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  #5521  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2016, 8:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Daveography View Post
Oh please, don't play the victim, no one said you can't have an opinion. That doesn't mean the rest of us can't call you out on your opinion when it's complete nonsense, either.
Complete Nonsense? This building held no real sentimental value either than it's age before the recent renovations. This isn't the iconic eatons centre in Winnipeg or maple leaf gardens in Toronto. It's a run down warehouse among a bunch of other run down warehouses in downtown Edmonton. Yes they did a fair job on the interior and it will serve as a great spot on game days but that is now premium space and could have been served better by a new building/tower/shopping centre perhaps? At the very least an exterior refresh to fit in a little better with the billions of dollars being invested into Ice district?
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Last edited by Oilkountry; Apr 3, 2016 at 8:16 PM.
     
     
  #5522  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2016, 9:10 PM
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There's whole blocks of land in downtown Edmonton that should be filled in before we start dumping off attractive, useful old buildings downtown. I understand not liking the way it looks for whatever reason but the logistics of trying replace the mercer building are pretty far fetched. Other small scale old buildings will go way before mercer does. I personally think the old brick buildings add variety to a glass skyscraper landscape, but what do I know?
     
     
  #5523  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2016, 10:50 PM
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As a Calgarian, I'd happily trade a couple shiny skyscrapers for Edmonton's warehouse district. Calgary has few left, which is a real shame.
     
     
  #5524  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2016, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilkountry View Post
Complete Nonsense? This building held no real sentimental value either than it's age before the recent renovations. This isn't the iconic eatons centre in Winnipeg or maple leaf gardens in Toronto. It's a run down warehouse among a bunch of other run down warehouses in downtown Edmonton. Yes they did a fair job on the interior and it will serve as a great spot on game days but that is now premium space and could have been served better by a new building/tower/shopping centre perhaps? At the very least an exterior refresh to fit in a little better with the billions of dollars being invested into Ice district?
Preserving architectural heritage isn't always about sentimental value. Someone saw the value in the building, saw that the structure still had good enough bones that refurbishing it made more sense than demolishing it (i.e., not actually rundown), spent good money and effort on that refurbishment, found some absolutely top-quality tenants to fill it...

So now it has good caring ownership, both sentimental and economical value, brings life and activity to the areas...and you still think it should be torn down?

Yes, I stand my my comment: complete nonsense.
     
     
  #5525  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 1:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Trans Canada View Post
As a Calgarian, I'd happily trade a couple shiny skyscrapers for Edmonton's warehouse district. Calgary has few left, which is a real shame.
Many in Hamilton wish they could go back in a time machine and stop the tearing down of some amazing old buildings. Looks like Oilkountry is alone in his opinion.
     
     
  #5526  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 3:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Trans Canada View Post
As a Calgarian, I'd happily trade a couple shiny skyscrapers for Edmonton's warehouse district. Calgary has few left, which is a real shame.
Montreal will give you 50 warehouses for Brookfield place.
     
     
  #5527  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 4:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilkountry View Post
Complete Nonsense? This building held no real sentimental value either than it's age before the recent renovations. This isn't the iconic eatons centre in Winnipeg or maple leaf gardens in Toronto. It's a run down warehouse among a bunch of other run down warehouses in downtown Edmonton. Yes they did a fair job on the interior and it will serve as a great spot on game days but that is now premium space and could have been served better by a new building/tower/shopping centre perhaps? At the very least an exterior refresh to fit in a little better with the billions of dollars being invested into Ice district?
Do you really understand the use of the building now? I feel like it is actually an example of why older buildings are so valuable, they provide types of spaces that don't exist in newer builds that foster activities and business that are unlikely to exist in a new tower/shopping centre. I know we're probably not going to agree on this, but even if you don't like a 100 year old warehouse with ghost signage (which I happen to love)... I think you vastly underestimate how much this sort of building does for downtown and overestimate the value of shiny new towers. The only thing a new tower would do better, IMO, is possibly add interest to the skyline. By any other measure I can think of, the building is better as-is.
     
