Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[alecz_dad]

Certainly part of the sales job for the development was that it would be a green, well-treed place. So, here are some of the aspirational images of how the streets would look.







But as it turns out, all the trees that had been planted along Marche Way and Exhibition Way in the shopping centre area died, or were cut down.



I suppose it's no surprise that the trees died. If you look on those streets now, the blank square covers in the sidewalk towards the street, show just how small the openings around the trees were.
And given that the whole area was excavated for the parking garage underneath (and that the area has a high water table, so they had to build the garage quite close to the surface) I suspect that an inadequate amount of soil depth was allowed for trees to be able to establish themselves.

The trees were dead and gone last summer. They didn't replant in the fall. I guess we'll see if they start planting this spring. Time is running short; they need to have them in the ground several months before summer if they're to get established before the height of summer.

Here's hoping (but not overly optimistic).

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Lansdowne is infinitely more animated during warmer months when sports and patios are in full swing (duh).

A major thing lacking at Lansdowne is greenery (gasp!). The place is in dire need of some trees and/or planters to inject some color into the area.

Weren't there trees originally in place that died? Either way, it should be a priority to add some (back).

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

It seems to me that those trees were supposed to be watered by an underground irrigation system. It failed.

Can it be fixed? Do they want to spend the money to fix it?

[alecz_dad]

However, if you're not headed to one of those things, there's not much else to draw someone in.
I can't see that people would be doing a lot of shopping before or after the few dozen game and concert days a year.
Most people come to Lansdowne, do whatever they're there for, and then get in their cars and go home.

And I haven't noticed a whole lot of positive impact on the businesses in the ACTUAL Glebe.
Indeed, if you check out the block of Bank between Fourth and Fifth, most of the storefronts in the Minto-owned Fifth Avenue Court have been empty for a long time. Sushi Go, was shuttered by Minto just the other week.



Theories range: from Minto wanting to push potential tenants into the many still-empty spaces at Lansdowne, to them having jacked up rents to reflect a "close-to-Lansdowne premium," to their desire to gradually empty out Fifth Ave Court so they can knock it all down.

Either way, it makes that stretch of Bank pretty barren, and local business owners worry it reflects badly on their businesses.

Thanks Roger Greenberg.

Originally Posted by ars

I can think of 4 reasons right off the top of my head without thinking on it:

67
Redblacks
Cineplex
Concerts

[alecz_dad]

Excellent questions.

I suspect that Lansdowne's street trees will remain in the limbo between the City and OSEG, no one wanting to take responsibility for yet another broken promise.

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

It seems to me that those trees were supposed to be watered by an underground irrigation system. It failed.

Can it be fixed? Do they want to spend the money to fix it?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

Don't forget that in the past Lansdowne operations were about revenue neutral, once rental revenues were considered.

But all those revenues to the City have been lost, since all the meeting space in the Civic Centre were pushed out in the sweetheart deal with Shenkman to build that nasty barn with no transit stop by the Airport.

And don't forget, that OSEG browbeat the City into helping pay for the roof repairs, when it seems pretty clear that such an overrun should have been OSEG's responsibility.

Because, wasn't that the whole idea with entering into a P3 for this project?: to protect City taxpayers from unanticipated additional costs?
You know, the private capitalist takes the risk, so they reap the rewards.

But sometimes they have to 🞵🞵🞵🞵 extra costs up. Unless they're already in bed with the other party to the contract, and then they make it clear that they'll litigate, so it would be cheaper for the City just to give in.

Loath as I am to get back into this debate again, I really dislike the constant misinformation being spread.

- Not sure how a link to court loss by FOL and a report on the airport RFP process demonstrate revenue neutrality, but let's say that they somehow do. Even if Lansdowne was "revenue neutral" in its final years, that was only because they weren't adequately maintaining it. You may recall that the place was falling apart before the renos. To maintain it to any kind of viable standard would have required much more expenditure.

- OSEG didn't browbeat the City into paying for anything. They guaranteed a loan, which is not remotely the same thing. Also not sure how being "in bed" with a party to a contract increases the risk of threats of litigation.

