Canadian City Proposals - Page 289

caltrane74 · #**5761** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 12:12 AM**

Something in Burlington

Urbannizer · #**5762** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 1:39 PM**

More renders of Humphreys & Partner's design proposal for the Ratz-Bechtel site in Kitchener.

Quote:

3 Towers: 30 Stories, 21 Stories, 15 Stories
815 Total Units, 680 Avg. SF Per Unit, 5.221 Total Acres
90,000 SF Retail, 78,500 SF Office, 544,000 SF Residential

http://hpaurban.com/portfolio-item/king-street-west/

kwoldtimer · #**5763** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 1:45 PM**

Is that a refinement of the concept shown a few weeks back, or is this from a different firm from the earlier one? It would be interesting to see how the proposals are going to deal with the huge retaining wall along King St.

Beedok · #**5764** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 2:18 PM**

I don't understand all these new open air podium shopping things. They're only useful for part of six months out of twelve (they're not good for the rainy or very hot days either).

kwoldtimer · #**5765** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 2:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok

I don't understand all these new open air podium shopping things. They're only useful for part of six months out of twelve (they're not good for the rainy or very hot days either).

I'm sure the walkways will be open year-round. In any event, I doubt this bears much resemblance to what eventually gets built.

rapid_business · #**5766** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 2:30 PM**

2nd level retail like that sucks. It sucks from an operators perspective and from an user. It's isolated from the ground level and never works well.

kwoldtimer · #**5767** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 2:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rapid_business

2nd level retail like that sucks. It sucks from an operators perspective and from an user. It's isolated from the ground level and never works well.

From the King St frontage that might be approximately the street level, I think. That is why I'm interested in how these proposals are going to deal with the retaining wall and what the street side pedestrian experience is going to be. It seems like a big design challenge to me.

Beedok · #**5768** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 2:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I'm sure the walkways will be open year-round. In any event, I doubt this bears much resemblance to what eventually gets built.

It'll be open, but do you really want to be at an open air shopping area when it's 2 degrees and raining? Or there's slush and salt everywhere? Malls are busy all year round, while outdoor commercial strips have a definite seasonality to them.

rapid_business · #**5769** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 2:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

From the King St frontage that might be approximately the street level, I think. That is why I'm interested in how these proposals are going to deal with the retaining wall and what the street side pedestrian experience is going to be. It seems like a big design challenge to me.

The street side consideration looks terrible:

U/G parking access right off King Street. No at-grade pedestrian access. Grade changes with large walls. Terrible.

kwoldtimer · #**5770** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 3:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rapid_business

The street side consideration looks terrible:

U/G parking access right off King Street. No at-grade pedestrian access. Grade changes with large walls. Terrible.

That is the design challenge I was referring to - the construction of the new King St underpass makes a retaining wall on the King Street side inevitable. I see in the render above that they have mitigated very slightly by putting an access ramp at the spot where the retaining wall would be highest, right beside the tracks (for traffic reasons, this would be the last place you'd put an access ramp). Unless there is some way to lower the entire site, I am not sure how they are going to get around this.

kwoldtimer · #**5771** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 3:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok

It'll be open, but do you really want to be at an open air shopping area when it's 2 degrees and raining? Or there's slush and salt everywhere? Malls are busy all year round, while outdoor commercial strips have a definite seasonality to them.

How does this differ from other urban environments? Keep in mind that Downtown Kitchener had two large indoor malls, both of which failed.

esquire · #**5772** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 3:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok

I don't understand all these new open air podium shopping things. They're only useful for part of six months out of twelve (they're not good for the rainy or very hot days either).

They have really become the latest and greatest thing, haven't they? I'm not sure if Burnaby pioneered that type of configuration, but that's what I associate it with... Burnabyism?

Innsertnamehere · #**5773** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 4:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

That is the design challenge I was referring to - the construction of the new King St underpass makes a retaining wall on the King Street side inevitable. I see in the render above that they have mitigated very slightly by putting an access ramp at the spot where the retaining wall would be highest, right beside the tracks (for traffic reasons, this would be the last place you'd put an access ramp). Unless there is some way to lower the entire site, I am not sure how they are going to get around this.

umm.. dig down a level? You are already excavating for parking.. just put retail instead.

kwoldtimer · #**5774** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 4:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

umm.. dig down a level? You are already excavating for parking.. just put retail instead.

I don't know. I think the parking would be at least partly podium. The area, like much of what is now Downtown, is former swampland so there could be water table issues. That's not fatal, but I'd wonder how that would play out with the soon-to-be much lower King St?

In any event, it's a prime site so it will be interesting to follow.

Beedok · #**5775** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 4:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

How does this differ from other urban environments? Keep in mind that Downtown Kitchener had two large indoor malls, both of which failed.

Most urban shopping environments were built before large indoor malls were feasible, so they couldn't do any better. As for malls that fail, those usually don't fail in isolation (unless management is really bad). Usually a dead mall has dead streets in close proximity.

isaidso · #**5776** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 6:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok

I don't understand all these new open air podium shopping things. They're only useful for part of six months out of twelve (they're not good for the rainy or very hot days either).

A sizable proportion of the population love high street shopping and can't stand going to malls. Malls also kill street life for blocks in every direction. The Eaton Centre in Toronto is the only area I've ever been where there are enough people around that there's still a level of vibrancy on the street despite the presence of an enclosed mall.

I even avoid malls in the dead of winter. I visit a mall (reluctantly) maybe 2-3 times/year. Honestly, I'd rather they built proper high streets than these hybrid open air malls. That Kitchener proposal seems like the worst of both worlds. You don't get an enclosed mall but you don't get a proper high street of retail either.

GreatTallNorth2 · #**5777** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 7:01 PM**

Pretty much a game changer for Kitchener, they don't have anything close to 30 floors in the downtown. Great to see them growing up.

WhipperSnapper · #**5778** Posted **Apr 6, 2016, 7:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok

I don't understand all these new open air podium shopping things. They're only useful for part of six months out of twelve (they're not good for the rainy or very hot days either).

Cheap.

dleung · #**5779** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 1:58 AM**

Upcoming tower project between Church and Asquith. You heard it on here first

TorontoDrew · #**5780** Posted **Apr 7, 2016, 2:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok

It'll be open, but do you really want to be at an open air shopping area when it's 2 degrees and raining? Or there's slush and salt everywhere? Malls are busy all year round, while outdoor commercial strips have a definite seasonality to them.

Yes, that's why I'd rather shop on a high street then in a mall. I'd rather dress for the weather and be outside then in a mall any day. Also 6 months a year? Too hot too cold? I'd hate to be a slave to the weather. Yes malls are busy year round but so are successful commercial strips, they are just as busy.