O-Train Line 1/3 [ Stage 2 | East Extension | Blair to Trim] | U/C

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

Looks like the city is listening.

It's spelled "lip service".

LRT is for the outer suburbs. There is no appetite at city hall to increase access to true mass transit inside the greenbelt, except insofar as it is incidental to the goal of making suburbanites happy.

Jasmine doesn't meet that criterion, and is therefore expendable.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The proposed BRT alignment is pretty well useless for residents of Blackburn Hamlet compared to the present 94 bus. It is perfect example of running service 'away' from where people live.

And par for the course for Ottawa's transit planning, which is done by people who obviously never see the inside of an operating transit vehicle.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

...
I am not saying that a MUP would be a bad thing, but the cost would be significant and would actually increase the cost of building a station at Jasmine Crescent. I certainly don't want a MUP plan to Blackburn to be a further excuse to delay a station construction.

Exactly. That is why I would like the two things decoupled. Design and build the MUP now. The more pedestrian/cyclist connections between neighbourhoods the better.

However, the overpass of the OR174 must be designed and built to also become the access to the future Jasmine Station. The rebuild OR174 lanes need to be spaced far enough apart (when the LRT track is initially laid) to easily allow the addition of the Jasmine Station without further re-alignment. This consideration needs to be taken into account when the pedestrian/cyclist overpass is designed.

At just over a kilometre between the edge of Blackburn Hamlet and a future Jasmine Station, a winter maintained pathway could provide additional ridership at that station.

And, no, train trestles do not equate to MUP bridges which do not need to maintain a specific elevation or provide the same strength.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

There will need to a substantial change in bus routes to make this a significant transfer point. At the moment, crossing bus routes amount to a couple of peak hour routes and Route 128. I believe that Route 128 already has low ridership and terminating it at this location instead of at Blair would further decimate ridership, that has been mostly absorbed by Route 94 in recent years.

Absolutely. I expect substantial changes in bus routing across the entire city when the LRT is up and running.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

How many people live at Jasmine Crescent? I'm assuming the population density is several times less than Richmond Road?

In the three census dissemination areas closest (on foot) to a putative Jasmine station, there are (2011) nearly 2200 residents:


D.A., pop.

061336 653
061337 977
061338 551

Total: 2181

This is comparable to the population around the relocated station at the Unitarian complex:

061188 540
061184 508
061185 547
061186 486

(plus part of 061257, pop. 1121, but at least part of the populated portion of that DA is closer to the cachement area of a Dominion-area station than to Cleary.)

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Absolutely. I expect substantial changes in bus routing across the entire city when the LRT is up and running.

Me too. Several of those changes may even be positive ones.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Exactly. That is why I would like the two things decoupled. Design and build the MUP now. The more pedestrian/cyclist connections between neighbourhoods the better.

However, the overpass of the OR174 must be designed and built to also become the access to the future Jasmine Station. The rebuild OR174 lanes need to be spaced far enough apart (when the LRT track is initially laid) to easily allow the addition of the Jasmine Station without further re-alignment. This consideration needs to be taken into account when the pedestrian/cyclist overpass is designed.

At just over a kilometre between the edge of Blackburn Hamlet and a future Jasmine Station, a winter maintained pathway could provide additional ridership at that station.

And, no, train trestles do not equate to MUP bridges which do not need to maintain a specific elevation or provide the same strength.

Are you suggesting the people would have to walk down into the gully and back up again?

Wouldn't a pathway that crosses the Greenbelt to a very low density residential area be mostly recreational? Surely, there must be higher priorities for a 'winter maintained' pathway. After all, few pathways of this nature are maintained over winter. I just don't see the traffic being very high in winter.

