Canadian City Proposals - Page 290

TorontoDrew · #**5781** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 2:24 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok

Most urban shopping environments were built before large indoor malls were feasible, so they couldn't do any better. As for malls that fail, those usually don't fail in isolation (unless management is really bad). Usually a dead mall has dead streets in close proximity.

Huntsville Place Mall DEAD, Huntsville King Street busy year round and they get extreme weather up there. Both are a stones throw from each other.

Beedok · #**5782** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 2:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Huntsville Place Mall DEAD, Huntsville King Street busy year round and they get extreme weather up there. Both are a stones throw from each other.

Assuming I'm finding the right Huntsville Place Mall that seems to be a suburban mall in a small town. Now really comparable to a downtown mall in a large city. (It also looks to be basically a stip mall, but it's hard to tell from google streetview.)

dleung · #**5783** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 2:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dleung

Upcoming tower project between Church and Asquith. You heard it on here first

REally? not a peep? I promise it's not a Casa

Renders will be available in a month or two.

Innsertnamehere · #**5784** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 3:07 AM**

Huntsville is the main town servicing Algonquin Park though.. its sort of like Banff. A huge portion of its business (although less than Banff's) is seasonal tourism.. and most businesses downtown service either tourists or cottagers. Cottagers don't want to "go into town" to go to a mall like at home in Toronto, and tourists don't want that either. Thus the downtown does well.

A better example may be Lindsay, which has a reasonably half decent downtown (nothing crazy either, but the town is pretty low income), and its mall is dead. Its a tiny little mall... but it all it really had was a Target, and now that is gone.

TorontoDrew · #**5785** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 3:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok

Assuming I'm finding the right Huntsville Place Mall that seems to be a suburban mall in a small town. Now really comparable to a downtown mall in a large city. (It also looks to be basically a stip mall, but it's hard to tell from google streetview.)

It's a mall not a strip mall. And Huntsville is not a suburb. Anyway, you're the one who said a dead mall usually equals a dead high street. I can't think of a single case in any of Canada's big cities where that holds true.

WhipperSnapper · #**5786** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 3:35 AM**

OMG! A new upcoming tower development in Toronto! (Well, new to Dleung)

esquire · #**5787** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 4:00 PM**

At long last a likely new tallest proposed for Winnipeg at the 35 years+ vacant south pad at Winnipeg Square near Portage and Main. It's residential, reported to be rental apartments but possibly with some condo element. Artis REIT is for real so unlike with Skycity where a great deal of skepticism remains, if Artis says they're doing it, it's going to happen.

No details, no numbers or anything yet, the press conference begins right away but Biff graciously shared this image:

Souce: Biff

WhipperSnapper · #**5788** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 5:05 PM**

Fortress is shady but, they have co-developed thousands of residential units. I'm curious. What has Artis actually built and not just acquired? The REIT's value is looking pretty grim too. I wouldn't place one development above the other. Both have an equally good shot of being built.

HomeInMyShoes · #**5789** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 5:22 PM**

I hate the getting bigger at the top perspective in rendering.

esquire · #**5790** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 5:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Fortress is shady but, they have co-developed thousands of residential units. I'm curious. What has Artis actually built and not just acquired? The REIT's value is looking pretty grim too. I wouldn't place one development above the other. Both have an equally good shot of being built.

Artis has built loads of commercial developments, although I'm not sure what if any highrises they have to their credit. It's mostly power centre/office park kinds of stuff.

Their CEO, Armin Martens, I believe has developed several residential highrises in Winnipeg in his pre-Artis REIT days.

drew · #**5791** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 6:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Fortress is shady but, they have co-developed thousands of residential units. I'm curious. What has Artis actually built and not just acquired? The REIT's value is looking pretty grim too. I wouldn't place one development above the other. Both have an equally good shot of being built.

They have some good value on this development that makes this almost certain to go ahead:

They acquired the property that included among other things, the leased out office tower, an underground mall, a huge and hugely profitable underground parkade AND the foundation in place for this new proposal.

They just have to fasten some baseplates on and start going up. Not having to do a foundation is a MASSIVE cost savings in Winnipeg.

beatlesque · #**5792** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 6:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

I hate the getting bigger at the top perspective in rendering.

I think it mostly just looks like that b/c of the oversized render above. Cyro re-sized it in the local forum, also showing the re-cladding of its neighbour.

Beedok · #**5793** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 6:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

It's a mall not a strip mall. And Huntsville is not a suburb.

I didn't say Huntsville was a suburb, I said that the mall was suburban. It's a small town, so the suburbs aren't far from the core, but it's still on the edge of the city.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Anyway, you're the one who said a dead mall usually equals a dead high street. I can't think of a single case in any of Canada's big cities where that holds true.

I can't think of any dead malls in a city core that don't have equally or more dead streets nearby. Jackson Square in Hamilton was dead for a while, but surrounding streets were mostly worse, and the mall has recovered stronger. Victoriaville Mall in Thunder Bay is fairly dead, but the streets around it are honestly kind of frightening. Most of the other dead malls I can think of are in suburban locations, while the bulk of urban malls in Canada are quite healthy.

TorontoDrew · #**5794** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 6:54 PM**

Right so then high streets in urban centres do do well then. I think we are both agreeing on this.

HillStreetBlues · #**5795** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 7:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok

Most of the other dead malls I can think of are in suburban locations, while the bulk of urban malls in Canada are quite healthy.

Galleria Mall in London is dying; the health of its high street retail in the downtown core is probably debatable.

Centre Mall in Hamilton is gone, while Ottawa Street thrives. Market Square in Kitchener is in dire straits, while Kitchener's downtown more generally is resurging.

I agree that suburban malls are doing worse than urban ones, but those downtown malls that were once so popular in all mid-sized Canadian cities are in many cases gone, and only some of them are doing very well. I agree with you that Jackson Square is doing better lately, but it's a bit soon to say that either it or downtown Hamilton's other retail are thriving.

WhipperSnapper · #**5796** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 8:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew

They have some good value on this development that makes this almost certain to go ahead:

They acquired the property that included among other things, the leased out office tower, an underground mall, a huge and hugely profitable underground parkade AND the foundation in place for this new proposal.

They just have to fasten some baseplates on and start going up. Not having to do a foundation is a MASSIVE cost savings in Winnipeg.

They are in a horrible position in Alberta which could really screw their distribution, share price and, release of new shares to build this. I give both towers a pretty good chance. It's naive to say that this one is all but guaranteed.

WhipperSnapper · #**5797** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 8:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Right so then high streets in urban centres do do well then. I think we are both agreeing on this.

Some of Toronto's community main streets are being strangled by high assessment values and a high commercial tax rate. It's rather sad as the potential is there.

#**5798** Posted **Apr 8, 2016, 4:45 PM**

Content removed

HomeInMyShoes · #**5799** Posted **Apr 8, 2016, 5:05 PM**

While Hamilton razes character in the core they attempt to build faux-history in suburbia? This sounds interesting, but I think it's going to end in mockery. If looking at pictures of The Villages in Florida is any indication its going to age poorly.

O-tacular · #**5800** Posted **Apr 8, 2016, 5:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

While Hamilton razes character in the core they attempt to build faux-history in suburbia? This sounds interesting, but I think it's going to end in mockery. If looking at pictures of The Villages in Florida is any indication its going to age poorly.

I agree. Kill it with fire!