Calgary International Airport II

[MrBigStuff]

Isn't YYC closer to Hong Kong. If it is - why go thru YYZ???

[People.talking]

Originally Posted by MrBigStuff

Isn't YYC closer to Hong Kong. If it is - why go thru YYZ???

My guess would be that there is a higher demand

[McMurph]

Originally Posted by MrBigStuff

Isn't YYC closer to Hong Kong. If it is - why go thru YYZ???

I haven't flown that route for a long time but there is no way I'd accept a routing through YYZ. YVR for sure. Beijing or Narita would be alright, if nonstop from YYC. Via SFO maybe. But it would take a huge discount to make me want to start a such a long trip with that big of a detour. Does anybody actually do it?

[MalcolmTucker]

Clearing customs in SFO if you don't have express entry as a non-USA citizen is slow coming trans-pacific. Clearing visa-holders seems to take forever.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Clearing customs in SFO if you don't have express entry as a non-USA citizen is slow coming trans-pacific. Clearing visa-holders seems to take forever.

Canadian passport holders can use the US Citizens line for USCBP processing. However the airport employees manning the queues will often send Canadians to the foreigners line. I have returned from Australia and connected through SFO using the US Citizens line, this was before Nexus and Global Entry came into force.

Also I highly recommend everyone gets set up with Nexus. I treat my Nexus like the Amex commercials and never leave home without it. Nexus gives expedited processing for CBSA, USCBP, CATSA, and TSA (basically Canada and USA primary inspection lines for C&I and pre-board security screening).

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Cage

Canadian passport holders can use the US Citizens line for USCBP processing. However the airport employees manning the queues will often send Canadians to the foreigners line. I have returned from Australia and connected through SFO using the US Citizens line, this was before Nexus and Global Entry came into force.

Is this only at select airports/terminals in the States or system wide? At DFW I remember seeing signs for USA and Canada passport holders to use one line and all other foreign nationals to use the other.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Acey

ATL and LAX launch them with zero initial divergence on RNAV departures all day long, off parallels closer than Calgary. Canadian implementation of RNAV very forward in some areas, inexplicably lagging in others.

That's because Canada doesn't have proper RNAV departures straight from the runway to the first waypoint, yet.

There were trials in YOW 15-20 or so years ago, but don't know what happened with those.

Right now, in Canada, to be able to depart simultaneously from parallel runways at least 2500ft apart, initial headings need to diverge by 15° immediately after departure.

YUL controllers have been asking the airport authority for years now to allow it to turn jets on departure, to no avail.

If you notice the standard instrument departures for jets at YYZ, they don't fully satisfy the conditions either, but they have a waiver from TC to do simultaneous departures with only 10° divergence. They turn a guy 2° on one runway and 8° on the other. Plus they don't turn right away after being airborne either. Toronto always gets what it wants, one way or another...

Although it is worth noting they have 2 miles between 23 and 24R.

Originally Posted by cyeg66

Yes, this Airport doesn't hesitate to meddle in affairs that don't traditionally fall within an airport's purview.

To be fair, it is the airport authority's responsibility, all noise issues within a certain radius from the airport. Consulting the public is now mandatory. You can thank Harper and his government for that one.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Is this only at select airports/terminals in the States or system wide? At DFW I remember seeing signs for USA and Canada passport holders to use one line and all other foreign nationals to use the other.

That Canadians can use the US Citizen can use the US citizen line is a system wide policy (part of the US-Canada free trade Agreement). That said it is rare for a USCBP officer to patrol the incoming line, most of the time this function is done by the airport. The problem is that the airport employees put everyone who does not have a US passport into the international travelers line. Some even go so far as to demand to see your passport (I'm looking at you LAX) and then shunt the Canadians over to the international line.

However for the last 7 years I have been using Nexus line for inbound Canada border cross and Global Entry for Inbound US border cross.

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

That's because Canada doesn't have proper RNAV departures straight from the runway to the first waypoint, yet.

I'm aware of this since it's pretty clearly outlined in my copy of manops, as well as YYZ's procedures which I too described earlier in the thread.

My time in high level control only increases my curiosity as to why we are among the world leaders in that discipline, but lagging in the seemingly simpler aspect of divergence after takeoff.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Acey

I'm aware of this since it's pretty clearly outlined in my copy of manops

Don't you mean MATS?!

Originally Posted by Nick

Don't you mean MATS?!

God bless.

[People.talking]

Ok so I'm still hearing rumours about Cathay starting service to Calgary, soooooo should I expect that orrrrr...?

[holhm22]

Originally Posted by People.talking

Ok so I'm still hearing rumours about Cathay starting service to Calgary, soooooo should I expect that orrrrr...?

I'd say wait until 2018 at least. CX is in the process of getting A350s, which would be the viable aircraft for the route.