We seem unable to keep regular sidewalks in decent shape in bad weather. For example, following the last storm, the sidewalk on the railway overpass next to Greenboro station was in such poor shape that people were forced to walk right on Bank Street. And I am talking about a day or two after the storm was over. It was rather shocking how a section of sidewalk that is regularly used was impassible.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We seem unable to keep regular sidewalks in decent shape in bad weather. For example, following the last storm, the sidewalk on the railway overpass next to Greenboro station was in such poor shape that people were forced to walk right on Bank Street. And I am talking about a day or two after the storm was over. It was rather shocking how a section of sidewalk that is regularly used was impassible.

There were bus stops blocked by mounds of snow and ice, on major downtown streets like Bank and Rideau, up to a week after the big storm this winter.

But go ahead, city of Ottawa, tell us again how pedestrians and transit are at the top of the transportation pyramid...

[Dundas]

Thanks for your taxes buddy
Its about time Orleans gets it's share.

[eltodesukane]

better stations location:

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Are you suggesting the people would have to walk down into the gully and back up again?

By my reckoning, that's about a 30m vertical difference from the Hamlet down to the creek, then back up again, over a horizontal distance of about 700m.

That's an average slope of about 4-5%... what's the maximum that an accessible MUP would allow, I wonder?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Dundas

Thanks for your taxes buddy
Its about time Orleans gets it's share.

When can us inner city types, who don't, and will not, live within kms of an LRT station, get ours?

[rocketphish]

Kanata LRT should happen before extending rail farther east: Coun. Hubley

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: March 30, 2016 | Last Updated: March 30, 2016 4:11 PM EDT

The city should start laying LRT tracks towards Kanata before extending rail past Place d’Orléans, according to a councillor who represents part of the western suburb.

“I’m going to have a problem going to Trim Road before going to Kanata,” Kanata South Coun. Allan Hubley said in an interview.

Hubley dismissed the idea of extending the LRT to Trim Road as simply a plan to help residents in the neighbouring municipality get into the city.

“Why wouldn’t we want to serve the taxpayers of Ottawa rather than the taxpayers of Rockland?” he said.

Hubley said Kanata is seeing a resurgence of companies, providing one reason the city should consider bringing trains west before pushing the LRT deeper into Orléans.

Cumberland Coun. Stephen Blais scoffed at Hubley’s assessment of the city’s $160-million goal to extend tracks past Place d’Orléans.

“That comment shows a naivety of the east end,” Blais said, pointing out east Ottawa has the highest transit ridership in the city.

Blais said Hubley shouldn’t forget that Ottawa taxpayers in the easternmost communities, such as Cumberland and Sarsfield, would also benefit from LRT.

The LRT extension from the mall to Trim Road isn’t in the $3-billion Stage 2 blueprint, but the city has hoped to find a way to include the project in the 2018 to 2023 construction period.

The city might have a chance at adding to the Stage 2 plan if the upper-tier governments are willing to pay more than $2 billion for the work. The recent federal budget, which offers to pay up to 50 per cent of transit projects in the short term, is a glimmer of hope for the City of Ottawa, which will try to convince the feds to continue the cost-sharing scheme for a longer period.

The city doesn’t plan to build the LRT to Kanata until sometime after 2031. It’s currently extending the bus Transitway from Bayshore Shopping Centre to Moodie Drive.

The potential for the feds covering 50 per cent of future LRT costs is a “game-changer” for the city, so it’s time to take a hard look at which communities need a better rapid transit connection, Hubley said.

On the other hand, Blais said the city has already done plenty of work on studies for the east-end extension and it’s too late to change focus. Blais said the LRT should one day go to Kanata, but not at the sacrifice of the current plans.

“Nobody was talking about extending LRT out to Kanata until we were extending it to Orléans,” Blais said.

Last year, Hubley convinced council to ask staff for an analysis on getting LRT to Kanata at the earliest opportunity. He’s expecting a report soon.

While Hubley credited Blais for getting an Orléans LRT extension in the plans, the Kanata councillor wants to balance the city’s rail service in the west. The ideal situation would be getting LRT to Terry Fox Drive, Hubley said. Under the Stage 2 plan, the farthest west LRT would go is to Bayshore Shopping Centre.

