Sports in Canadian culture

[elly63]

Originally Posted by esquire

Rogers is basically Harold Ballard with more corporate PR spin.

Did Harold Ballard have a 24/7 non stop media machine pouring out content to the exclusion of others not included in the empire. Don't think so. It's a totally different world and one that many young people today totally don't have a clue to how different things were, they assume life and attitudes have always been like they are today. Things have just changed so much. Life in the 70s/80s wasn't far removed from the 50s. With the advent of modern communications and general technologies, those times are light years away.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by elly63

Is there a reason I would like to see the Marlies play the Habs?

If organic, grassroots, community support for our sports teams were a tenth of what European football has, and if we had an additional season-long tournament (with fewer games, of course) for a second cup that was equally as prestigious as the Stanley Cup, then a game between the Marlies and the Habs would be a scintillating affair. The outcome would probably be predictable, though it would still be worth watching, as upsets do happen.

Realistically the relegation and promotion system is not going to happen in North America. That's not because things are better here (clearly they're not), it's just the way things are. Shrug.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by rousseau

realistically the relegation and promotion system is not going to happen in north america. that's not because things are better (or worse) here, it's just the way things are.

fyp

[rousseau]

What's ironic about your obstinate idiocy is that the things in the Canadian sports scene that you're complaining about are precisely the things that European football gets right.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by rousseau

What's ironic about your obstinate idiocy is that the things in the Canadian sports scene that you're complaining about are precisely the things that European football gets right.

Sorry, I don't buy into the Euro trash condescension. When I need police protection at the next game I go to, then we can talk.

[GlassCity]

I'm a big fan of rugby, so am quite familiar with the European sports model, since from what I understand it mirrors soccer a fair bit. There are parts of it that I like and dislike.

I definitely like the promotion/relegation system. I think it creates an incentive for people in smaller markets to support their teams rather than just cheer for the nearest major league team. In the North American context, if I live in London, why would I support the Knights over the Leafs? I know lots of "purer" sports fans would, but I can't imagine that I as a more casual fan would. If I knew my team had a chance to one day be playing against the Leafs, I would pay much closer attention. It generally legitimizes smaller, more local leagues. That being said it obviously runs the risk of a small market entering, which would not be good for our leagues the way they are currently set up.

However, I do hate the multiple cups. Again, as a casual fan, they're confusing and it forces me to follow much more closely because every week my team's playing in a different competition. Furthermore, I think it spreads out the prestige of winning these cups, rather than having one grand champion. I get that in Europe they exist to pit teams in different leagues against each other, but I'd rather just see the champions of each respective league play each other instead of including such a large number of them.

This brings me to playoffs. I dislike the European system because the champion can be decided before the season's over, and other team's seasons made irrelevant even before that. I tend to agree that that the North American playoff system makes the regular season meaningless as well, but I'd rather this be solved through less teams in the playoffs rather than eliminating them altogether. For this same reason I don't like the European Cup thing. If the Champions League is more prestigious than the Premiership (I have no idea if it is or not, I don't follow soccer), does it not make winning the Premiership less important if you qualify for the Champions League anyway? Again, the issue of making money for the league exists here as well.

All in all, there's positives and negatives to both systems. I don't think I could name one as better as the other, though I do think both could improve.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

All in all, there's positives and negatives to both systems. I don't think I could name one as better as the other, though I do think both could improve.

Praise Allah!

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by elly63

I don't know about that. It's true to a point, but I'd prefer if the Leafs had the option to pick a Canadian trained player as number one. In 1947 wouldn't black fans of the Dodgers have rather they signed Jackie Robinson than not. Wouldn't a large number of CFL fans like to see the second coming of Russ Jackson playing in the CFL. A Canadian QB, would be, ironically the Jackie Robinson of the CFL.

Sure you want the best player possible but you also want somebody the fans can identify (and even) empathize with.

