Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by mykl

While I agree that there should be more of a shelter, you're all forgetting that you wont be waiting up to 30 minutes at Hurdman anymore (depending on your route). You will come and go much quicker with the train.

Remember, going outbound you are transferring from a train to a bus. In the case of Route 149, which runs only once every 2 hours or so, you can wait an awful long time. That is an extreme example but many routes only run every 30 minutes.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Remember, going outbound you are transferring from a train to a bus. In the case of Route 149, which runs only once every 2 hours or so, you can wait an awful long time. That is an extreme example but many routes only run every 30 minutes.

If you're waiting for a bus that runs so infrequently that Hurdman is a timing point, you'll wait where the CRUs are in the built up section of the station, as long as the schedule board is somewhat accurate.

Also, why aren't 148 and 149 turned into a twice as frequent one way loop? It might not be much better, but you're a little better - especially considering that the routes' purposes are to provide social service.

With the hospital location study, are they keeping the existing site as well? Calgary is in a similar situation with our main hospital - removed from the university campus, just far enough away from train/transit way service to need dedicated transport.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by mykl

While I agree that there should be more of a shelter, you're all forgetting that you wont be waiting up to 30 minutes at Hurdman anymore (depending on your route). You will come and go much quicker with the train.

Depends on what direction you are travelling at what time of day, and how aggressive OC Transpo planners get in slashing local bus service to improve it post-LRT.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Doesn't seem to be much shelter for waiting bus passengers at all. And that is where passengers will be waiting the longest. Maybe I am not seeing this incorrectly, but it seems that some of the bus waiting locations are a significant walk from the LRT station and you have to walk the long way around the island to get there.

Another symptom of a transit plan designed and built by people who don't actually use public transit.

[mykl]

Um, everyone who is discussing waiting for buses in the freezing cold... You'll literally be standing in the exact type of little shelter you find throughout the city and currently at the Hurdman temporary station. It is called a bus stop. They're not building a 4 star hotel for you to wait for your bus in.

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by mykl

Um, everyone who is discussing waiting for buses in the freezing cold... You'll literally be standing in the exact type of little shelter you find throughout the city and currently at the Hurdman temporary station. It is called a bus stop. They're not building a 4 star hotel for you to wait for your bus in.

While we're at at, why have shelters at all? Anybody worth their salt should be taking their climate-controlled car, and the chumps waiting for local bus service at one of the busiest stations of Ottawa's marquee light rail line don't deserve an investment that pays off in passenger comfort for decades.

[eltodesukane]

Originally Posted by Admiral Nelson

While we're at at, why have shelters at all? Anybody worth their salt should be taking their climate-controlled car, and the chumps waiting for local bus service at one of the busiest stations of Ottawa's marquee light rail line don't deserve an investment that pays off in passenger comfort for decades.

Yes, this is exactly the current situation, with no change on the horizon.
Anybody who can afford it is already taking their climate-controlled car.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

Yes, this is exactly the current situation, with no change on the horizon.
Anybody who can afford it is already taking their climate-controlled car.

I would suspect the main building would be at least reasonably climate controlled (it doesn't need to be warm enough for shorts in the winter or cool enough for sweaters in the summer heat). People could wait there until their bus is coming. It would have been better if the station was a bit further west so that it was centred on the bus loop instead of at the far end. Not sure how many people use Hurdman as their final destination.

There is also lots of land, so there is no reason they couldn't allow a few coffee shops, counter service restaurants and convenience stores to be built nearby (possibly attached) for people to go to while waiting. If they leased the land, it would be an alternate revenue stream for OC Transpo.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by mykl

Um, everyone who is discussing waiting for buses in the freezing cold... You'll literally be standing in the exact type of little shelter you find throughout the city and currently at the Hurdman temporary station. It is called a bus stop. They're not building a 4 star hotel for you to wait for your bus in.

It's called a transit station. There are going to be a lot more people using it than your average bus stop. The temporary Hurdman shelter, like the temporary Baseline shelter, is utterly inadequate, as is the shelter, if built per the renderings, for the future Hurdman bus loop.

Shelter is not a luxury or a frill, especially not in a city like Ottawa that has about six weeks of human-comfortable weather in the spring and fall, and that's it.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Shelter is not a luxury or a frill, especially not in a city like Ottawa that has about six weeks of human-comfortable weather in the spring and fall, and that's it.

Agreed. If the city wants people to use transit, they need to make it convenient and reasonably comfortable. We are transitioning from a system where most people working downtown can get there with one bus to a system where most people will have to transfer. That on its own will discourage some people from using the system. If you make that transfer miserable, it could have a profound negative effect.

[rocketphish]

Construction Update
Week of April 4

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Waterproofing continues in the transition east of Lyon Station cavern

Lyon Station

In Lyon Station cavern, crews continue pouring concrete for the L-wall and waterproofing the station arch. In the transition east of Lyon Station cavern, crews continue waterproofing, installing rebar and pouring concrete, part of tunnel arch final lining.

