Canadian LRT/RT projects U/C

[GreaterMontréal]

with a max speed of 100km/h, the REM will cross the Champlain bridge at highway speed. The speed limit on the new Champlain bridge should be 90km/h.

[Rico Rommheim]

So now that we know that Central Station (Canada's 2nd busiest train station) will be the nexus of this new 150,000/day LRT network, and the recipient of VIA rail's upcoming increased frequency in the corridor, I wonder if there will be any plans for a renovation / retrofit of the station. I'd say it would be about time to give that station some TLC.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by LaGrandeOurse

1.4B from provincial
1.1B from fed
3B from caisse de depot

Thanks for the info. This appears to be saying that it is possible to get federal funding for transportation projects without the city kicking in their share. If this is a new policy it's a good one.

[Nouvellecosse]

One thing I wonder about the MTL project, is what happens to the AMT Mascouche line? The line was specifically set up using dual mode locomotives so that it can use the Mount Royal Tunnel. I've read that there are also long-term plans to route the St. Jerome line through the tunnel. But if the tunnel is converted into automated, metro-style corridor, then no other type of train will be able to use it.

[le calmar]

I was wondering the same thing. I guess the Mascouche line will be re-routed to the west, and will avoid the tunnel by taking the long way around Mount Royal. Either this, or the line will end at one of the LRT station instead of downtown, which would mean a transfer for the users.

[Rico Rommheim]

^That's devastating news for the Mascouche line then. It will be rendered even less useful. I guess you win some you lose some.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

^That's devastating news for the Mascouche line then. It will be rendered even less useful. I guess you win some you lose some.

I'm certain all ten passengers will be heartbroken

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

So now that we know that Central Station (Canada's 2nd busiest train station) will be the nexus of this new 150,000/day LRT network, and the recipient of VIA rail's upcoming increased frequency in the corridor, I wonder if there will be any plans for a renovation / retrofit of the station. I'd say it would be about time to give that station some TLC.

I'd be really interested to see what will happen here - the station is already a cramped mess at rush hour and you can only imagine what it'll be like with a tenfold increase in departures. This is what I think needs to be done:

- The hall needs to be enlarged to deal with crowding issues. It could be extended south with the demolition of the hideous parking garage. I would take the opportunity to really open it up with a tall, glass ceiling.
- The platforms need to be opened up, cleaned up and occasionally merged so that people can wait on the platforms instead of crowding the hall with long, winding queues. With wider, subway-like platforms with benches and daylight, I think it could be quite pleasant.
- De-clusterfuck-ize the halls leading to the station, especially to high traffic destinations such as the Métro Bonaventure and towards rue Ste Catherine: wide, easy-to-navigate hallways instead of the current cramped, winding and confusing goose hunt trails which can often come to a literal standstill at rush hour because of the sheer volume of people trying to shuffle through.

If nothing is done, the situation at Gare Centrale will quickly become intolerable and unsafe. So even if the Caisse doesn't propose anything, you can be sure that the station is going to undergo some pretty massive changes shortly thereafter.

[Rico Rommheim]

Yeah the dust bunnies that use that line wouldn't care much, but the 800 million $ from taxpayers sure was a waste!

The only way I see the Mascouche line redeem itself is by it being tunred into an LRT a la Deux-Montagne line.

[Rico Rommheim]

I think a more logical alternative, although probably not so viable, would be to widen the Mont-Royal tunnel. I think as traffic increases in the tunnel one day somebody's gonna have to do it.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

I think a more logical alternative, although probably not so viable, would be to widen the Mont-Royal tunnel. I think as traffic increases in the tunnel one day somebody's gonna have to do it.

Especially with VIA now proposing a new Montreal-TroisRivières-Quebec line (it looks to be HFR phase 2) which would pass through the tunnel. For $5.5B, perhaps the tunnel will be widened to three or four tracks to allow for continued suburban and intercity rail service.

[Rico Rommheim]

I have a feeling then, that this REM proposal is going push other actors (like CN, VIA, AMRT, STM) into some pretty intense infrastructural development. A Central Station Reno, a Mont-Royal Tunnel expansion, new bus/metro connections to LRT and much more. Some pretty crazy stuff is about to go down in the next decade in this city.

[SaskOttaLoo]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

- De-clusterfuck-ize the halls leading to the station, especially to high traffic destinations such as the Métro Bonaventure and towards rue Ste Catherine: wide, easy-to-navigate hallways instead of the current cramped, winding and confusing goose hunt trails which can often come to a literal standstill at rush hour because of the sheer volume of people trying to shuffle through.

Definitely agree about this. And better signage!! I've often gotten lost trying to find the Gare Centrale, both at street level and when coming from the metro. That's a really simple improvement for people less familiar with the system.

[SkahHigh]

Who knows, the Mascouche line might be converted at one point as well...

[Martin Mtl]

It's already been anounced that the Mascouche line will stop at Canora station where the riders will have to transfer to the new REM line to reach downtown.

[Rico Rommheim]

^Makes sense.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

It's already been anounced that the Mascouche line will stop at Canora station where the riders will have to transfer to the new REM line to reach downtown.

And the trains then run empty in the tunnel all the way to Central?

[Nouvellecosse]

Since automated light metro can't share tracks with mainline rail, the transfer solution makes sense. The only concern I'd have is that light metro tends to meet its capacity demands by running a large number of small trains (so ridership is spread-out in a fairly even manner) while commuter rail tends to meet it's demand by having a small number of very large trains. A locomotive push/pull train with 8 multilevel coaches can have over 1000 seats and even more standees, so a full rush hour train would drop a huge number of riders onto the light metro at once, so a 4 car light metro train with total capacity of 600 people (150 per car) wouldn't be near enough, not even counting all the other passengers who'd already be on the train.

Let's say each light metro train was only 2/3 full, it could handle only an extra 200 people, meaning some people transferring from commuter rail may have to wait for 4 or more trains before being able to squeeze in. Yes, the light metro is frequent, but waiting for 4 trains to pass by is still going to take time.

The best solution would be to have more frequent commuter rail with smaller trains similar to the UPX DMUs, but that would deepend on the capacity of the rest of the track.

That, or if there was a longer light metro shuttle that just ran express between the trains station and central when a commuter train arrived.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Thanks for the info. This appears to be saying that it is possible to get federal funding for transportation projects without the city kicking in their share. If this is a new policy it's a good one.

The Caisse share is effectively the city share - it is being paid out of property taxes. This P3 is the most private one done nation wide, a pure availability play that doesn't conclude at a certain date with mandatory asset transfer.

Effectively the city is leasing the capacity with the right to buy the line for fair market value later. This is very different than projects like the Canada Line that are closer to a loan with a warranty.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

The Caisse share is effectively the city share - it is being paid out of property taxes. This P3 is the most private one done nation wide, a pure availability play that doesn't conclude at a certain date with mandatory asset transfer.

Effectively the city is leasing the capacity with the right to buy the line for fair market value later. This is very different than projects like the Canada Line that are closer to a loan with a warranty.

Interesting. If I'm understanding this setup correctly why would the citizens of Quebec ever want the city to buy the line if the development along it was successful? Would that not be a good steady stream of revenue into their provincial pension plan? I also question if the city could ever afford to buy it.

[Rico Rommheim]

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