DENVER | Main Development Thread #6 - Page 409

TakeFive · #**8161** Posted **May 12, 2016, 5:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

On another note, checking out the article from that Platte St. project led me to these architects.

http://www.openstudioarchitecture.com

Who have some interesting proposals on their site, ahh, what could have been....

TakeFive · #**8162** Posted **May 12, 2016, 6:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

This will be a welcome addition to Platte Street. Pays homage with aesthetic cues to the historical buildings on the street and boxes in the bridge. It also helps to block the ambient noise from the highway. I was hanging around there yesterday and noticed how little noise I could hear from the roaring traffic just a few hundred feet away.

That's pretty interesting, especially about the noise.

Ken has a post up with additional renders and his usual nice detail at Denver Infill.

wong21fr · #**8163** Posted **May 12, 2016, 7:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

On another note, checking out the article from that Platte St. project led me to these architects.

http://www.openstudioarchitecture.com

Who have some interesting proposals on their site, ahh, what could have been....

You know what's most interesting?

Quote:

15th and California site, the Fontius block 162.

That the building across the 16th St Mall (the Cottrell's building) looks like a a — Target- a building that NAI Shames Makovsky just purchased and we all know that they have been most closely tied with trying to get a Target downtown.

RyanD · #**8164** Posted **May 12, 2016, 8:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

You know what's most interesting?

That the building across the 16th St Mall (the Cottrell's building) looks like a a — Target- a building that NAI Shames Makovsky just purchased and we all know that they have been most closely tied with trying to get a Target downtown.

Maybe he's going to do a fliparoo on us. Under promise over deliver?

bunt_q · #**8165** Posted **May 12, 2016, 8:12 PM**

Yeah, because over-delivering happens all the time in Denver. Ha.

wong21fr · #**8166** Posted **May 12, 2016, 8:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanD

Maybe he's going to do a fliparoo on us. Under promise over deliver?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Yeah, because over-delivering happens all the time in Denver. Ha.

Nah, you just split the project up into two different ones and go value engineered on both of them. Big, fancy Target (80K sq ft plus) with a massive vertical development component? Gone! Tiny, squat Target (20K-30K sq ft) that does happen? Success!

jhwk · #**8167** Posted **May 12, 2016, 10:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Big, fancy Target (80K sq ft plus) with a massive vertical development component? Gone! Tiny, squat Target (20K-30K sq ft) that does happen? Success!

For a long time a Target in the city meant that you were real urban environment. I assume that's why it was talked about so much in Denver development circles. Now I can't see it happening in Denver - the entire company is headed down the drain as the traditional retail industry stagnates.

I guess I'm one of those "Millennials" - so why should I go to Target when if I plan ahead, I can get anything I want with two day Prime shipping from Amazon delivered to my door? Since Prime, I find myself visiting Target maybe once every 2-3 months to pick up things that I need faster than Amazon can deliver.

bunt_q · #**8168** Posted **May 12, 2016, 11:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhwk

I guess I'm one of those "Millennials" - so why should I go to Target when if I plan ahead, I can get anything I want with two day Prime shipping from Amazon delivered to my door? Since Prime, I find myself visiting Target maybe once every 2-3 months to pick up things that I need faster than Amazon can deliver.

So that's why millennials smell. 2-day delays on their deodorant orders.

TakeFive · #**8169** Posted **May 13, 2016, 12:02 AM**

^

/smh

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhwk

I guess I'm one of those "Millennials" - so why should I go to Target when if I plan ahead, I can get anything I want with two day Prime shipping from Amazon delivered to my door? Since Prime, I find myself visiting Target maybe once every 2-3 months to pick up things that I need faster than Amazon can deliver.

The good news is that's no longer bad news. Amazon finally started collecting and remitting sales taxes in Colorado.

COtoOC · #**8170** Posted **May 13, 2016, 2:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhwk

For a long time a Target in the city meant that you were real urban environment. I assume that's why it was talked about so much in Denver development circles. Now I can't see it happening in Denver - the entire company is headed down the drain as the traditional retail industry stagnates.

I guess I'm one of those "Millennials" - so why should I go to Target when if I plan ahead, I can get anything I want with two day Prime shipping from Amazon delivered to my door? Since Prime, I find myself visiting Target maybe once every 2-3 months to pick up things that I need faster than Amazon can deliver.