- The EY Centre was not a "sweetheart deal". It was the result of an open, competitive process.

These points were wrong 5 years ago and they remain wrong today.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Boxster

I wonder if the Olympics of Gatineau will ever get to play at Lansdowne given that Guertin Arena is on its final miles and that a new stadium is still nowhere in sight. Would also be interesting to see what attendance they could attract.

It's possible if they don't opt to just pack up and move. The 67s played at Guertin for a few months back in, you guessed it, 1967.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by m3i6

Could be the Username (think vintage 🞵🞵🞵🞵 names) but most likely the email used to create the account was associated to a previously banned account.

Didn't notice until you mentioned it. My guess: a bit of both.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It's possible if they don't opt to just pack up and move. The 67s played at Guertin for a few months back in, you guessed it, 1967.

Gatineau is a pretty important market for the Q, and they have a long track record of viability. I can't see the league agreeing to a move without making some big efforts to find a solution.

Not sure that the Olympiques would draw so well in Ottawa. It seems that the vast majority of their fans are from the Quebec side, so they may have trouble drawing at Lansdowne after the initial novelty wears off. That said, I was wondering whether they could piggyback on the Sens at Lebreton. The fact that they are outside Quebec might ruffle some feathers, but it would be a pretty convenient location (albeit an outsized arena).

[eemy]

Originally Posted by phil235

Gatineau is a pretty important market for the Q, and they have a long track record of viability. I can't see the league agreeing to a move without making some big efforts to find a solution.

Not sure that the Olympiques would draw so well in Ottawa. It seems that the vast majority of their fans are from the Quebec side, so they may have trouble drawing at Lansdowne after the initial novelty wears off. That said, I was wondering whether they could piggyback on the Sens at Lebreton. The fact that they are outside Quebec might ruffle some feathers, but it would be a pretty convenient location (albeit an outsized arena).

Perhaps one of the practice sheets would have stands?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Perhaps one of the practice sheets would have stands?

I'm sure they will have stands - for minor hockey tournaments, open practices etc. I doubt they would go so far as to have 4-5000 seats, plus concessions, boxes etc. that would be required for the Q. Even if they were inclined to spend the money to do that, I don't think Ottawa needs two junior-sized arenas downtown.

More likely the Sens partner with the Olympiques to build something like that in Gatineau.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by phil235

More likely the Sens partner with the Olympiques to build something like that in Gatineau.

I thought this was already agreed upon and comfirmed by the Sens? I was under the impression they were to build another Sensplex in Gatineau with a larger main arena to house the Olympiques. It gives the Olympiques a long-term solution and gives the Sens a stronger foothold on the QC side.

If the O's have to play at Lansdowne for a season in between it'll be a rough season indeed.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I thought this was already agreed upon and comfirmed by the Sens? I was under the impression they were to build another Sensplex in Gatineau with a larger main arena to house the Olympiques. It gives the Olympiques a long-term solution and gives the Sens a stronger foothold on the QC side.

If the O's have to play at Lansdowne for a season in between it'll be a rough season indeed.

I haven't seen any confirmation of that since the news stories about that possibility in the fall. Given the deadline for demolition of the Bob, I can't imagine that the Os wouldn't be pursuing this aggressively. It does sound like the best solution, but I expect that it will unfortunately involve a move out of Hull.

One season at Lansdowne would be okay, and very good for Lansdowne as a whole. I think the novelty would keep people coming out for that long. As with the 67s in Kanata, they would be a secondary tenant and would have to expect a lot of games on odd nights like Mondays and Wednesdays.

[jitterbug]

Ottawans love their cars and that's another problem for Lansdowne. There is nary a car to be seen in the renders, and yet the reality is quite the opposite --on-street parking is convenient for quick stops (as I've done there myself), but what does that do for the esthetics at ground level? Basically what you have there is a compressed big-box mall: plenty of asphalt and metal, precious little greenery (and the big open field at the canal side doesn't exactly cut it either).

