YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Talking about stars, does anyone else think that Air Canada might soon lose their coveted fourth star? They are using it a lot in their advertising, emphasizing how they are the only four-star North American airline. I am just a bit worried that they will be losing their extra star soon, as their product is getting worse by the year (luggage fees, less leg room, poor snacks, etc.). To be honest, I don't know how Air Canada is any different from United, which I fly a lot and is only three stars?

Unlikely that AC would lose their four star Skytrax status. Skytrax only analyzes service out of the airline's primary hub airport, which for AC is YYZ. YYZ has upgraded lounges, dedicated checkin counters for Business Class, priority screening for AC Business traffic, etc.

So for example AC lounges in YYZ are compared to UA lounges in ORD, The AA lounges in DFW, and the DL lounges in ATL.

The Business Class seats get a 4.5 star rating to compensate for 3.5 star rating of AC Economy Seats. AC Rouge does not affect the mainline star rating.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by deasine

I don't think you are flying United enough if you think Air Canada and United are equivalent...

I think American Airlines has better in-flight service than UA or AC. Attentive and professional. (and often, somewhat older people than the others; more experienced, perhaps(?))
And yes, I've flown all three.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by deasine

I don't think you are flying United enough if you think Air Canada and United are equivalent...

I have only flown United coast-to-coast (several times) but never long-haul. I think they have nice new planes and their snacks have been improving. I fail to see any difference in YVR-ORD on UA vs. YVR-YYZ on AC when it's on same size planes.

I have only flown Air Canada in economy, so I don't know how their business class is being. But I taken a note how comments for their 450+ passenger 77Ws on SeatGuru.com are really poor, even for business class. Their 77W economy is very poor leg room wise and it is astounishing how few lavatories those planes have for their size. I think no other main line flies such poor configuration and AC 787s are actually not much better.

I just wonder what the advantages for AC are over UA, but perhaps it is in the more premium product.

Out of the three big American airlines I have only flown UA and few times Delta. I recall Deltahaving been very average. I have never happened to fly American or US Airways (when it still was around).

[nname]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I just wonder what the advantages for AC are over UA, but perhaps it is in the more premium product.

The seat-back entertainment system, for AC mainline at least

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I just wonder what the advantages for AC are over UA, but perhaps it is in the more premium product.

AC biggest advantage over UA and most other North American Airlines is the Concierge program, available to SE travelling on any fare plus International Business Class pax. Concierges are AC best and brightest Customer Service Agents at the airport and are empowered to bend the rules. If you will be late for checkin, call ahead and the concierge will meet you at the terminal door with boarding pass and bag tag in hand, escort you through security for front of the line access, and follow you right to the gate, walling ahead to the gate to make sure your seat is not given away.

AC maple leaf lounge is miles ahead of UA Club. Plus AC gives access to the MLL for mid tier members while UA makes everyone not in 1k or Global Services pay for access when on domestic flight.

AC frequent flyer status gives international upgrades to mid tier members (35k, 50k, 75k) where as only UA top tier (1k or GS) get these upgrades. To compensate, UA complementary upgrades on North American flights are way better than AC Eupgrades.

AC wide bodies have true premium economy class with bigger seat compared to economy and business class meal service. UA economy has economy plus which is same seat but more legroom.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I just wonder what the advantages for AC are over UA, but perhaps it is in the more premium product.

Everything Cage said.... plus.....

Small and big things in no particular order:

United has limited in-flight entertainment. Versus Air Canada more inclusive product.

United buy-on-board in economy is garbage. Snack boxes made of pre-packaged stuff. Processed chease product that can be spread on basic crackers, low grade mass produced snacks. Air Canada has sandwiches, and the option of buying the hot entree from business class.

Seats are OK on older aircraft and equally as bad on new aircraft.

Gate staff and checkin staff treat you a bit more like a number on United.

If you fly on United regional flights they don't have cream for the coffee it is the powder stuff that neither tastes nor looks like cream. Jazz has real cream.

