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  #9621  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2016, 10:51 PM
Sheba Sheba is offline
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Originally Posted by Mac Write View Post
Sounds like not a bad idea to add a switch at the tunnel entrances since it's easy to due right now and would help with single tracking.
The more switches, crossover tracks, etc the better. It's a mess when there's a problem in one section of the line that leads to a whole lot of single tracking. A recent example would be the problem they had at Joyce recently that led to single tracking from Royal Oak to Commercial-Broadway.
     
     
  #9622  
Old Posted May 1, 2016, 5:24 AM
dpogue dpogue is offline
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The more switches, crossover tracks, etc the better. It's a mess when there's a problem in one section of the line that leads to a whole lot of single tracking. A recent example would be the problem they had at Joyce recently that led to single tracking from Royal Oak to Commercial-Broadway.
There's nothing in between the tunnel and the other crossover switches, so they would effectively be putting in redundant switches.
And more switches aren't necessairly a good thing. That problem at Joyce was caused by a switch losing its position and forcing the computer to close the track to trains.

There are crossover switches at Burquitlam, at the end of the tunnel (before the future West Port Moody station), and at Falcon Drive for the VSF, and before Lafarge Lake-Douglas. There's a pocket track at Moody Central, and the VSF storage loops are effectively pocket tracks. There's a turnback/spur with several switches at Coquitlam Central, and an extra switch at Lougheed.
     
     
  #9623  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 1:22 PM
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New map for the Evergreen extension. Green in name only.

     
     
  #9624  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 4:53 PM
Trainguy Trainguy is offline
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Has it already been decided that Millennium trains will terminate at Production Way and then turn back? Or is it still up in the air so to speak until they see actual traffic volumes?
     
     
  #9625  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 5:17 PM
nickbeaulieu nickbeaulieu is offline
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wait, what? There's a plan to make millennium line trains terminate sooner? So for me to go from surrey to brentwood would require 2 train changes?
     
     
  #9626  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 5:30 PM
madog222 madog222 is online now
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Originally Posted by Trainguy View Post
Has it already been decided that Millennium trains will terminate at Production Way and then turn back? Or is it still up in the air so to speak until they see actual traffic volumes?
They will be Expo line trains but yes, it is decided.

Expo line will operate Waterfront to King George and Production Way in the same way the Canada Line operates. There was talk of having every third train do to Production Way and 2/3 trains going to Surrey, I'm not sure if that has been decided.

Millennium Line trains will operate VCC-Clark (Arbutus in time) to Lafarge Lake via the evergreen extension.
     
     
  #9627  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 6:09 PM
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Originally Posted by madog222 View Post
They will be Expo line trains but yes, it is decided.

Expo line will operate Waterfront to King George and Production Way in the same way the Canada Line operates. There was talk of having every third train do to Production Way and 2/3 trains going to Surrey, I'm not sure if that has been decided.

Millennium Line trains will operate VCC-Clark (Arbutus in time) to Lafarge Lake via the evergreen extension.
Expo line has to go more than 50% to Surrey IMO. That stretch is already very busy during rush hours.
     
     
  #9628  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 6:47 PM
Trainguy Trainguy is offline
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You are so right.. KG - WF should have a 2/3 split with 1/3 going to Production way.
     
     
  #9629  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Trainguy View Post
You are so right.. KG - WF should have a 2/3 split with 1/3 going to Production way.
It will be the same assignments that they have at Waterfront currently: 2/3 to King George, and 1/3 to Production Way-University.

I still think it's ridiculous that they're turning back at Production instead of Lougheed, where they have all the switch infrastructure to do it without delaying trains on the mainline
     
     
  #9630  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 9:17 PM
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I'm sure that if it causes too many problems on the mainline, they'll revert to a terminus at Lougheed.
     
