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  #5081  
Old Posted May 13, 2016, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I am trying to think of how many all-Canadian pro soccer leagues have flopped in the past three decades...
I'd still like to see one or two more Canadian teams in the NASL before we try for a Canadian domestic league, if we even want to go that route.

As well, i'd like to see more teams added to the Canadian Championship. Perhaps the winners of the Ontario and Quebec leagues could play the NASL teams in the qualification round to add another qualifying layer to the cup. Alternatively if it reached 8 teams they could do a group stage format with the top two teams from each going to Semifinals similar to many Champions Leagues formats. If schedule and travel constraints aren't too crazy play each team home and away. It would be less expensive than operating a full league but still provide for some rivalry and local interest development.

Example:

Group A
Toronto FC
Vancouver Whitecaps
Ottawa FC
Qualifier

Group B
Montreal Impact
Edmonton FC
Qualifier
Qualifier
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  #5082  
Old Posted May 13, 2016, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I am trying to think of how many all-Canadian pro soccer leagues have flopped in the past three decades...
Easy. All of them.
But, if the people behind the proposed Canadian Premier League think they can make it work, more power to them.
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  #5083  
Old Posted May 13, 2016, 5:59 PM
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I mean, if you're a soccer fan in those cities (Ottawa, Edmonton) is Fort Lauderdale or Oklahoma City really that dazzling in relation to Calgary or Hamilton?

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  #5084  
Old Posted May 13, 2016, 6:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer!
Haha, touché.

Seriously though, I get that MLS now has a glam factor that CPL can't touch but the NASL is basically like North American soccer's ECHL (even though it's technically tier two and not tier three as with the E). Still pro but low level with few recognizable names even on the home side.
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  #5085  
Old Posted May 13, 2016, 6:44 PM
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Haha, touché.

Seriously though, I get that MLS now has a glam factor that CPL can't touch but the NASL is basically like North American soccer's ECHL (even though it's technically tier two and not tier three as with the E). Still pro but low level with few recognizable names even on the home side.
Well...

http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/show...postcount=4326
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  #5086  
Old Posted May 13, 2016, 6:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Edmonton may be tempted due to travel and cost but Ottawa's been doing very well in the NASL and they'd be foolish to leave that before the CPL proves it's a viable league of, at least, equal footing.

Calgary Foothills and WSA Winnipeg should be easy draws in those cities, it has to be said. I think there's the Victoria Highlanders capable as well? I'm just trying to find existing clubs that could transition into becoming CPL teams.
Is it once again a case of the CSA and investors not paying attention to the realities of the sport in the country? We're finally starting to establish a foothold and it is taking place at the development level (e.g. Foothills, Thunder Bay, Victoria and Winnipeg). So, why not start the league at the intersection of success and prestige?

Basically, ask cities like Kelowna, Red Deer, Regina, Hamilton and Halifax to join regional development leagues (i.e. amateur to semi-pro) instead of asking Edmonton, Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver to join a national professional league. We're barely walking, why try to sprint?
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  #5087  
Old Posted May 13, 2016, 7:26 PM
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^Agreed. I think this needs to start lower level, but soccer has never had more visibility and interest in my community than right now. Almost no one played soccer when I was a kid in comparison to now.

I am not sure how supported a team in Regina would be. I'd love to see a team in the new stadium which I believe is what CPL would like too, but I just don't know given the overlap with the CFL and the size of the market if it stands a chance of ever drawing more than 5,000 fans. I'd love to see average attendances around 15,000, but I don't think the economics in Regina makes that work. I hope Regina would prove me wrong on that, but Regina's economics are pretty poor for supporting this.
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  #5088  
Old Posted May 13, 2016, 7:39 PM
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^ I doubt that a CPL soccer team would be a massive presence on the Regina sports scene, but I'd imagine there are enough soccer players, immigrants with a high level of interest in soccer and perhaps just garden variety Canadian soccer fans to sustain a team. I don't think it would take that much to keep a CPL team afloat, even 3 or 4 thousand fans a game might do it.
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  #5089  
Old Posted May 13, 2016, 7:44 PM
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Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes View Post
I am not sure how supported a team in Regina would be. I'd love to see a team in the new stadium which I believe is what CPL would like too, but I just don't know given the overlap with the CFL and the size of the market if it stands a chance of ever drawing more than 5,000 fans. I'd love to see average attendances around 15,000, but I don't think the economics in Regina makes that work. I hope Regina would prove me wrong on that, but Regina's economics are pretty poor for supporting this.
I'd rather have a strong amateur league than a floundering professional league. An amateur/semi-pro club in Regina consistently drawing crowds of 5,000 would be able to grow roots in the community and build a solid foundation from which they could launch onto the next level. How much could a professional club that is desperately trying to stay afloat hope to accomplish?