Blais pointed out the west has received more money for road projects, where the east has focused on transit.

The city needs to find a way to complete the Trim Road LRT extension during the Stage 2 work or it might never happen, Blais said.

That, Blais said, would “condemn Orléans to another generation of poor planning.”

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...rail-farther-east-coun-allan-hubley-says

[Uhuniau]

Enjoy my taxes Kanata?

[MoreTrains]

Where are the Barrhaven councillors complaining? Dammit! Where is the complaints coming from Winchester! This is an outrage!

But in all seriousness, extending the LRT to Trim before going to Kanata is silly. But not as silly as not fixing trainsit in the inner-city to make sure all those coming from Orleans and Kanata can get to where the need to go.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

But in all seriousness, extending the LRT to Trim before going to Kanata is silly. But not as silly as not fixing trainsit in the inner-city to make sure all those coming from Orleans and Kanata can get to where the need to go.

I've said it before, but extending anywhere beyond the green belt is silly (in the short term at least). Buses in bus lanes will get through the green belt just as well as the LRT and people outside of the greenbelt will likely have to transfer anyway, so have them do that transfer inside the greenbelt.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I've said it before, but extending anywhere beyond the green belt is silly (in the short term at least). Buses in bus lanes will get through the green belt just as well as the LRT and people outside of the greenbelt will likely have to transfer anyway, so have them do that transfer inside the greenbelt.

Local bus->BRT->LRT
instead of
Local bus->LRT
or how it works today
Local bus->BRT

I don't think that's how you increase ridership

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Kanata LRT should happen before extending rail farther east: Coun. Hubley

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: March 30, 2016 | Last Updated: March 30, 2016 4:11 PM EDT


[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...rail-farther-east-coun-allan-hubley-says

Trim vs. Kanata, I vote Trim. With La Cité's trades college, Brigil's residential and office development and massive park and rides that could be developed (with new park and ride garages), it has the best TOD potential in the suburbs.

Kanata is easily accessed by car with its 10 lane highway and major 4-6 lane thoroughfares all over the place. It is also the most self sustaining suburb with its high employment areas (that would mostly not served by rail anyway). And if the Sens are moving Downtown, well... Maybe once we see Melnyk's plans for the Corel Centre, opinions will change.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Trim vs. Kanata, I vote Trim. With La Cité's trades college, Brigil's residential and office development and massive park and rides that could be developed (with new park and ride garages), it has the best TOD potential in the suburbs.

Kanata is easily accessed by car with its 10 lane highway and major 4-6 lane thoroughfares all over the place. It is also the most self sustaining suburb with its high employment areas (that would mostly not served by rail anyway). And if the Sens are moving Downtown, well... Maybe once we see Melnyk's plans for the Corel Centre, opinions will change.

If you are live in the east half of the city, Kanata is far from easily accessible. I know somebody in my neighbourhood who works their and it is a horrible commute. Forget about transit too. Way too inconvenient. And moving is out of the question since her husband works in the east end of the city.

It seems to me that you are writing off the second biggest concentration of jobs in the city.

On the other hand, a Trim extension does not compare to the cost of a Kanata extension and our plans don't take LRT to the employment area anyways.

When I last looked at the Trim station plans, I found it odd that the station was not being placed adjacent to the Park n Ride lot.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Local bus->BRT->LRT
instead of
Local bus->LRT
or how it works today
Local bus->BRT

I don't think that's how you increase ridership

Or for many Local bus direct to downtown.

I have made an observation of the impact of terminating Route 41 at Hurdman last December. From what I have seen, ridership has fallen dramatically on that route. This is what will be experienced as we add transfers but maintain lousy frequency.

I used it once and it was a super fast way to get to Heron Gate. But, if I have to transfer and potentially wait 30 minutes, forget it. I will use the slow route instead.