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Excavation progress in Parliament Station cavern

Parliament Station

In Parliament Station cavern, crews excavate the remaining sections. In the running tunnel, mining continues moving east toward the Rideau Canal and support activities such as shotcrete and rockbolt installations are ongoing.

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Shotcrete is installed in Rideau Station cavern

Rideau Station

In Rideau Station cavern, Crocodile Rouge continues mining the central pillar and cavern support activities such as shotcrete are ongoing.

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Shoring activities continue at Rideau Station west entrance

Downtown Integrated Stations and Entrances – Lyon, Parliament and Rideau Stations

Lyon Station west entrance: crews continue blasting and install shotcrete as part of support activities. At the HVAC shaft, crews install wiremesh and spray shotcrete. At the west vent shaft, excavation and tieback installation are ongoing. At the east vent shaft, crews begin piling.

Lyon Station east entrance: crews install formwork and rebar as part of column work. Demolition continues on the concourse and parking levels.

Parliament Station west entrance: on the parking level, crews install rebar, formwork and pour concrete for the escalator walls.

Parliament Station east entrance: on the concourse level, crews install structural steel, reinforce columns and pour concrete piers.

Traffic restrictions on Queen and O’Connor streets remain in effect.

Rideau Station east entrance: hoe ramming, material removals and excavation are ongoing.

Rideau Station west entrance: excavation is ongoing and crews continue installing whaler beams and tiebacks as part of support activities. At the west vent shaft on the north side of Rideau Street, drilling operations occur.

Traffic restrictions on Rideau Street remain in effect.

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Crews work on the walls at Tremblay Station

Tunney’s Pasture, Pimisi, Hurdman, Tremblay, St-Laurent, Cyrville and Blair Stations

Tunney’s Pasture Station: crews excavate to begin constructing the temporary bus loop.

Pimisi Station: site preparations and excavation are ongoing.

Hurdman Station: crews pour the mudslab and excavate for the escalators and elevators areas. Mobilization continues as part of permanent bus loop construction.

Tremblay Station: crews excavate the platform walls, install duct banks, pour walls and continue plumbing work.

St-Laurent Station: crews finalize the installation of the sanitary sewer and continue mechanical and electrical works. Excavation, backfilling and rebar installations are ongoing.

Cyrville Station: crews continue structural steel installations, backfilling and begin column work. Mechanical and electrical work also take place on the auxiliary building.

Blair Station: crews form the stairs, continue backfilling and pour the slab.

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Crews install formwork at the Booth Street Bridge

Guideway Construction – Booth Street Bridge, Hurdman Station and St-Laurent to Blair Stations

Booth Street Bridge: crews continue installing formwork on the deck and abutments.

Hurdman Station Elevated Guideway: crews continue installing the deck.

St-Laurent Station to Blair Station: trackwork, OCS foundation installations and duct bank work continue along the guideway.

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Upcoming Construction Activities

In the coming weeks, the following construction activities are scheduled to occur:

• Excavation of the ramp at West Portal.
• Excavation of the ramp at East Portal.
• Transitway service adjustment from Lees to Laurier stations.
• uOttawa Station construction.
• Mann Avenue Bridge rehabilitation.
• Lees Station construction.
• Watermain work near St-Laurent Station, along the guideway.
• Bus operators’ building construction at Blair Station.

In the coming months:

• Tunney’s Pasture Station construction.
• Bayview Station preliminary construction.
• Pimisi Station construction.

http://www.ligneconfederationline.ca/construction/construction-update-68/

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by mykl

Um, everyone who is discussing waiting for buses in the freezing cold... You'll literally be standing in the exact type of little shelter you find throughout the city and currently at the Hurdman temporary station. It is called a bus stop. They're not building a 4 star hotel for you to wait for your bus in.

By building LRT, we are adding transfers to a lot of passenger trips. We need to make this transfer as comfortable and seamless as possible. I don't understand why this transfer should involve passengers facing rain and snow at the most important transfer stations such as Hurdman.

It seems to me that the last time I was in Toronto, and I was at Kennedy station, you had a choice of waiting inside the station for your bus and walk directly to your bus on a covered platform. I guess we are just cheaping out as usual.

Considering that Hurdman is an elevated station, why isn't the bus island right under the station so that the bus transfers are arranged on both sides of the station to minimize walking and making sheltering the bus transfer easier? But, again it was all about doing this the cheapest way possible instead of considering what is best for the passengers.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Considering that Hurdman is an elevated station, why isn't the bus island right under the station so that the bus transfers are arranged on both sides of the station to minimize walking and making sheltering the bus transfer easier? But, again it was all about doing this the cheapest way possible instead of considering what is best for the passengers.