What's going to have more of an impact on player development in Canada: professional clubs based in every CFL city but most struggle to survive or high performance amateur clubs in every WHL city and most are financially stable?

It's been about 15 years since the Calgary Storm prematurely jumped from the PDL to the A-League. Could imagine the position the Storm would be in if they had stayed in the PDL for the last 15 years? Even 5 or 10 years.
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  #5090  
Old Posted May 13, 2016, 8:00 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ I doubt that a CPL soccer team would be a massive presence on the Regina sports scene, but I'd imagine there are enough soccer players, immigrants with a high level of interest in soccer and perhaps just garden variety Canadian soccer fans to sustain a team. I don't think it would take that much to keep a CPL team afloat, even 3 or 4 thousand fans a game might do it.
Apparently in Edmonton and Ottawa it is doing it. 2,500 and 5,000 respectively average attendance last year for those two, but Regina has a sixth the population to support that. Again, I'd love to proven wrong because I think I could find the money to go to a couple of games, but that's about all the economics I can afford. Tickets need to be cheap. Travel in Canada is expensive. The two things don't equate well in a small market with limited corporate sponsorship opportunities. Distances and costs involved to play other teams are the biggest impediment Canada has to developing a domestic league.
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  #5091  
Old Posted May 14, 2016, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Riise View Post
I'd rather have a strong amateur league than a floundering professional league. An amateur/semi-pro club in Regina consistently drawing crowds of 5,000 would be able to grow roots in the community and build a solid foundation from which they could launch onto the next level. How much could a professional club that is desperately trying to stay afloat hope to accomplish?

What's going to have more of an impact on player development in Canada: professional clubs based in every CFL city but most struggle to survive or high performance amateur clubs in every WHL city and most are financially stable?

It's been about 15 years since the Calgary Storm prematurely jumped from the PDL to the A-League. Could imagine the position the Storm would be in if they had stayed in the PDL for the last 15 years? Even 5 or 10 years.
Nothing personal, but Regina does not even draw 5,000 for hockey much less expect them to draw 5,000 for soccer. Much bigger Edmonton averaged less than 2,900 in a better league. I think them drawing 2,500 would be pretty amazing.
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  #5092  
Old Posted May 16, 2016, 5:18 AM
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Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes View Post
Apparently in Edmonton and Ottawa it is doing it. 2,500 and 5,000 respectively average attendance last year for those two, but Regina has a sixth the population to support that. Again, I'd love to proven wrong because I think I could find the money to go to a couple of games, but that's about all the economics I can afford. Tickets need to be cheap. Travel in Canada is expensive. The two things don't equate well in a small market with limited corporate sponsorship opportunities. Distances and costs involved to play other teams are the biggest impediment Canada has to developing a domestic league.
The recipe for (pro)sports success in Saskatchewan seems to be grass-roots community support with a proven winning franchise, then the sky's the limit for attendance & merchandise triumph..

I could see Saskatchewan matching Edmonton & Ottawa combined attendance for a pro soccer franchise, much like The Saskatchewan Rush in Saskatoon have met & beat Edmonton's & Ottawa's combined attendance for Pro Lacrosse in each of those respective city's over the last decade.

http://thestarphoenix.com/sports/loc...crowd-of-15027

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2015/07/1...o-saskatchewan

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/ottawa-s-pr...folds-1.365050
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  #5093  
Old Posted May 16, 2016, 2:28 PM
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Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes View Post
Distances and costs involved to play other teams are the biggest impediment Canada has to developing a domestic league.
This is a reason why we need to embrace regional divisions, especially when it comes to amateur and semi-pro leagues. It's something that even Sir Alex Ferguson noted.


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Originally Posted by SaskScraper View Post
The recipe for (pro)sports success in Saskatchewan seems to be grass-roots community support with a proven winning franchise, then the sky's the limit for attendance & merchandise triumph.
I don't think that recipe is exclusive to Saskatchewan. Its use may be more prevalent in that Province at the moment but I believe it can and will work elsewhere.
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  #5094  
Old Posted May 16, 2016, 2:39 PM
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^ Saskatoon is an underserved market when it comes to pro sports (i.e. there is no competition), which makes it a lot easier for NLL to break through there as opposed to places like Ottawa/Edmonton.