I don't see Target going down the drain. When you have kids (as I do), it's impossible to have all the — you need sent to your house from Amazon. We hit target at least twice a week. Maybe if I were single and had all the spare time single people have to go online and plan exactly what I need for the next month and order it, that might work. But for a family, what you need is too much of a moving target. Plus we need lots of groceries every week.

bunt_q · #**8171** Posted **May 13, 2016, 2:56 PM**

Millennials don't do families. If you are in that age bracket and have a family, well, that's weird... accident? And you don't count.

Cirrus · #**8172** Posted **May 13, 2016, 3:13 PM**

Eh, there will always be a place for a general store, even post Amazon. But I suspect the format will change to something smaller, more grocery store sized instead of behemoth, focusing on merchandise that's either important to have same-day (TP!) or important to see in person (housewares), and less on having entire aisles full of generic no-hurry stuff like laundry detergent and white underwear. The future of department stores is a cross between Target and Walgreens, I think.

TakeFive · #**8173** Posted **May 13, 2016, 4:14 PM**

I recently started following the market a bit to catch up on what's been going on. Couple of years ago I backed away from considering retail investments as I foresaw a secular change.

A lot of retail stocks are way down over the last six months. Traditional, especially higher price point teen retailers have declared BK or are struggling. Traditional, larger stores like Macy's etc are struggling. Looking at families with teens it seemed obvious that tech was becoming more important and eating up more of the family budget. Branded clothing has been the loser. Lower priced Fast Casual is still doing well as are discounters like TJ Max.

General purpose stores like Target, Costco, CVS, Home Depot and grocer Kroger are doing relatively well.

For urban centers I still see a role for Target but interestingly the smaller format stores have not done so well. It puts them in the same space as a Walgreens or Kroger etc stores. It looks like a store closer to 75,000 SF does better with a combination of everyday goods mixed with seasonal offerings and some electronics.

RyanD · #**8174** Posted **May 13, 2016, 4:45 PM**

Here's some Union Station infill for you guys...

Pivot gets some glass and...

... 1709 Chestnut is going to get a white tower crane!

TakeFive · #**8175** Posted **May 13, 2016, 5:01 PM**

Photo courtesy: Westword

"State of Downtown Denver in 2016: Great, and Getting Greater"
THURSDAY, MAY 12, 2016 by Patricia Calhoun - Westword

Quote:

"If we build it, they will come," said Downtown Denver Partnership CEO Tami Door at the 2016 State of Downtown briefing at the Hyatt Regency on May 10. "And they are coming." And coming, and coming, turning Denver's downtown into one of the most successful in the country —

"The numbers speak for themselves," Door said. "We are a growing city. We are aspiring to be something even greater than we are."

A relatively short, easy, fun read by Patricia, it includes a bit of retrospective.

Quote:

Some people in the crowd at the Hyatt Regency ballroom could remember when Denver didn't have a reputation as a great city. Back in 1983, a young Latino legislator named Federico Peña ran for Denver mayor with the slogan "Imagine a Great City" — and won in a very crowded field that included plenty of old-school candidates.

EngiNerd · #**8176** Posted **May 13, 2016, 6:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanD

Here's some Union Station infill for you guys...

Do you know, is the 3rd tower not going to be built until the other two are completed? Seems strange to not have started it yet.

RyanD · #**8177** Posted **May 13, 2016, 7:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

Do you know, is the 3rd tower not going to be built until the other two are completed? Seems strange to not have started it yet.

It's going up... Just very slowly. IIRC, they're phasing it out as far as opening goes between the towers.

February:

Today:

EngiNerd · #**8178** Posted **May 13, 2016, 7:29 PM**

Cool, thanks for the comparison.

COtoOC · #**8179** Posted **May 13, 2016, 9:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Eh, there will always be a place for a general store, even post Amazon. But I suspect the format will change to something smaller, more grocery store sized instead of behemoth, focusing on merchandise that's either important to have same-day (TP!) or important to see in person (housewares), and less on having entire aisles full of generic no-hurry stuff like laundry detergent and white underwear. The future of department stores is a cross between Target and Walgreens, I think.

On the positive side, the more — I order off Amazon, the busier I keep the Post Office

They need the work...

Fritzdude · #**8180** Posted **May 13, 2016, 10:59 PM**

The people who say they want more retail in the city remind me of the people who say they want to buy "American". It sounds good, but they rarely support it and end up voting with her pocketbook for something slightly less. With retail commercial rates of >$35 a foot in Denver right now, what can theoretically go in these "retail" locations and be successful?