Oh sure, most people would tell you that all things being equal, they'd prefer a Canadian superstar on their favourite team. But pass on Auston Matthews for Pierre-Luc Dubois just because he's Canadian? Not a chance. What matters is that the team gets the best players possible for the franchise. Nobody's going to switch their allegiance from the Leafs to the Ducks because Matthews is American while Perry and Getzlaf are Canadian.

Originally Posted by rousseau

the bizarre and childish unwillingness to let games end in a draw;

Finally someone who agrees with me about this! There's nothing wrong with a tie. The NHL standings were actually simpler when ties were allowed. I feel the same way about the constant search for more scoring. It never works in the long term and I have my doubts that returning to the run & gun 80s would make the game more popular at all. Soccer has hardly any scoring and it's the most popular sport in the world.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Correct.

OK, well I managed to overlook the fact that the Marlies are in the Calder Cup playoffs. Along with what percentage of Canadians?

I am not sure if that proves my point or if it proves the other side of the argument.

I'm not sure either but I thought it was worth mentioning. There's only a minor buzz in Toronto about the Marlies, and that's mostly among Leafs fans. The games are sold out though, so that's a plus.

Originally Posted by Acajack

The NHL *used* to be like that in Canada. I am originally from the Maritimes. I can assure that not that long ago sports bars in Halifax, Moncton, Charlottetown were packed for Stanley Cup games, regardless of the teams. These days? There are people watching for sure, but not like before.

This is not a concern of mine. Just an observation.

But it should be a concern for the NHL. And Rogers especially.

If that's true I think it might have something to do with the fact that the Canadian teams are terrible and none of them have won a Stanley Cup in 23 years. As much as JHikka thinks it's nonsense, the fact is that kind of thing matters. When Vancouver was in the final a few years ago I saw all kinds of Canucks flags on people's cars despite being firmly in Leafs territory. People were genuinely interested, Canucks fans or not. Same with Ottawa and Edmonton before them. You don't see that as much with Los Angeles and Chicago. The TV ratings are reflecting that this year.

Originally Posted by elly63

You think someone over here wants to pay a billion bucks for a team like New York and end up playing in a league against Peoria?

How is that worse than playing against Green Bay or Raleigh? Or Winnipeg for that matter?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Mister F

Finally someone who agrees with me about this! There's nothing wrong with a tie.

I agree with you, there's nothing worse than the shoot out or penalty kicks, they are not team concepts in a team game.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

Praise Allah!

I agree with him. There are things I like about the way Euro leagues operate and things I like about NA leagues.

But what I really want, is for Canada to have a bona fide domestic pro sports scene. Which IMO we do not have at the moment.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Mister F

How is that worse than playing against Green Bay or Raleigh? Or Winnipeg for that matter?

Paris-St-Germain played Ajaccio from Corsica on the weekend. Population: 66,000. No one lost their minds.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Mister F

If that's true I think it might have something to do with the fact that the Canadian teams are terrible and none of them have won a Stanley Cup in 23 years. As much as JHikka thinks it's nonsense, the fact is that kind of thing matters. When Vancouver was in the final a few years ago I saw all kinds of Canucks flags on people's cars despite being firmly in Leafs territory. People were genuinely interested, Canucks fans or not. Same with Ottawa and Edmonton before them. You don't see that as much with Los Angeles and Chicago. The TV ratings are reflecting that this year.

Well, this Canadian demographic is the NHL's bread and butter and has been for generations. It may be exaggerated to say that the NHL has been disrespectful to them (or ''us'', since I guess I am in it), but certainly one can say it's been taken for granted and not really nurtured. Compared to what most other leagues have done with their fan bases.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

Do you think corporatization is part of that? In the old days names like MLSE or Rogers would have meant nothing, now they are at the forefront. Growing up I watched Harold Ballard's sad sack Leafs not this branch of a corporate conglomerate. Not that I pay much attention but I think it has had an insidious negative effect.