My experience with American is poor but it has more to do with the fact I have only ever flow on a code-share through WestJet and the computer systems between those two airlines don't work as well as they should.

I have to say Alaska is the best in the lot on the US side followed by Delta.

The lounge for United in places like Chicago or San Francisco is overcrowded, food choices tend to be pre-packaged cheese and little factory made cookies. The wine is usually the cheapest thing that will pass being called wine. Air Canada has more fresh food, the interior decorating is better, the wine is better, the selection of magazines is better.

The one thing United (and all the us airlines have going for them) is if there is a cancelled flight there are move willing to move you on to a flight operated by one of the other airlines to get you where you need to be. Air Canada is probably a bit more willing to accept responsibility for the problem but they are more likely to restrict their search for alternative to Star Alliance flights.

[moosejaw]

I would say Virgin followed by Alaska is the best in the lot
Delta is the best out of the big four airlines

You guys would absolutely cringe if you had to fly Spirit Airlines. Its pretty much the greyhound of the skies.

[s211]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

I would say Virgin followed by Alaska is the best in the lot
Delta is the best out of the big four airlines

You guys would absolutely cringe if you had to fly Spirit Airlines. Its pretty much the greyhound of the skies.

Hey, there was a greyhound of the skies back in the mid-90s, and it was the greyhound of the skies. I flew it Calgary-Toronto back in the day once, and there were practically goats and chickens in the arrivals baggage area (the old T1 in Toronto, IIRC), the baggage was so dodgy.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I have only flown United coast-to-coast (several times) but never long-haul. I think they have nice new planes and their snacks have been improving. I fail to see any difference in YVR-ORD on UA vs. YVR-YYZ on AC when it's on same size planes.

I have only flown Air Canada in economy, so I don't know how their business class is being. But I taken a note how comments for their 450+ passenger 77Ws on SeatGuru.com are really poor, even for business class. Their 77W economy is very poor leg room wise and it is astounishing how few lavatories those planes have for their size. I think no other main line flies such poor configuration and AC 787s are actually not much better.

I just wonder what the advantages for AC are over UA, but perhaps it is in the more premium product.

Out of the three big American airlines I have only flown UA and few times Delta. I recall Deltahaving been very average. I have never happened to fly American or US Airways (when it still was around).

I shudder to think of what AC's 77Ws are like when full. I've successfully planned my economy trips on them in quiet times and even then there were queues for the toilets. Their international economy meal service has also really gone downhill.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I shudder to think of what AC's 77Ws are like when full. I've successfully planned my economy trips on them in quiet times and even then there were queues for the toilets. Their international economy meal service has also really gone downhill.

Yeah, especially if the AC77Ws are filled with corrupted chinese with bagloads of money right?

(reminder: no more mall jibes ok?)

[deasine]

Cage and Casper summarised it quite well. I've never flown UA's J but have flown similar variants, but AC's J especially the new 787 and upcoming retrofit 777 product is significantly better than UA.

Funny you bring up about the reviews for the AC's 777-300ER Klazu. LX older J product is the exact same one as AC's 777-300ER, but LX never had any bad reviews, nor did OS and SN which have the same product. I find it comes down to relativity. AC had, at the time, and industry renowned herringbone product with all-aisle access, privacy, and long flat beds. When comparing AC's 777-300ER J to its older herringbone J, it is definitely a step down which explains the bad reviews. But for LX/SN/OS, it was a step up for their customers which was the first introduction of flatbed seating in their fleets, and they never had bad reviews for it!

And yes my experience with US carriers is consistent that of Casper's, Alaska and Delta are really the only major US carrier that is a bit better in terms of customer service. And yes in IRROPS, US carriers also manage rebookings much better than any carrier in the world.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by deasine;7408242..........

.............. And yes in IRROPS, US carriers also manage rebookings much better than any carrier in the world.

