Winnipeg Construction VIII

[Tacheguy]

I have a friend out west with an advanced degree in history. A few years back he took his young family on the great Canadian car trip. Told me there were two things he wanted his kids to see in Manitoba, Grand Beach and Upper Fort Garry.
True story.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Ando

I'll keep trying. They are trying to preserve the area where the bulk of the footprint of probably the most important historical area of the province was. It will be a recognition of our history and an educational centre for the founding of the province. There are acres upon acres upon acres of land to build highrises in Winnipeg without building a tower next to and overshadowing such a historically significant area for the city. The developer, who seems to be some sort of folk hero and combination of Gandhi and Martin Luther King on this board, received a prime piece of property in return. There are lots of current new developments and highrises popping up downtown nearby.

So now it's not the building itself but the shadow that is the problem?

The gate, the footprint or the idea of a park were never threatened by the apartment block. It's a loss for the urbanity of the area. We had an opportunity to have our cake and eat it too but we lost it due to some misguided notion that having no buildings next to a historic site somehow makes it grander.

[Tacheguy]

Winnipeg suffers from the lack of a Central Park. In my opinion anything that makes the downtown more enjoyable as a place to live will promote residential development over time.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

Winnipeg suffers from the lack of a Central Park. In my opinion anything that makes the downtown more enjoyable as a place to live will promote residential development over time.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.8957865,-97.1478875,18.17z?hl=en

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

Winnipeg suffers from the lack of a Central Park. In my opinion anything that makes the downtown more enjoyable as a place to live will promote residential development over time.

You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding.

We have parks coming out the wazoo, the problem is that we don't invest in them properly to make them desirable places to be. Always money for flashy new capital projects like UFG park, never a dime to improve the longstanding existing parks.

Juba Park
Central Park
Bonnycastle Park
The Forks
Central Park
Upper Fort Garry Park
Memorial Park
Legislative Grounds
Riverwalk

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by esquire

You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding.

We have parks coming out the wazoo, the problem is that we don't invest in them properly.

Juba Park
Central Park
Bonnycastle Park
The Forks
Central Park
Upper Fort Garry Park
Memorial Park
Legislative Grounds

Central Park is so nice you named it twice.

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding.

We have parks coming out the wazoo, the problem is that we don't invest in them properly to make them desirable places to be. Always money for flashy new capital projects like UFG park, never a dime to improve the longstanding existing parks.

Juba Park
Central Park
Bonnycastle Park
The Forks
Central Park
Upper Fort Garry Park
Memorial Park
Legislative Grounds
Riverwalk

which one of those is a central park in any meaningful sense of the word?
the ufg park complements those pieces you have mentioned and supports a green corridor around the forks area. I think you have to look at the whole area there and not just the site itself. I agree with you that more money should be spent of maintenance but that seems like another issue.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

which one of those is a central park in any meaningful sense of the word?
the ufg park complements those pieces you have mentioned and supports a green corridor around the forks area. I think you have to look at the whole area there and not just the site itself. I agree with you that more money should be spent of maintenance but that seems like another issue.

Since the city redid Central Park it has been an integral piece of the community. It's bustling all the time in the summer, and even active in the winter. It's almost single-handedly helping improve that area by providing a place for kids and families to interact, mostly new Canadians, and is a vital piece of downtown that is a perfect example of how well thought-out spaces can change an area.

I will agree though that Memorial Park is a huge waste of space. It's insane. I looked into doing an event there and the city told me because most of it is provincial land that there would be so many hoops to jump through because the MB gov't has some sort of weird sacred feeling that nothing should happen there. Apparently ManyFest took years to get them on board.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

which one of those is a central park in any meaningful sense of the word?
the ufg park complements those pieces you have mentioned and supports a green corridor around the forks area. I think you have to look at the whole area there and not just the site itself. I agree with you that more money should be spent of maintenance but that seems like another issue.

The point is that we have plenty of patches of land to do something with. Adding more parks for people to ignore does not seem like a solution.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Central Park is so nice you named it twice.

Oops

Replace Central Park with some others I overlooked, like

Millennium Library Park
McFadyen Park

A stone's throw away from downtown are

Promenade Tache
Fort Rouge Park
Whittier Park
Parc Joseph Royal

Loads and loads of parks. Seldom are they ever very busy, though.

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

The point is that we have plenty of patches of land to do something with. Adding more parks for people to ignore does not seem like a solution.

You mean YOUR point

[trueviking]

bonnycastle is a beautiful park that serves the population of Broadway Assiniboine.
Stephen Juba serves the exchange district
Central Park serves Central Park.
The patch of grass where the Shanghai used to be serves Chinatown.
The Forks serves everyone.

Add the library, memorial boulevard and all the others pointed out here.

Now many parks do you need? What area of downtown is not served by a park?

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Sounds like you worked on the renderings?? Otherwise how would you know what 1 person out of the billion in China did?

I didn't. Drew did.

Originally Posted by drew

To be fair - the render-porn company hired out of China to create this presentation probably didn't know that a place existed where street corners could be barricaded to prevent pedestrians - so they just went with what felt natural.

Pay attention.

[bomberjet]

I was paying attention. This is how the convo went down.

Originally Posted by drew

To be fair - the render-porn company hired out of China to create this presentation probably didn't know that a place existed where street corners could be barricaded to prevent pedestrians - so they just went with what felt natural.

Originally Posted by Spocket

Nice dig at China there but no, actually you've got it exactly backwards.

I was trying to figure out how you knew what the guy from China, who made the render, was thinking when he put crosswalks allover the place? And mountains too!

[Wolf13]

The cynic in me critically questions the need of the UFG park, or atleast its somewhat boring arrangmen/look. There's the "move forward" argument, which many great cities have adopted before replacing so-called hallowed grounds. Maybe I'm not "Manitoban" enough.

Still I can understand the need (for some) or desire (for most) of history.

Is this the best use of the land? Certainly not. But was Plan B, complete with new park and new tower nearby, still a success?

In my opinion, definitely so.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I was trying to figure out how you knew what the guy from China, who made the render, was thinking?

More than anything it was a dig at Winnipeg's stupid barricades.

The quote merely mentioned "china" and someone twitched.

Reality is, many renderings come from China. Other reality is, no reasonable person would assume a major city would allow a major intersection to have barricades.

[esquire]

^ Well, I will say that China probably has more grade-separated pedestrian crossings (mostly above-grade) at intersections than any other place I've ever been to. So it probably wouldn't strike the average Chinese person as an alien concept

[drew]

Originally Posted by Spocket

I didn't. Drew did.


Pay attention.

Full disclosure: I have no idea where the renders and videos were produced. I was making an assumption based on Architect of Record for this project and where, I have been told, they do a great deal of the production for their projects.

My barb was more aimed at the fact the video was likley not produced locally, and presented even though it contained some ridiculous inaccuracies.

I couldn't care less who produced it or where, but I think it's obvious it wasn't done in Winnipeg.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

More than anything it was a dig at Winnipeg's stupid barricades.

The quote merely mentioned "china" and someone twitched.

Reality is, many renderings come from China. Other reality is, no reasonable person would assume a major city would allow a major intersection to have barricades.

^ this person gets it!

Exactly.

[bomberjet]

Yeah, it's fine. I really don't care.