Frankly I'm a bit surprised that Saskatoon swooned over some johnny come lately lacrosse team instead of rallying behind the hockey team it has had for decades. Speaking for myself, I'd far rather watch WHL hockey than lacrosse.
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  #5095  
Old Posted May 17, 2016, 1:38 AM
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^ Saskatoon is an underserved market when it comes to pro sports (i.e. there is no competition), which makes it a lot easier for NLL to break through there as opposed to places like Ottawa/Edmonton.

Frankly I'm a bit surprised that Saskatoon swooned over some johnny come lately lacrosse team instead of rallying behind the hockey team it has had for decades. Speaking for myself, I'd far rather watch WHL hockey than lacrosse.
Attendance at Saskatoon Blades games hasn't really changed much this year as compared to the last decade and since both the Rush and Blades play on different nights in the same coliseum, one doesn't really take away from the other.. and the Rush are a proven success which probably explains their 3rd place highest spectator attendance in league, beating places like Calgary, Vancouver & Toronto..

Oh.. if you've never seen a NLL lacrosse game before, you can watch it streaming for free after registering at:

http://nllplayoffs.neulion.com/#!home

playoff schedule is at:

http://www.oursportscentral.com/serv...-com/n-5140997
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  #5096  
Old Posted May 17, 2016, 9:16 AM
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Argos trying to bring back football culture to missed generations
Move to BMO enables Argos to engage younger customers via tailgates and the game-day experience.
Morgan Campbell Staff Reporter thestar.com May 16, 2016

Four weeks before the CFL regular season kicks off, the Toronto Argonauts’ brain trust has already drawn up its first blitz.

This one involves marketing.

In the lead-up to the Argos’ first season at BMO Field, the club plans to plaster the city with ads — on TV, radio, bus shelters and more — hoping to boost ticket sales to games at the team’s new home.

The ad campaign is part of a broader brand makeover aimed at making the team relevant again. Overtaking one of the city’s Big Three pro sports franchises might not be realistic, but Argos executives think a renewed marketing buzz could propel the club to a less-distant fourth place in local fans’ minds.

Outdoor ads are set appear this week in the neighbourhood surrounding BMO Field.

“It will show our players in a whole new way,” Argos president Michael Copeland said during a conference call Monday. “It will really re-ignite the conversation around Argos football.”

It’s nearly impossible for the club to have a smaller footprint than they had last season, when the Pan Am Games kept the Argos away from their home field until August. Later in the season, Blue Jays playoff games at the Rogers Centre forced the Argos to play “home” games in Hamilton and Ottawa.

The team’s absence from its home stadium had a drag on attendance. The Argos averaged 12,430 at home games last season, a figure that includes the sparse crowds at the out-of-market games the team hosted.

The Star commissioned a poll late last year that found only two per cent of sports fans in Toronto listed the Argos as their primary rooting interest, tying them with Toronto FC but placing them well behind the Jays, Raptors and Leafs.

Not a single respondent between 18 and 34 identified as an Argos fan, but the club is confident the re-brand and move to BMO will help re-engage younger fans who have avoided home games at the cavernous Rogers Centre.

Argos executive Sara Moore says the club conducted extensive market research before embarking on its marketing program. She says younger adults routinely reported being open to embracing the Argos if the club could deliver an engaging game-day experience.

Specifically, they wanted to tailgate.

“In this market there never really has been great football culture,” says Moore, the Argos’ senior vice-president of business operations. “There are a couple generations here that haven’t been immersed in what is the best game-day experience . . . That’s been missing and that is everything we’re creating and investing in.”

To craft a campaign that speaks to the cherished 18-to-34 demographic, the club enlisted Bensimon Byrne, the same Toronto-based ad agency that oversaw the CFL’s re-brand late last year.

That movement kicked off during Grey Cup week with “What We’re Made Of,” a commercial that stresses the league’s national appeal and local flavour. In Calgary, a man riding a white horse holds a Stampeders flag overhead, while in the next shot a beefy offensive lineman-type grips a rope and pulls a tractor across a flat stretch of Saskatchewan highway.

One shot features the Argos sprinting onto their home field, and another features longtime receiver Chad Owens flexing his muscles for the camera.

But Owens, one of the club’s most recognizable players, signed with Hamilton this winter, depriving the club of a familiar, marketable face.

Similarly, Moore acknowledges re-branding risks the equity a company has built among loyal fans but says the gamble is minimal here because previous Argos regimes haven’t invested in cultivating younger fans.

“The fans we have now didn’t become fans at 55,” Moore said. “We got them when they were young. The problem is the Argos haven’t gone back to that well and captured more of those 20-somethings.”
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  #5097  
Old Posted May 17, 2016, 9:33 AM
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Argonauts set to unveil new branding
Kirk Penton, Winnipeg Sun May 16, 2016

Toronto is about to blanketed in all things Argonauts.

