgusting alley in Melbourne. There are lots more. They've transformed some of their alleys and that's great. The ironic thing is that I actually saw an article awhile back that cited some of Philadelphia's awesome alleys like Camac and Quince as inspiration for Melbourne's efforts.

Bottom line: You think the existence of dumpster alleys is a travesty. I think it would be great to transform some of them into something more inviting but I really don't think it's that big of deal. I also don't think our situation is any worse than most cities I've visited or studied. We disagree and that's ok. The problem people have with you is that you seem to think that anyone that disagrees with you is an uneducated rube who has never left Philadelphia.

He provided no concrete solutions or suggestions, he basically said "search the internet and you will find plenty of solutions from superior cities, but I don't have time to actually document these solutions for you idiots". Everyone can agree these tiny alleys with dumpsters aren't all that appealing. What I'm not seeing is much in the way of solutions. Aside from Sansom most people barely notice these trash alleys unless some of that stinky trash juice happens to be oozing out of the alley.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by br323206

I think it would be great to transform some of them into something more inviting but I really don't think it's that big of deal. I also don't think our situation is any worse than most cities I've visited or studied.

I agree, Philly is a good city, dirty commercial alleys notwithstanding. And this is not a big deal.

The status quo is OK, good enough for now at least. True, our situation is not significantly worse than many other cities. But these are typically smaller cities, ho-hum places to which it is actually pretty sad that Philly should compare itself.

Dynamic cities - many of our peer cities, size-wise at least - cities where there is a striving on many fronts to shine, e.g. Melbourne - just find ways to do things better in so many ways. Over time, those cities separate from the pack. There is a mindset of possibility that is sadly more feeble here, in part, I believe, because the decision makers in many of those places are typically better traveled and have more cosmopolitan worldview than the parochially-minded decision makers here. This is fairly evident, for example, in a place like Melbourne.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by br323206

We must be visiting a different NY. There is trash everywhere in NY. But the dumpster comparison doesn't make sense. Most NY buildings don't back up to a publicly accessible street or alley. They can put the dumpsters behind their buildings and you'll never see them. Our street grid just doesn't allow that. To replicate NY we would need to close off alleys like Ionic and just have those alleys be dumpster areas.

The Manhattan grid doesn't have alleys, period. I vaguely recall seeing something about its planner thinking that alleys were unsanitary? (Obviously this doesn't apply to the parts of Manhattan that were built up before the grid was imposed.)

Philadelphia, on the other hand, has alleys and mews and other little streets. Lots and lots and lots of alleys and mews and other little streets. Philadelphia also historically had a long tradition of converting alleys into front-facing streets -- Sansom is the best-known example of this.

Even if you converted 1/4 of our service alleys into pedestrianized, commercialized "little streets", that would make the urban experience in the core much, much better. Recall here that the 1000 block of Ranstead is being turned into just that. And it'd be that quarter that people remember -- they'd forget about the other 3/4's that are still service alleys.

[Knight Hospitaller]

^ Do you have to ban yourself for City v. City? ;-)

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

Even if you converted 1/4 of our service alleys into pedestrianized, commercialized "little streets", that would make the urban experience in the core much, much better. Recall here that the 1000 block of Ranstead is being turned into just that. And it'd be that quarter that people remember -- they'd forget about the other 3/4's that are still service alleys.

You stated so much more succinctly what I would have liked to have been expressing. Thanks.

Many people in this city - even on this board, surprisingly - seem to have a an ingrained throw-away attitude toward our commercial side streets that prevents them from seeing how much potential these little streets have, and from seeing why this is so obvious based on the examples of cities where what you describe has been achieved.

Our commercial side streets generally suck because we let them suck, not generally because of any intrinsic physical reason. One such reason that was cited earlier was "of course these street are horrible because the backs of buildings face them; they can't possibly be nice given that fact". While in certain specific cases that may be true, it is not and need not be true all or even much of the time - again, as we have seen in the examples of other cities.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

^ Do you have to ban yourself for City v. City? ;-)

Gaaaah! Hey man, not C v. C at all. Someone earlier made a casual remark like "I'm all for improving the streetscape, but we need our dumpster alleys for dumpsters".

That's not far from saying "I'm all for pedestrian-oriented streets and cutting back on parking lots, but hey, we still need parking lots for our cars". Probably the better way to think about it is: we need to think out better, but reasonably practical ways to handle parking so that we can have a better urban environment and more lively streetscape; likewise, we probably need to think about better ways to manage dumpsters and commercial garbage storage for exactly the same reason.

The "dumpster alleys are really only for dumpsters" line of thinking may be flawed, given examples of comparable cities where this has been proven to be the case. Our commercial side streets have tons of potential, but we need to look at other cities to understand that because you'd never know just using Philly for inspiration, given our generally dismissive attitude toward commercial side streets here.