     
  #9631  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
logicbomb logicbomb is offline
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I'm sure that if it causes too many problems on the mainline, they'll revert to a terminus at Lougheed.
I can understand why it would 🞵🞵🞵🞵 for a SFU/Burnaby bound commuter who is coming from Surrey. You would have to switch at Columbia and do it again at Lougheed. Likewise if one is going to Braid from Downtown. You'd have to switch at Broadway-Commercial and again at Lougheed. Both situations require one to run/walk downstairs and upstairs again and hope you don't miss the connecting train.
     
     
  #9632  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 9:39 PM
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Originally Posted by logicbomb View Post
I can understand why it would 🞵🞵🞵🞵 for a SFU/Burnaby bound commuter who is coming from Surrey. You would have to switch at Columbia and do it again at Lougheed. Likewise if one is going to Braid from Downtown. You'd have to switch at Broadway-Commercial and again at Lougheed. Both situations require one to run/walk downstairs and upstairs again and hope you don't miss the connecting train.
In the Columbia->Production Way scenario, the Lougheed transfer would be a cross-platform transfer. The reverse direction (Production Way->Columbia) would be an up-down transfer.

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Originally Posted by dpogue View Post
There are crossover switches at Burquitlam, at the end of the tunnel (before the future West Port Moody station), and at Falcon Drive for the VSF, and before Lafarge Lake-Douglas. There's a pocket track at Moody Central, and the VSF storage loops are effectively pocket tracks. There's a turnback/spur with several switches at Coquitlam Central, and an extra switch at Lougheed.
I thought there were supposed to be 2 switches at the future West Port Moody Station - this video (@8:40) only shows 1 switch - unless the other switch is farther east at the other end of the future station(?)

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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Found this:

• Video Link

Last edited by officedweller; May 2, 2016 at 10:48 PM.
     
     
  #9633  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 9:43 PM
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Originally Posted by logicbomb View Post
I can understand why it would 🞵🞵🞵🞵 for a SFU/Burnaby bound commuter who is coming from Surrey. You would have to switch at Columbia and do it again at Lougheed. Likewise if one is going to Braid from Downtown. You'd have to switch at Broadway-Commercial and again at Lougheed. Both situations require one to run/walk downstairs and upstairs again and hope you don't miss the connecting train.
You mean like what happens at Bloor-Yonge? The Skytrain runs enough times that it really should be a non issue.
     
     
  #9634  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 9:45 PM
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
I'm sure that if it causes too many problems on the mainline, they'll revert to a terminus at Lougheed.
I think it should line up with wherever the SFU buses end up. Maybe a redesigned bus station there would help. Wasn't space and congestion the reason they moved that to production?

Would 🞵🞵🞵🞵 for all the businesses there.
     
     
  #9635  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 9:51 PM
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I have a feeling that whenever there is a service disruption, the Expo line trains will terminate at Lougheed. They would probably even set up a Lougheed-Columbia shuttle.

I really hope that even in the event of a severe disruption on the Expo line, the Millennium line trains can run as normal.

But even with the increased frequency on the Millennium line, turning trains around at Production Way probably won't interfere with other trains for a long time.

I think they will be turning trains at Production Way until the Broadway Extension opens, at which point the frequency will be high enough that turning trains there would cause a disruption. But who knows, maybe Evergreen will be an even bigger success than they think and they will need to ramp up frequency much higher than anticipated.
     
     
  #9636  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 10:01 PM
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I think it should line up with wherever the SFU buses end up. Maybe a redesigned bus station there would help. Wasn't space and congestion the reason they moved that to production?

Would 🞵🞵🞵🞵 for all the businesses there.
The story goes they moved the SFU bus stop to Production way so that they could A) call the station Production Way University, and B) so that they could get several thousand more boardings a day on the Millennium line (ramping up it's stats).

The Millennium line was heavily criticized as a line from nowhere to nowhere during construction, and to boost public opinion of the line it needed as many riders as possible. If the SFU bus terminated at Lougheed, then all the people transferring from other bus routes at Lougheed could just take the bus to SFU and not ride the Skytrain. So the different terminus for the bus made everyone from Coquitlam and east have to ride the Skytrain.

