DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

The people who say they want more retail in the city remind me of the people who say they want to buy "American". It sounds good, but they rarely support it and end up voting with her pocketbook for something slightly less. With retail commercial rates of >$35 a foot in Denver right now, what can theoretically go in these "retail" locations and be successful?

All of the same stores that make it work in Cherry Creek Mall.

Mostly what people want is an opportunity to buy household goods at not-Walgreens prices, without driving to Glendale to do it. Most of those types of tenants aren't going into an existing space that would charge those rates. They'd need new-built or custom-built space. I highly doubt the King Soopers at 20th and Chestnut is paying >$35 a foot.

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

The people who say they want more retail in the city remind me of the people who say they want to buy "American". It sounds good, but they rarely support it and end up voting with her pocketbook for something slightly less. With retail commercial rates of >$35 a foot in Denver right now, what can theoretically go in these "retail" locations and be successful?

I have no idea how you arrive at that conclusion. It seems like the retail we do have is pretty well supported. The problem is that there is N.O.T.H.I.N.G downtown unless you're really into H&M. Housewares? Nothing. Cleaning Supplies? Mostly nothing unless you want to get gouged at Walgreens. King Soopers sort of helps if you're on that side of Downtown but for most of us our choice is to drive to Cherry Creek or just order it off of Amazon (which is what my wife and I do).

I would love the chance to support some downtown retail, but for a reason I'll never understand Denver doesn't rank it.

[CharlesCO]

What's the status of getting a City Target on 16th Street Mall? I thought there were rumblings of one coming from what I've read on here. I think that would alleviate a lot of the problems described. I don't think we'll ever see a downtown Bloomingdale's or a Westfield development, but Cherry Creek has developed into a dense retail environment, though a City Target downtown seems well within reach.

[Fritzdude]

Originally Posted by enjo13

I have no idea how you arrive at that conclusion. It seems like the retail we do have is pretty well supported. The problem is that there is N.O.T.H.I.N.G downtown unless you're really into H&M. Housewares? Nothing. Cleaning Supplies? Mostly nothing unless you want to get gouged at Walgreens. King Soopers sort of helps if you're on that side of Downtown but for most of us our choice is to drive to Cherry Creek or just order it off of Amazon (which is what my wife and I do).

I would love the chance to support some downtown retail, but for a reason I'll never understand Denver doesn't rank it.

You have no idea how I come to that conclusion, yet you obviously see that there is nothing available..? The reason is that it's prohibitively expensive to be a retailer in Denver and people don't support it enough to keep them in business. Otherwise, you would see more retail options, which is how I draw my conclusions. Amazon doesn't have to pay the high overhead in their business model so they have the advantage over brick and mortar. We don't get what we value in a city, we get what we are willing to pay for it.

[lumos]

[QUOTE=RyanD;7440874]It's going up... Just very slowly. IIRC, they're phasing it out as far as opening goes between the towers.

I believe that the sequencing has the first residential tower open in April 2017, Whole 'do-you-want-kale-with-that' foods in September 2017 and the recalcitrant final tower not opening until an amazing two years from now in spring 2018.

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

Otherwise, you would see more retail options, which is how I draw my conclusions.

Which I don't think is a fair conclusion to draw.

From conversations I've had with people in the know, there are two big issues facing Downtown. One is the presence of major retail anchors (think Target). The Pavilions is about the only sort of anchoring presence downtown. The other big issue is the lack of adequate retail space. Apparently there are major issues with much of the space on 16th.

I'm optimistic for the developing area around Union Station. Whole Foods is traditionally a retail anchor, so that opening should give a real shot in the arm to that area. With all of the new buildings and their modern retail spaces hopefully we'll see something of a renaissance in that area.

[Fritzdude]

Originally Posted by enjo13

Which I don't think is a fair conclusion to draw.

From conversations I've had with people in the know, there are two big issues facing Downtown. One is the presence of major retail anchors (think Target). The Pavilions is about the only sort of anchoring presence downtown. The other big issue is the lack of adequate retail space. Apparently there are major issues with much of the space on 16th.

I'm optimistic for the developing area around Union Station. Whole Foods is traditionally a retail anchor, so that opening should give a real shot in the arm to that area. With all of the new buildings and their modern retail spaces hopefully we'll see something of a renaissance in that area.

I would think that the city of Denver would want to promote retail sales - considering that they recoup the sales taxes that accompany the sales. It would seem that an incentive to retailers - like credit toward that can be applied to lease rates would be helpful. Or, even waiving the fees on retail licenses, etc.. I agree that the internet has changed the game on selling merchandise.

[Denver Dweller]

http://www.aurorasentinel.com/news/fitzs...ing-hotels-place-bioscience-golf-course/

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Denver Dweller

Fitzsimons Redevelopment Authority in Aurora eyes housing, hotels in place of bioscie
http://www.aurorasentinel.com/news/fitzs...ing-hotels-place-bioscience-golf-course/

It's a smart move and I'm not the least bit surprised.

Back in 1998 when Fitz medical was conceived biotech was a growing area for investment. As I recall in the 1st half of the last decade biotech was a hot topic for investment by the Venture Capital community. Since Colorado had notable success and a decent presence in the sector it was natural to try and nurture it as an industry cluster. But that was then...