[cyeg66]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

If you notice the standard instrument departures for jets at YYZ, they don't fully satisfy the conditions either, but they have a waiver from TC to do simultaneous departures with only 10° divergence. They turn a guy 2° on one runway and 8° on the other. Plus they don't turn right away after being airborne either. Toronto always gets what it wants, one way or another...

YYC also has a waiver for 10deg turns off 17L, but not so when departing off the 35's.

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

To be fair, it is the airport authority's responsibility, all noise issues within a certain radius from the airport. Consulting the public is now mandatory. You can thank Harper and his government for that one.

There is no 'certain radius' around Calgary, it would seem. The noise complaints (and complainants) are fast becoming the stuff of legend. I've heard that the city, the Airport, and Nav have enough hard data to send some of the worst whiners packing but this isn't as easy as it should be (thank you Lisa Raitt.)

Besides, as for "meddling", there's been more of it than you realize.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by cyeg66

There is no 'certain radius' around Calgary, it would seem. The noise complaints (and complainants) are fast becoming the stuff of legend. I've heard that the city, the Airport, and Nav have enough hard data to send some of the worst whiners packing but this isn't as easy as it should be (thank you Lisa Raitt.)

Besides, as for "meddling", there's been more of it than you realize.

The noise complaints happening outside the traditional complaint zone (a zone I would roughly define as within the NEF noise contours established in the 70s) are vastly different from the NE Calgary aircraft noise complaints. Complaints inside the traditional zone are complaining about gross noise, which means the shear volume and frequency of noise coming from aircraft is the problem. Complaints coming from outside the traditional zone are situational and not based on high decibel levels.

Example of the situational aspect, all the data on aircraft noise suggests that residents of West Calgary are experience aircraft noise at 50 decibels, which is the same level as a quiet suburb or conversation at home (the colloquial "inside voice" level your elementary school teacher constantly reminded you to use). The issue at hand for West Calgary is that some residents will be unable to ignore the aircraft noise over other forms of noise, and this causes aggravation in the mind of the noise complainers.

The problem for politicians of all levels, it is very hard to tell these types of noise complainers that the problem is in their head (their brain cannot ignore the 50 decibel level aircraft noise because it aggravates them, the frequency of aircraft makes the constant aggravation into a maddening state).

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Cage

The problem for politicians of all levels, it is very hard to tell these types of noise complainers that the problem is in their head (their brain cannot ignore the 50 decibel level aircraft noise because it aggravates them, the frequency of aircraft makes the constant aggravation into a maddening state).

This is really interesting to read...how do you quantify what is essentially a bias towards a certain noise? You probably should be able to take that into account in some way, no? It's too bad I didn't see this until now, as I had a meeting with a noise expert for a project this week and I would have loved to hear his thoughts on this.

[McMurph]

This is a big issue and is a frequent component of impact assessment in a number of industries, most notably wind energy. Annoyance is a real impact and dismissing it as "in someone's head" probably makes it worse. The question really isn't whether someone is significantly impacted (they are) or whether they should be (it's obviously subjective), but whether anybody is obliged or able to do anything about it. The noise studies and numbers really only help for the last question. The really tricky part is trying to figure out how to mitigate annoyance without doing anything about the actual noise.

[Chinook Arch]

question for the avgeeks here.. What's the best place to view aircraft take-offs and landings? I know there is a spot off of McKnight near 12th street, but I was hoping there was some place closer in.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Chinook Arch

question for the avgeeks here.. What's the best place to view aircraft take-offs and landings? I know there is a spot off of McKnight near 12th street, but I was hoping there was some place closer in.

So many places, check out this guide for all the info:

http://www.dude8472productions.com/yyc-spotting-guide-1.html

[Cage]

Reminder that the Calgary Airport AGM is this coming Thursday at 11am.

Two years ago the crazies were the McCall Lake Golf Course preservation society.
Last year the crazies were the save our horses from being shipped to Asia for slaughter.
Who will be this years' crazies????

For me I have a bit of thank-you speech to write before I ask my question.
- Two years ago I asked about travel rights to China. The answer was a prediction that Beijing service would begin in 2016 with a Chinese airline. This prediction has come true.
- Last years question was regarding availability of the terminal to handle 2016 traffic given the delayed opening of International Terminal. Unfortunately the recession (depress traffic) and that WS chose to hub out of LGW means that YYC can handle the summer traffic peak.

I have a few ideas for questions. Throwing it out to the forum, what questions about the airport and/or airport authority should be brought up at the AGM?

The Calgary Airport Authority's Annual General Meeting will occur on Thursday, April 21, 2016, at 11 a.m. at the Aero Space Museum of Calgary. The purpose of this meeting is to inform Calgarians and all persons with a stake in the airport about the progress and activities of the past year and briefly address plans for the future.

Date: April 21, 2016
Time: 11 a.m.
Location: Aero Space Museum of Calgary, 4629 McCall Way N.E.

The Authority's annual report will become available online on April 21, 2016.