I've never thought of that. To me it's as I said in my other post: the NHL has gone off chasing the "vision quest'' girl while expecting that its steady girl will always be there no matter what.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Acajack

But what I really want, is for Canada to have a bona fide domestic pro sports scene. Which IMO we do not have at the moment.

And the only place where we actually do have it (CFL), it is treated like the unwanted step-child that will never be good enough.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I agree with him. There are things I like about the way Euro leagues operate and things I like about NA leagues.

But what I really want, is for Canada to have a bona fide domestic pro sports scene. Which IMO we do not have at the moment.

Definitely. Despite our discussions, the biggest problem with the sports scene in Canada isn't our lack of promotion/relegation or additional competitions, but the lack of our own set of sports leagues. But yes, as Nathan mentions, our existing examples don't exactly inspire confidence. It is fun to think about though, because it sucks that so many cities of ours have to sit on the sidelines and watch the biggest few play. There's absolutely no reason they shouldn't be playing too. Hell, if being affiliated with the US is such a big deal, you could do a Champion's League-type set-up too. It'll never happen though, there's just too much money involved for the cities that already exist in the US leagues. They'll never leave that for a Canadian one.

[mistercorporate]

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/16...ntain-to-climb

According to the CSA President, the new Canadian Premier League soccer teams will be based in Hamilton, Winnipeg, Regina, Calgary, BC (Victoria?) and likely Ottawa and Edmonton. Still vague on TO, MTL and Van, but i would imagine a 10 team setup. One more month to go to find out!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/16...ntain-to-climb

According to the CSA President, the new Canadian Premier League soccer teams will be based in Hamilton, Winnipeg, Regina, Calgary, BC (Victoria?) and likely Ottawa and Edmonton. Still vague on TO, MTL and Van, but i would imagine a 10 team setup. One more month to go to find out!

So he's going to try and lure Ottawa and Edmonton out of the NASL? Good luck with that.

I mean, given my posting history on here everyone knows I think it would be totally logical to have an all Canadian first division pro soccer league.

But given the history and the "climate" (not talking about weather BTW) in Canada, I think that even I wouldn't make the leap to the Canadian Premier League if I was the owner of Ottawa or Edmonton.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

But given the history and the "climate" (not talking about weather BTW) in Canada, I think that even I wouldn't make the leap to the Canadian Premier League if I was the owner of Ottawa or Edmonton.

Edmonton may be tempted due to travel and cost but Ottawa's been doing very well in the NASL and they'd be foolish to leave that before the CPL proves it's a viable league of, at least, equal footing.

Calgary Foothills and WSA Winnipeg should be easy draws in those cities, it has to be said. I think there's the Victoria Highlanders capable as well? I'm just trying to find existing clubs that could transition into becoming CPL teams.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Edmonton may be tempted due to travel and cost but Ottawa's been doing very well in the NASL and they'd be foolish to leave that before the CPL proves it's a viable league of, at least, equal footing.

Calgary Foothills and WSA Winnipeg should be easy draws in those cities, it has to be said. I think there's the Victoria Highlanders capable as well? I'm just trying to find existing clubs that could transition into becoming CPL teams.

I am trying to think of how many all-Canadian pro soccer leagues have flopped in the past three decades...

[esquire]

I think Ottawa and Ed should play it safe and stay in the NASL until the CPL finds its feet... the CPL won't live or die on whether Ottawa and Edmonton joins it.

But if the CPL does take off then why not join? I mean, unless it's obvious that one or both cities are on the fast track to MLS (Ottawa maaaaybe, Ed definitely not at the moment), then what's the downside? You get a much cheaper domestic travel schedule and it's not like the NASL is full of marquee draws that you couldn't live without. I mean, if you're a soccer fan in those cities is Fort Lauderdale or Oklahoma City really that dazzling in relation to Calgary or Hamilton?

FWIW I think a Winnipeg soccer team would do well, especially if it's aligned with the major sports teams here. I'd love to see the Jets and Bombers partner on a soccer venture.