Now that the Boatmen are under new ownership and they’re moving to BMO Field this season after two depressing decades at Rogers Centre, the team is about to unleash a marketing campaign that will re-brand the Double Blue and signify a brand new beginning for North America’s oldest pro franchise.

The new message will hit the 6ix next week, and there will be Argos everywhere you look and listen: TV, radio, patios, subway stations, billboards. You name it, and it’ll have an Argos ad on it. The franchise hired the Bensimon Byrne marketing company to tackle the project.

“This is a real effort to bring the Argonauts brand out to the forefront and return it to the stature that it has experienced previously,” Argos president Michael Copeland said Monday, adding it will be a brand campaign “the likes of which this city hasn’t seen for probably a couple decades.”

The team, which is now owned by Bell and Larry Tanenbaum, will be pulling out all the stops to attract new and old fans alike. The one attraction the Boatmen are really banking on is tailgating, which will be allowed in areas around BMO Field this season.

The only catch is it isn’t BYOB due to Ontario liquor laws. Beer will be sold at “very fair prices,” according to Copeland, and patrons are allowed to bring their own food and barbecues. There will be areas for games of catch and other attractions.

Copeland and his team are doing everything they can to put the fun back in Argos football.

“We can’t just rest on the stadium alone,” Copeland said. “While it is going to be spectacular, it’s everything we’re doing around the stadium that’s really going to augment it for us this year. And that begins with tailgating.”

Copeland wouldn’t get into specifics about season ticket sales, saying the only thing the organization is worried about this year is selling out all 26,000 seats for all nine home games.

“We went into this year focused on selling out our games, so that’s all we’re focused on,” Copeland said. “We like where we are. We’ve had a really good start to the year. We’ve exceeded the team’s levels from last year quite a bit, and once our single game tickets go on sale June 1 we’re going to start seeing some sellouts.

“This organization is only going to aim to be No. 1 in all categories, and that means selling out our building. We’re not focused on anything less than that. So we haven’t set targets other than that.”

They should get some help in the summer, as the Argos will have two home games during the Canadian National Exhibition. Having a ticket to the Argos games on Aug. 20 against Edmonton or Aug. 31 versus B.C. will also get you into the CNE.

“The grounds will be alive in those games,” Copeland said, “and that brings something just a little bit more special to our season this year.”

Almost forgotten in all the hoopla surrounding the team’s off-season sale and move is the actual squad itself, the leader of which isn’t sure how all the changes will affect his troops. It will definitely be better than the last few years, when Rogers Centre treated them terribly and forced them to play home games on the road or go long stretches without a contest actually in Toronto.

“It’s really hard to say,” head coach Scott Milanovich said. “All I can go on is what I’ve seen so far, and it’s things like Michael and his staff being down at mini-camp and at the draft. I’m careful to be critical of what we were in the past, but I will say this: It seems to be a much more cohesive unit with everybody pulling in the same direction, and that’s what everybody wants in an organization, whether it’s football or the Winnipeg Sun or whatever your case may be.

“We’re all really excited. We’re excited about BMO. Again, I’m only a couple months into this with our new ownership, our new president and all those things, but it feels really good so far. That’s about all I can tell you at this point.”
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  #5098  
Old Posted May 17, 2016, 11:28 PM
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Pretty exciting for the CFL this year. It's going to be one of the best seasons ever. The Argos are going to have so much more exposure. Awesome their expectations are to have sellouts for every game. It's ironic that Rogers Toronto sports talk tried to bash the league this morning. Good on the Argos and their massive marketing campaign.
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  #5099  
Old Posted May 17, 2016, 11:39 PM
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Pretty exciting for the CFL this year. It's going to be one of the best seasons ever. The Argos are going to have so much more exposure. Awesome their expectations are to have sellouts for every game. It's ironic that Rogers Toronto sports talk tried to bash the league this morning. Good on the Argos and their massive marketing campaign.
Didn't feel very ironic to me... Just business as usual...
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  #5100  
Old Posted May 18, 2016, 6:05 PM
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Didn't feel very ironic to me... Just business as usual...
Yea true... Equate this to a Moscow radio host bashing the KHL and Moscow Dynamo, saying things like the KHL is bush, ask 100 players in the KHL if they'd rather play in the NHL what the answer would be, etc. Do you think that would ever happen?

You'd think that being the largest media market in Canada they'd have a little more pride for both a Toronto and Canadian institution. It's actions like this that, to me, separate Toronto from the rest of this country, especially the West.
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