So much has changed. VC capital stopped chasing bioscience in favor of tech software. That's not to say there isn't still some investment but it's a trickle in comparison. Unfortunately, Colorado seems to have lost much of its bioscience bona fides. In 2014 Amgen decided to close its Boulder County facilities. This year Medtronic will start a process of closing their Boulder County facilities. Baxter International has announced the closing of their Douglas Co. facilities. Louisville biotech GlobeImmune's hot prospect for cancer treatment didn't pass muster and is now expected to die.

So much for that would-be industry cluster. They still see some need for startups and R&D sites at Fitz but they've gotten more efficient in how they use space. There's also a need for ancillary services for the campus. But it was time for a new reality-based vision.

When RTD moved the light rail line from Montview Boulevard north to Fitzsimons Parkway it opened up a whole new opportunity for TOD. And so it goes.

[Scottk]

Originally Posted by enjo13

From conversations I've had with people in the know, there are two big issues facing Downtown. One is the presence of major retail anchors (think Target). The Pavilions is about the only sort of anchoring presence downtown. The other big issue is the lack of adequate retail space. Apparently there are major issues with much of the space on 16th.

I'm optimistic for the developing area around Union Station. Whole Foods is traditionally a retail anchor, so that opening should give a real shot in the arm to that area. With all of the new buildings and their modern retail spaces hopefully we'll see something of a renaissance in that area.

I hate to bring it up but I think the massive homeless / transient presence is a huge issue for retail along 16th. I think it is criminal that we do not have some sort of high end retail stores downtown, but I suppose a Ralph Lauren store wouldn't want crazy hobos in front of the store.

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by Scottk

I hate to bring it up but I think the massive homeless / transient presence is a huge issue for retail along 16th. I think it is criminal that we do not have some sort of high end retail stores downtown, but I suppose a Ralph Lauren store wouldn't want crazy hobos in front of the store.

They don't seem to care in literally any other city that has urban retail anywhere around the world. I think a big factor in why we haven't seen a ton of new, hip retail along the mall is because of the lack of new retail-friendly construction along the mall, not because it is "scary". (I think anyone who has stepped around a naked sidewalk pooper in Union Square or ignored a screamer on 5th avenue would agree.)

I think the issue is actually that large-format or high-end retailers no longer (or very, very rarely outside of the very largest of A-level markets) build their own stand-alone stores because of cost. The Pavilions has been pretty successful, even to the point of bringing stores like H&M and Uniqlo to Colorado before any other "safer" location because they offer large retail spots pre-built with infrastructure. It is a more successful version of what the Tabor Center tried to be (before they realized that street signage and anchor stores were important.) Every building built on the mall in the last 20 years has better retail and food stores than the older buildings, and I'm sure whatever goes in at Market Street Station will have great stores too.

Because of the price of land and construction Target or any other retailer would probably wait until a building is built with a spot for them and retail is not going to magically appear just because you have foot traffic and a dilapidated old building that could be converted. No matter how many people pass by or where you redirect the buses.

[trubador]

Originally Posted by Scottk

I hate to bring it up but I think the massive homeless / transient presence is a huge issue for retail along 16th. I think it is criminal that we do not have some sort of high end retail stores downtown, but I suppose a Ralph Lauren store wouldn't want crazy hobos in front of the store.

Is it any different than downtown Seattle, which has both high end retailers and an abundance of homelessness in the downtown area?

[TakeFive]

It's not so simple IMO. There are homeless and then there are homeless and then there are punks. Additionally I like to remind that "we" are all guys. The women of our world have a whole different visceral reaction. They may have more empathy in principle but also have a much more sensitive security antenna. Anybody recall the statistics in spending profiles for each sex?

[comoneymaker]

I don't know why they just wouldn't building in the tons of parking around it instead.

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_29890014/historic-tavern-uptown-building-could-be-saved-from

[Stonemans_rowJ]

Originally Posted by Scottk

I hate to bring it up but I think the massive homeless / transient presence is a huge issue for retail along 16th. I think it is criminal that we do not have some sort of high end retail stores downtown, but I suppose a Ralph Lauren store wouldn't want crazy hobos in front of the store.

The CC mall and retailers in general are struggling.

Funny you mention RL...they are leaving Denver for the same reason Saks left.

[RyanD]

I truly love this project. Great materials, great form, perfect for Union Station:

Union Tower West

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by comoneymaker

I don't know why they just wouldn't building in the tons of parking around it instead.

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_29890014/historic-tavern-uptown-building-could-be-saved-from

That is what they are doing.

[Dogpatch]

I couldn't agree more, Ryan. I really love the curtain wall on this one. It's refreshing to see alternating glass colors formed into a linear pattern rather than being sporadicly placed (which seems to be a thing lately).

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Dogpatch

I couldn't agree more, Ryan. I really love the curtain wall on this one. It's refreshing to see alternating glass colors formed into a linear pattern rather than being sporadicly placed (which seems to be a thing lately).

I recall a bit of angst with the early renderings but yes it's looking good. Portman Holdings so not surprising.

[corey]

The sapphire blue glass on Union Tower West is mesmerizing. It will be stunner for sure.