     
  #5528  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 5:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilkountry View Post
Complete Nonsense? This building held no real sentimental value either than it's age before the recent renovations. This isn't the iconic eatons centre in Winnipeg or maple leaf gardens in Toronto. It's a run down warehouse among a bunch of other run down warehouses in downtown Edmonton. Yes they did a fair job on the interior and it will serve as a great spot on game days but that is now premium space and could have been served better by a new building/tower/shopping centre perhaps? At the very least an exterior refresh to fit in a little better with the billions of dollars being invested into Ice district?
Run down? The exterior looks great. New windows too.

More towers and shopping centres? Isn't there enough within the Ice district?
     
     
  #5529  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 1:08 PM
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Private sector funds $240K arena study

http://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/6436772-dreschel-private-sector-funds-240k-arena-study/

The second phase of a $240,000 study on updating the aging city-owned FirstOntario Centre is now underway thanks to billionaire Ron Joyce and other private sector funders.

When complete, the study will include costed options for a possible two-phase transformation of the 30-year-old downtown arena.

The first phase could see the lower bowl turned into a state-of-the-art 8,000 or so seat facility.

The second phase could see the entire building upgraded to 21{+s}t-century NHL standards.

Along with Joyce, the Carmen's Group, FirstOntario Credit Union, LIUNA, and Fengate Capital have contributed money to pay for the study, according to Jasper Kujavsky, the consultant and lawyer who's stickhandling the initiative for the city.

Kujavsky declined to say if there are also other unnamed partners participating.

"I'm very excited and looking forward to when people can actually get a visual sense of what this building is capable of," he said.

That's expected to happen, complete with concept renderings, by late June

The report will also include a preliminary evaluation of turning the district around the 17,000-seat FirstOntario Centre — formerly called Copps Coliseum — into a sports/entertainment/hospitality precinct, which could include a new convention centre.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger says he's delighted the private sector stepped up to fund a detailed appraisal of the aging facility, which the city may have had difficulty finding the money for.

"I think the review or study of this is fundamentally important. Full Stop."

Eisenberger looks upon the private sector help as a "charitable donation" that comes with no strings attached if and when the city decides to upgrade or repurpose the arena and the surrounding area.

"They have a clear understanding that if some decision was made to expand or retrofit or whatever that a competitive process would ensue and they may or may not decide to be part of it."

Eisenberger is also pleased at the "positive and creative" way the review came together.

The city hired Kujavsky to co-ordinate it last year. In return for a $50,000 fee, Kujavsky undertook to drum up the necessary support.

He initially raised $100,000 to review the mechanical, electrical, structural and maintenance systems. He then raised an additional $140,000 to look at modernizing options, the piece now underway.

Kujavsky commissioned Toronto-based Brisbin Brook Beynon Architects (BBB) to do both the short and long-term work.

BBB are internationally recognized experts in sports-related venues. Among other facilities, they designed the Air Canada Centre in Toronto and led renovations at Madison Square Gardens in New York, Calgary's Saddledome, and Edmonton's Rexall Place.

According to Kujavsky, BBB's initial report, which hasn't been released, shows that FirstOntario Centre is in good shape. Certain features and designs elements need refreshing, but overall it has "good bones."

Kujavsky notes the load-bearing capacity of the roof has proven to be a significant part of the appraisal.

"It goes without saying that a roof designed 30 years ago is not the same as a roof designed today. Buildings have changed in regards to their load-bearing capacity and it's a fact that touring shows today have heavier rigs and lighting equipment."

Presumably, the second part of the study will provide options for dealing with that and other issues.

Kujavsky estimates that full transformation into an NHL-ready arena would cost about $300 million. He figures a standalone lower bowl conversion would cost about $100 million.

Obviously, the city is not in position to afford either at the moment. But as city manager Chris Murray noted when he hired Kujavsky, the review will spell out the kind of money needed to maintain the building in its current form, as well as prepare the city to take advantage of any opportunities that may arise.

The fact that the city is getting a $240,000 report in return for a $50,000 payment to Kujavsky is a pretty good ROI. And, hopefully, the private sector's involvement sets the stage for the day when options become actions.
     
     
  #5530  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 3:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
Run down? The exterior looks great. New windows too.

More towers and shopping centres? Isn't there enough within the Ice district?
I love it. Regina's warehouse district has had/is having a few of their old warehouses turned into condos and retail too. It's amazing what new windows can do for great brick structures like these! I want them all saved!
     