Either that or the designers never use transit and aren't able to think out side of the box and just replicated the existing layout as best they could.

There are many things about the new Hurdman station that make me think that the designers didn't have a clue and were only concerned about making something that looked beautiful in the 3D model (once all the glass is dirty and the metal starts to rust from all the salt, it won't look so pretty )

[eltodesukane]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I would suspect the main building would be at least reasonably climate controlled ..

which was never the case for the St Laurent station, or Hurdman station, or ..

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Considering that Hurdman is an elevated station, why isn't the bus island right under the station so that the bus transfers are arranged on both sides of the station to minimize walking and making sheltering the bus transfer easier? But, again it was all about doing this the cheapest way possible instead of considering what is best for the passengers.

Wouldnt want to cut off the MUPs on the North side... Bout the only reason I can think of.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Considering that Hurdman is an elevated station, why isn't the bus island right under the station so that the bus transfers are arranged on both sides of the station to minimize walking and making sheltering the bus transfer easier? But, again it was all about doing this the cheapest way possible instead of considering what is best for the passengers.

And the thing is, it doesn't really have to be "cheaping out".

Lansdowne's Bank Street frontage could have been designed and built to provide better shelter with no additional cost.

The entrance to the library and community centre on Lorry Greenberg could have been designed and built to double as a bus shelter at no additional cost.

The shelters at Temporary Baseline were installed months after the old station was demolished, due to some problem on the manufacturer's end, but temporary shelter was never considered to be an option. I was told that it would have cost "$10,000" to provide a stop-gap... about the cost of a city government junket to study sewage treatment practices in Denmark or something.

Just this morning I observed the upper level at Rideau Centre's big awning - which is pretty good as a passive shelter - could have been extended a little further out at no additional cost. Also, the benches, that might otherwise have provided convenience to waiting passengers, are located OUTSIDE that awning, exposed to precipitation and unshaded.

All of these things are predictable and easy to prevent, IF you design for transit users. But holy bloody frickin bleeping hell, Ottawa is bad at doing that.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Either that or the designers never use transit and aren't able to think out side of the box and just replicated the existing layout as best they could.

There are many things about the new Hurdman station that make me think that the designers didn't have a clue and were only concerned about making something that looked beautiful in the 3D model (once all the glass is dirty and the metal starts to rust from all the salt, it won't look so pretty )

I am deadly serious when I suggest that all renderings for any proposed public construction project should include accurately simulated winter images.

Today would be a good day to collect stock photos.

[lrt's friend]

What concerns me is that there is no real critical review going on regarding station designs, looking at it from the rider's perspective. We 'jump for joy' that we are getting a shiny new LRT system but we forget the details on how this is really going to work. The same is going to apply regarding the bus system reconfiguration. In many cases, poor design will not get noticed until opening day. In the case of station design, it is already too late and we are stuck with whatever the experts think is best for the next number of decades. Remember the Rideau bus mall that destroyed retail on Rideau Street and how long it took to get rid of the mess.

Yet, with proper critical review, most poor design can be predicted. I fear the mess that the bus reconfiguration will bring us.

Because we are going to see a system wide revision in 2018 like we have never experienced before, there are tremendous risks of making the rider experience worse instead of better. With good design, we can be more hopeful, but what are the chances that the 'experts' will get it right? We are now 2 years away, and no proposals have been presented that the public can digest. The proposal from the early days was really a system rationalization that was not going to improve service. Making people walk further (which takes more time) will almost certainly negate any benefits. We have already rationalized the system (read service cuts) so there better not be another one tied in with the opening of the Confederation Line.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Either that or the designers never use transit and aren't able to think out side of the box and just replicated the existing layout as best they could.

There are many things about the new Hurdman station that make me think that the designers didn't have a clue and were only concerned about making something that looked beautiful in the 3D model (once all the glass is dirty and the metal starts to rust from all the salt, it won't look so pretty )

Not sure if anyone has any knowledge about the design process on this project or how design-builds work, but I can tell you that OC Transpo and the City's Light Rail Office are very much steering the design in a certain direction on many aspects.

OC Transpo has a very long track record of making silly demands on the designer on one hand then totally cheaping out on their own stuff. For example, asking for Cadillac concrete platforms then installing multiple smallish shitty off-the-shelf shelters when a much larger fully enclosed structure is warranted. For all BRT platforms on the Confederation Line, OC Transpo is selecting and installing all the shelters and amenities, not RTG.

BTW, approximately 1/4 of our office takes transit to work everyday. Some even take it to reach the construction site for inspections or meetings.

[acottawa]

Too bad they don't post a photo of the layout of the station. It would be nice to know if the space under the platform is usable by passenger (some sort of a concourse where people could hang out waiting for their bus) or if it is blocked off and the only waiting place is those crappy shelters.