It's a shame there's not a unique draw there that would bring locals and tourists there year-round, like an indoor theme park along the lines of the West Edmonton mall. As some folks here have pointed out, events at the arena or stadium are fine, but how many people actually linger in the 'hood either before or after the event?

I'm still hopeful Lansdowne will find its niche though it might take awhile.

[teej1984]

I really dont get what you people want(ed). WAHN WAHN WAHN is what I see from a good number of ppl on here. I, in fact, love going to Landsdown and so do my friends. Maybe it's a demographics thing (we're 25-35), but with Goodlife, Local, Joey's and VIP Cinemas all there, it is an attractive destination for me. Plus, the lawn will be great this summer for frisbee, soccer, etc. I've never had problems parking, but I much prefer biking or Uber-ing there! It will get even better with time, but it is a far superior space than what existed before. I dont expect people from Kanata, Farrhaven or Orleans to make regular trips there, and I dont really want them to! This is an urban space that is doing just fine for people who live nearby and within a 15-20 minute distance.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by jitterbug

As some folks here have pointed out, events at the arena or stadium are fine, but how many people actually linger in the 'hood either before or after the event?

Errrr, many, many, hundreds, if not thousands, do. The place is bustling on event days.

Every time I went there for the Women's World Cup last year it was nuts. Same goes for Redblacks games. Ditto for the Brier just past.

Even when nothing's going on event-wise, on a typical Friday or Saturday night in summer, the place is nuts. Never been on a weeknight so can't comment on that.

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Errrr, many, many, hundreds, if not thousands, do. The place is bustling on event days.

Every time I went there for the Women's World Cup last year it was nuts. Same goes for Redblacks games. Ditto for the Brier just past.

Even when nothing's going on event-wise, on a typical Friday or Saturday night in summer, the place is nuts. Never been on a weeknight so can't comment on that.

Absolutely right, that is my experience as well. I have been to many events and it is very busy before and after.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by teej1984

I really dont get what you people want(ed). WAHN WAHN WAHN is what I see from a good number of ppl on here. I, in fact, love going to Landsdown and so do my friends. Maybe it's a demographics thing (we're 25-35), but with Goodlife, Local, Joey's and VIP Cinemas all there, it is an attractive destination for me. Plus, the lawn will be great this summer for frisbee, soccer, etc. I've never had problems parking, but I much prefer biking or Uber-ing there! It will get even better with time, but it is a far superior space than what existed before. I dont expect people from Kanata, Farrhaven or Orleans to make regular trips there, and I dont really want them to! This is an urban space that is doing just fine for people who live nearby and within a 15-20 minute distance.

It's not generational: I'm turning 25 in June and I don't like Lansdowne as it is. It's because there isn't much of an urban experience to be had, the businesses are rather typical big box chains, and there are too many cars and otherwise there's not a whole lots else to do. The best feature is a grocery store at this end of the Glebe and a movie theatre (which is the only major movie theatre downtown).

The only time I've visited is during the summer (it's seriously inconvenient to go to the Glebe from Hintonburg without a car) and I haven't found it to be as lively as one would hope it to be. There are too many cars, the streets and plaza were designed with cars in mind instead of what's inviting to people. There's an oddly strong wind blowing through that causes a loud whistling sound as it whips around buildings and trees, and the businesses aren't interesting. There are better and more interesting restaurants and stores elsewhere in the city where I'd rather hangout with friends. The buildings aren't the best either, save for the condos.

I think people are disappointed because the sort of area Lansdowne was advertised as and represented in various graphics was an overly ambitious and ideal version of an urban space Lansdowne could become but ultimately didn't. Ottawa tends to fail on urbanism and architecture, and while this development is better than the windswept parking lot it used to be, it doesn't make me crave revisiting.

Also, the City dropped the ball on making it more accessible. They could have made it easier to access by bike (Bank Street) and invested in public transit to get people there. They also wasted money on a new parking garage that is rarely at capacity that could easily have replaced street-side parking with a segregated bike lane.