I don't think there were capacity issues at Lougheed for buses. I used Lougheed daily when the line opened, and it was (and kind of still is) nothing compared to Surrey City Center (and that somehow works). And for years, Production Way was horrible for buses. There were no proper stops or layover facilities. It would have been more practical to have the bus terminate at Lougheed in those days. I think the move was entirely to get that many more boardings/day on Skytrain.
     
     
  #9637  
Old Posted May 3, 2016, 12:15 AM
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aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
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The story goes they moved the SFU bus stop to Production way so that they could ... get several thousand more boardings a day on the Millennium line (ramping up it's stats).
I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. What other Skytrain station could the SFU buses stop at that isn't on the Millennium line? The other obvious candidate, Lougheed, is also a Millennium line station.
     
     
  #9638  
Old Posted May 3, 2016, 1:14 AM
Kisai Kisai is offline
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Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. What other Skytrain station could the SFU buses stop at that isn't on the Millennium line? The other obvious candidate, Lougheed, is also a Millennium line station.
I think you're misunderstanding what was insinuated.



https://www.burnaby.ca/Assets/city+servi...ent/OCP+PDFs/OCP+1998+(full+version).pdf

The OCP actually has the SFU transfer point at Lougheed
     
     
  #9639  
Old Posted May 3, 2016, 7:17 AM
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The Millennium line was heavily criticized as a line from nowhere to nowhere during construction, and to boost public opinion of the line it needed as many riders as possible. If the SFU bus terminated at Lougheed, then all the people transferring from other bus routes at Lougheed could just take the bus to SFU and not ride the Skytrain. So the different terminus for the bus made everyone from Coquitlam and east have to ride the Skytrain.
There's something that irks me about this idea... Like, I can see why this would make sense, but I feel like we can't be sure about the legitimacy of this.

If coming from Coquitlam/east and going to SFU, then why even go through Lougheed... People coming from east on local bus routes on weekdays could take the direct 143 or transfer to it.

I understand that public opinion on the Millennium Line was pretty tough and that if there was a transfer at Lougheed, there'd be a transfer advantage. But when you think about it, practically, there's something that does make sense about having the terminus at Production Way: It's literally at the foot of Gaglardi. Meaning terminating the 145 there is shorter, more efficient, and cuts back on service hours. In a region with a limited fleet of articulated buses needed for ever-growing routes like the 99 and (at the time) 98, I think this was actually really important at the time. It would've been only a few buses but those would've made a difference somewhere else.

At the same time, with the introduction of the 97 B-Line to Lougheed Exch, it's totally understandable that they'd want to keep the 145 terminus out of there, because in the long term it could be a serious constrain on the capacity of the Lougheed bus exchange. I mean, just consider how popular the 145 is today. Where are you going to store for lay-over all of the numerous 60-ft articulated buses that today run at frequencies in excess of 3 minutes during peak hours? You'd have needed to expand the bus exchange there and raise costs. You'd also need to expand the surrounding roadways to account for all of the extra buses and effect on traffic (consider the impact of 60-ft buses turning every 3 minutes or less from Lougheed EB to Austin).

The SkyTrain may be a slight inconvenience and an excuse to boost boarding numbers assuming there are indeed many people going just the one stop (and I really don't think so), but I honestly do find the design to be very practical. And, now that we know the Expo Line can extend that one station over, therefore solving these concerns on the transfer, I think it's safe to say we can close this debate for good.
     
     
  #9640  
Old Posted May 3, 2016, 9:11 AM
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Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. What other Skytrain station could the SFU buses stop at that isn't on the Millennium line? The other obvious candidate, Lougheed, is also a Millennium line station.
What he's saying is that bus to bus transfers at Lougheed Station bus loop didn't increase the M-Line's ridership.
SFU-bound riders arriving at Lougheed Station by bus were forced to travel 1 stop on the M-Line (to an SFU bus at Production Way Station) to boost M-Line ridership statistics (instead of transferring to another bus).
     
     
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