     
  #5531  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
One of the media articles about the preseason series in Montreal mused about that city getting a AAA team... given the apparent appetite for baseball in that city, you'd think someone would plunk a IL team into the Big O. Make a few bucks and assuming that fans show up in respectable numbers, you build the case for a MLB team.
The Big O is WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY too big for AAA ball. A AAA team would require a new, suitably sized stadium. I'm not sure some prospective owner or MLB team would be willing to make that gamble.
     
     
  #5532  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 8:14 PM
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If fans didn't go to the Big O for the expos, they won't go for triple A ball.
     
     
  #5533  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Horus View Post
The Big O is WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY too big for AAA ball. A AAA team would require a new, suitably sized stadium.
Which is something that was just completed in Charlotte, putting them out of the race for an MLB team.

     
     
  #5534  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 8:55 PM
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^ Gorgeous view from that park.

You guys don't think that a AAA team could attract 7 or 8 thousand fans a night to the Big O? That would probably be enough to make some money, remind the baseball world of Montreal's existence, and have at least enough fans to generate some passable kind of atmosphere.

Surely AAA baseball would be better than no baseball at all?!
     
     
  #5535  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 9:02 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ Gorgeous view from that park.

You guys don't think that a AAA team could attract 7 or 8 thousand fans a night to the Big O? That would probably be enough to make some money, remind the baseball world of Montreal's existence, and have at least enough fans to generate some passable kind of atmosphere.

Surely AAA baseball would be better than no baseball at all?!
Seems unlikely in my view. (Not the attract 7k-8k part, but the passable atmosphere part)

If the Big O was untenable for the Als with 10-12 thousand in attendance, I can't possibly imagine the atmosphere for baseball would be better 2/3 of that attendance.


As for the reference to the Charlotte stadium, if a Montreal AAA group was ambitious enough, they could do what Buffalo did: Build an AAA-sized ballpark that is designed to be expanded to MLB size if required. The park in Buffalo was designed such that an upper deck could be added to bump capacity from nearly 20k to 40k

     
     
  #5536  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 9:16 PM
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^ By the same token, the Expos' average attendance in Montreal was under 12,000 for their last seven seasons, and most of that time it was in the four digits. If people spent years watching the Expos with 6,000 fans in the stands, you'd think it could work for AAA ball if the thirst for baseball is really that strong.
     
     
  #5537  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 9:33 PM
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I think people are forgetting what a cavern Olympic is when there's only a couple thousand in the stands. It could work for a AAA team in theory, sure, but the fan experience would be awful. There's no way people would continue to pay to watch a game there, even if they knew it might help the city regain the Expos.
     
     
  #5538  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Chorduroy View Post
I love it. Regina's warehouse district has had/is having a few of their old warehouses turned into condos and retail too. It's amazing what new windows can do for great brick structures like these! I want them all saved!
The renovation and re-purposing of old industrial and other buildings, mostly for space for the high tech sector, is transforming Downtown Kitchener. There are several good projects underway at the moment.
     
     
  #5539  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 11:10 PM
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Which is something that was just completed in Charlotte, putting them out of the race for an MLB team.

Love that backdrop.
     
     
  #5540  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2016, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ciudad_del_norte View Post
Do you really understand the use of the building now? I feel like it is actually an example of why older buildings are so valuable, they provide types of spaces that don't exist in newer builds that foster activities and business that are unlikely to exist in a new tower/shopping centre. I know we're probably not going to agree on this, but even if you don't like a 100 year old warehouse with ghost signage (which I happen to love)... I think you vastly underestimate how much this sort of building does for downtown and overestimate the value of shiny new towers. The only thing a new tower would do better, IMO, is possibly add interest to the skyline. By any other measure I can think of, the building is better as-is.
Okay from that point of veiw yes. I see what that buildings purpose does for Edmonton And guys, don't get me wrong i do appreciate these older buildings myself I actually praise true north for saving the old burton Cummings theatre. But trust me Edmonton has no shortage of these warehouses they are everywhere. And this building in particular is what bugs me because Edmonton is full of old brick buildings and finally downtown gets a shot at a whole new section of flash and wow that has never existed and i feel like that building sort of takes away from it. Now yes youre right this place will be hopping on game days and will serve the downtown great for that reason.

I appoligize for not sharing in your veiw. I don't enjoy the ghost signage at all it reminds me of china town. Maybe its because I'm a little younger? I don't know but i do love old buildings...just not the location of this one
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