I'm unfamiliar with the legal and design limitations of working with the site, but I think the urban design and architecture could have been made more inspiring. Ottawa may be lacking in good city life, but there are definitely other places that are easier to get to that are much more interesting to visit than Lansdowne. It had amazing potential - like what I hope with Chaudiere Islands - but that was squandered by an uninspiring design.

[jitterbug]

OK, point taken, the place is hopping when events are happening at the arena or stadium. I guess the problem is, how often is that and will it be enough to sustain all those restaurants? I admit I've been to Lansdowne only at non-event times, both summer and winter, and you could practically hear a pin drop it was so quiet. Design wise, the new buildings are uninspiring -- they would fit in quite well in any suburban business park. Thank goodness for the remaining historical buildings, notably the Aberdeen Pavilion and restored Horticulture building that add a bit of style.

That said, I think we all agree it's far better than what Lansdowne was for decades. I'm 51 and so old enough to have attended many a rock concert at the Civic Centre arena or outdoors at the stadium -- everything from David Bowie to Pink Floyd and Black Sabbath. Hey, I even did a stint as a parking attendant, directing traffic out of the parking lot after events. And even then I thought the place was dumpy.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Urbanarchit

It's not generational: I'm turning 25 in June and I don't like Lansdowne as it is. It's because there isn't much of an urban experience to be had, the businesses are rather typical big box chains, and there are too many cars and otherwise there's not a whole lots else to do. The best feature is a grocery store at this end of the Glebe and a movie theatre (which is the only major movie theatre downtown).

The only time I've visited is during the summer (it's seriously inconvenient to go to the Glebe from Hintonburg without a car) and I haven't found it to be as lively as one would hope it to be. There are too many cars, the streets and plaza were designed with cars in mind instead of what's inviting to people. There's an oddly strong wind blowing through that causes a loud whistling sound as it whips around buildings and trees, and the businesses aren't interesting. There are better and more interesting restaurants and stores elsewhere in the city where I'd rather hangout with friends. The buildings aren't the best either, save for the condos.

I think people are disappointed because the sort of area Lansdowne was advertised as and represented in various graphics was an overly ambitious and ideal version of an urban space Lansdowne could become but ultimately didn't. Ottawa tends to fail on urbanism and architecture, and while this development is better than the windswept parking lot it used to be, it doesn't make me crave revisiting.

Also, the City dropped the ball on making it more accessible. They could have made it easier to access by bike (Bank Street) and invested in public transit to get people there. They also wasted money on a new parking garage that is rarely at capacity that could easily have replaced street-side parking with a segregated bike lane.

I'm unfamiliar with the legal and design limitations of working with the site, but I think the urban design and architecture could have been made more inspiring. Ottawa may be lacking in good city life, but there are definitely other places that are easier to get to that are much more interesting to visit than Lansdowne. It had amazing potential - like what I hope with Chaudiere Islands - but that was squandered by an uninspiring design.

Improved bike infrastructure will come with time, however, it is already one of the best served areas in the city already. I don't think it is realistic to expect segregated bike lanes on Bank Street, way too narrow.

Regarding parking, I am not sure what you expect. If we want the restaurants and theatres to survive, there needs to be parking and on street parking is already quite congested and would have given Glebe residents more ammunition to oppose the project.

I have used transit to get there (not good enough except during major events), parked in the garage and on streets in the Glebe and Ottawa South. I live too far away for biking to be practical or pleasant.

[TheGoods]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Errrr, many, many, hundreds, if not thousands, do. The place is bustling on event days.

Every time I went there for the Women's World Cup last year it was nuts. Same goes for Redblacks games. Ditto for the Brier just past.

Even when nothing's going on event-wise, on a typical Friday or Saturday night in summer, the place is nuts. Never been on a weeknight so can't comment on that.

I can concur, I have been on many occasions but not in the last 2 months (have been hibernating) and there is a wait time for all the restaurants and for some, can be up to 2 hours for Joey’s on a Friday or Saturday night. Last summer, even on a weeknight, there was a wait time of at least 1 hour for Joey’s and Local’s.