[eixample]

The property at 1520 Chestnut, the former dollar store, is not one that fronts onto one street and it is also is a sizeable property so it is different than some other properties around center city where a dumpster on the street is the only feasible alternative. Is it that unrealistic that they should have some sort of trash room in the rear where they store the dumpster except when it is loaded and unloaded? Or how about the dumpster resides on the street instead of the sidewalk and takes up a parking spot instead of walking space? I don't advocate getting rid of every dumpster alley, I just want to live in a world where the sanitation department of l&i or streets or whoever does more to reduce dumpsters and sidewalk obstructions on pedestrian streets like Sansom.

[Plokoon11]

Dumpster talk the new version of Wendys lol

[1487]

Originally Posted by eixample

The property at 1520 Chestnut, the former dollar store, is not one that fronts onto one street and it is also is a sizeable property so it is different than some other properties around center city where a dumpster on the street is the only feasible alternative. Is it that unrealistic that they should have some sort of trash room in the rear where they store the dumpster except when it is loaded and unloaded? Or how about the dumpster resides on the street instead of the sidewalk and takes up a parking spot instead of walking space? I don't advocate getting rid of every dumpster alley, I just want to live in a world where the sanitation department of l&i or streets or whoever does more to reduce dumpsters and sidewalk obstructions on pedestrian streets like Sansom.

without some sort of ordinance and change in the rules they cannot leave their dumpster in a parking spot on a street. I'm sure PPA wouldn't be too thrilled with the idea of giving up entire blocks of metered parking for dumpsters. I'm not even sure that is really an improvement over what you have today.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

WTF are you talking about?

NY is even worse than here. There are no dumpsters because there are no alleys. Instead, the trash gets PILED high in translucent bags that are thrown on the sidewalks in front of buildings EVERY SINGLE NIGHT.

I work on Spring Street in Soho. After 5PM every night the block my office building is on is literally a wall of trash bags. Most around it are as well.

This is not an exaggeration. On the plus side, you can pretend to be in an action movie as you run through the garbage canyon and jump over the countless streams of dog piss running down the sidewalk.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

I agree, Philly is a good city, dirty commercial alleys notwithstanding. And this is not a big deal.

The status quo is OK, good enough for now at least. True, our situation is not significantly worse than many other cities. But these are typically smaller cities, ho-hum places to which it is actually pretty sad that Philly should compare itself.

Dynamic cities - many of our peer cities, size-wise at least - cities where there is a striving on many fronts to shine, e.g. Melbourne - just find ways to do things better in so many ways. Over time, those cities separate from the pack. There is a mindset of possibility that is sadly more feeble here, in part, I believe, because the decision makers in many of those places are typically better traveled and have more cosmopolitan worldview than the parochially-minded decision makers here. This is fairly evident, for example, in a place like Melbourne.

Have you been to Melbourne before?

It's entirely Ho hum in a lot of ways. I was just there for a week in January. Most of it's liveliest bits are actually "suburbs" (at least by Australian standards as they aren't in the city proper) but for a major cosmopolitan city (by Australian standards) I found it to be a bit of a let down.

After 10PM the city is basically a ghost town.

[1487]

article about the structural engineering firm behind 10 hi rise projects in Philly.

http://philly.curbed.com/2016/6/9/11886394/interview-kirk-harman-the-harman-group

[McBane]

Who the eff really cares that Iconic Street is lined with dumpsters? Shouldn't we worry about improving the pedestrian experience on our non-alley streets first before worrying about hidden alleyways? It's not as if Center City is devoid of surface lots, vacant shops, wig stores, parking garages, etc.

[TempleGuy1000]

One Franklin Plaza well underway

[summersm343]

Philadelphia-to-Cuba flights could start this fall

Flights between Philadelphia and Cuba could begin later this year.

The federal Department of Transportation said Friday that it had approved six airlines to begin flights between the United States and Cuba.

The trips would be between Cuba and five U.S. airports: Philadelphia, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Chicago and Minneapolis/St. Paul.

The airlines approved for the flights are American Airlines, Frontier Airlines, JetBlue Airways, Silver Airways, Southwest Airlines, and Sun Country Airlines.

They will fly to nine Cuban cities: Camagüey, Cayo Coco, Cayo Largo, Cienfuegos, Holguín, Manzanillo, Matanzas, Santa Clara, and Santiago de Cuba.

The flights to and from Philadelphia will be on Frontier, which applied in March to operate weekly trips between the city and Cuba.

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/business/tr...start_this_fall.html#gyqR8dB8EV5THbdc.99

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Philadelphia-to-Cuba flights could start this fall



Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/business/tr...start_this_fall.html#gyqR8dB8EV5THbdc.99

Great. With Frontier, you get that Third World experience before you even arrive in Cuba!

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Great. With Frontier, you get that Third World experience before you even arrive in Cuba!

Knight, as has been alluded to by another poster here, you could use a dose of third world reality.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

Knight, as has been alluded to by another poster here, you could use a dose of third world reality.

Funny, but you'd be surprised what I've seen. And, of course, we all have to live with Mayor Kenney and City Council. Now for that Scotch....