Where would Air Canada rate in managing rebookings? Way down there? Or is it ok, or what? thanx

[Cage]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Where would Air Canada rate in managing rebookings? Way down there? Or is it ok, or what? thanx

Compared to the main US based airlines, AC rebooking is better because it's called upon less often.

AC app has canceled flight module that kicks anything offered by the US based airlines. This is great for pax who have the app and terrible for those who are relying on passenger service desk or ticketting to solve their problem. I have reaccomodated myself in 45 seconds, great for me but the lady with infant in arms got the seats taken out from under her by the time she walked 20 feet to the counter.

Ua excels at publishing their standby list for everyone to see, this reduces a lot of gate agent interference as anyone can Review the agents actions in real time. Great for frequent flyer who are high up on the priority list, however not so great for groups or families that must travel together. On some forums, the gate agent shenanigans are so frequent that they have a code name, Sheena. However if you are travelling in a group, the transparency can be a negative as any attempt by the gate agents to create a special circumstance can be easily spotted by the frequent fliers.

Rebooking on other airlines is a factor of US air transport legislation and that there are more airlines to complete the transfer. Here in Canada, WS will not set up an interline agreement with AC, so there is very limited ability for pax reaccomodation

[casper]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Where would Air Canada rate in managing rebookings? Way down there? Or is it ok, or what? thanx

Air Canada is good at rebooking. However there approach is to re-book on their own flights and if they can't do that then Star Alliance partners. If they can't that way then interline partners.

The US carriers do the same thing. In the US all the major legacy airlines interline with each other (and Air Canada for that matter). They are move likely to move you onto another airline because it is easy for them to do it.

In Canada domestically the problem is WestJet started a low-cost airline that did not interline with anyone. Last couple of years they have added interlines but they still don't have one with Air Canada.

As an example, I have been in Edmonton with a cancelled Air Canada flight and AC moved all of us over to Canadian North. WestJet who also operate the route is not even visible.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Cage

Compared to the main US based airlines, AC rebooking is better because it's called upon less often.

AC app has canceled flight module that kicks anything offered by the US based airlines. This is great for pax who have the app and terrible for those who are relying on passenger service desk or ticketting to solve their problem. I have reaccomodated myself in 45 seconds, great for me but the lady with infant in arms got the seats taken out from under her by the time she walked 20 feet to the counter.
.....

Rebooking on other airlines is a factor of US air transport legislation and that there are more airlines to complete the transfer. Here in Canada, WS will not set up an interline agreement with AC, so there is very limited ability for pax reaccomodation

I agree the app is nice.

I did not know WS was the holdout on that. They would gain the most from an interline. When I lived in Saskatoon after one of two IROP where they moved me to the next day because they have so few flights I stopped flying them. Had they been able to move me over to AC they would have likely picked up more of my business.

[ShawnShank]

Air France equipment-swapped in a 777-300ER today instead of the usual -200ER

EDIT: Managed to capture this (fairly shitty) pic of it from my balcony

http://i.imgur.com/6oee4XJ.png

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by ShawnShank

Air France equipment-swapped in a 777-300ER today instead of the usual -200ER

Is this just a one-off, or a future trend? Apparently the AF Paris run is exceeding expectations.

[ShawnShank]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Is this just a one-off, or a future trend? Apparently the AF Paris run is exceeding expectations.

One off, the flight got delayed by a few hours as well. Last time this happened was also a one-off in November or around that time. I'd love to see the AF 77W on the regular here, but I think they would at least go daily year-round before that happens (unless the route is really seasonal?)

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Is this just a one-off, or a future trend? Apparently the AF Paris run is exceeding expectations.

hehehe... i see your cheeky grin trofirhen. Well done.

[Johnny Aussie]

Effective mid July LH will be flying the 346 5x per week instead of 3x per week as originally scheduled for summer 2016 on the YVR-MUC route.

Yet another boost to summer 2016 Europe capacity.

The 346s will operate x35. Days 3 and 5 will continue to operate with the 333.