O-Train Line 1/3 [ Stage 2 | East Extension | Blair to Trim] | U/C

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by JM1

Why should taxpayers care about reducing costs? Wasn't this a fixed price contract. Do we get the savings or do they accrue to the RTG consortium?

Because this news article is about Stage 2, whose contract is not signed yet.

[rocketphish]

Posting in appropriate thread...

Originally Posted by Mr.Flintstone

here you go!

[Dundas]

Confederation Line East is one of the three major extensions to Ottawa’s rail transit system planned between 2018 and 2023.

From the stage2 website.

Do you think the city will extend the otrain east station by station once they are ready for service or will they wait until it reaches Place Orleans? Next question I'm wondering about is if the east end part will be ready before 2023 since it seems like the easier extension of the stage2. The website says between 2018 and 2023.

[eltodesukane]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

Not liking the changes in the east end. How does a future station near Jasmine Cr work if the LRT is already in the median by that point?

Saving money by keeping the LRT in the median, as far away as possible from the potential users.
Same thing with the west LRT, following the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway instead of Wellington/Richmond or Carling or Baseline.

[hwy418]

The changes at the east end are completely necessary in order to stage the work at Montreal Road. New bridges need to be constructed on the outside, then traffic can be shifted there to facilitate the construction in the median.

The old plan would not work due to the grade differences at the Montreal Road interchange. An old colleague and I pointed this out to the City about a year ago... I guess they finally saw the light.

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

Saving money by keeping the LRT in the median, as far away as possible from the potential users.
Same thing with the west LRT, following the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway instead of Wellington/Richmond or Carling or Baseline.

How many people live at Jasmine Crescent? I'm assuming the population density is several times less than Richmond Road? Maybe if the population density/projected users went up in 50 years from now, there could be a median platform/station, its not that difficult to drop in a new pedestrian bridge to the highway median, everything around there is on-grade anyways. The sad reality is, adding 3 minutes per trip for all the other users is probably the deciding factor here.

And also, doesn't the alignment follow Richmond Road from Cleary Station to Bayshore?

EDIT: Now I see that it follows Richmond from Cleary until it hits the parkway alignment, with a new stop at 'new orchard' Seems legit.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

How many people live at Jasmine Crescent? I'm assuming the population density is several times less than Richmond Road? Maybe if the population density/projected users went up in 50 years from now, there could be a median platform/station, its not that difficult to drop in a new pedestrian bridge to the highway median, everything around there is on-grade anyways. The sad reality is, adding 3 minutes per trip for all the other users is probably the deciding factor here.

And also, doesn't the alignment follow Richmond Road from Cleary Station to Bayshore?

EDIT: Now I see that it follows Richmond from Cleary until it hits the parkway alignment, with a new stop at 'new orchard' Seems legit.

Jasmine is all apartment blocks and row houses. There's already high transit usage there. It's one of the reasons why the 12 still diverts on that street even after the city attempted to replace it with the 124 a few years ago. Guaranteed there's more people living there than say around Cyrville or Tremblay.

[kevinbottawa]

Looks like the city is listening.

Extra station possible under realigned eastern LRT route

Jon Willing
More from Jon Willing
Published on: March 28, 2016 | Last Updated: March 28, 2016 3:33 PM EDT

The city says an additional east-end LRT station is still possible under a realigned second phase of the transit project, but accessing the train stop would present a new challenge.

Plugging a station near Gloucester High School into the Stage 2 LRT blueprint is only conceptual, since no money has been earmarked for the extra stop east of Blair station.

The city has been lightly penciling the extra station into the plan because people have been calling for another stop in the area. A fifth station in the LRT east extension to Place d’Orléans hasn’t received much attention since the focus has been on the “affordable” plan with stations at Montreal Road, Jeanne D’Arc Boulevard, Orléans Boulevard and Place d’Orléans.

After residents pointed out the long stretch between Blair and Montreal stations without a stop, the city agreed to protect a part of the line to one day build a station just under one kilometre away from Blair station. Construction has been contingent on acquiring land for station access and the future transit-orientated development potential for the area.

The city says it can still build an LRT station to serve Gloucester High School, recreational amenities and the surrounding community under the new plan, which changes where the train tracks would be installed along Highway 174.

In the stretch east of Blair station, the city previously wanted to run the train tracks along the north side of the highway until east of Montreal Road, where the rail line would cross into the highway median. The new plan will bring the rail line into the highway median shortly after eastbound trains leave Blair station.

The cost-cutting design changes announced last week mean a station near Gloucester High School would be shifted south into the median of Highway 174.

“A future station east of Gloucester High School can be protected, although the median location will be more challenging to access,” according to an environmental project report published by the city just before Easter weekend.

In other words, if the city wants to build a station in the median at that location, it would need to build a link over or under the westbound highway lanes.

The other stations embedded in the highway median of the eastern LRT stretch will have road accesses.

For now, the city has no intention of building a station near Gloucester High School before 2031.

The city announced three changes to the Stage 2 LRT alignment last week. Along with the rail line entering the median closer to Blair station, the city wants to shift the station at Montreal Road into the highway median above Montreal Road. In the western LRT section, the city wants to build Cleary station along Richmond Road and avoid tunnelling through a property owned by the First Unitarian Congregation.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/extra-station-possible-under-realigned-eastern-lrt-route

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

Looks like the city is listening.

Not my first choice of location but better than nothing.

But not before 2031...

[Kitchissippi]

If they ever put a station there, they should build a new MUP across Green's Creek into Blackburn Hamlet. It's only about a kilometre diagonally through the Greenbelt to link to the pathway network that weaves through that community. I lived there a long time ago, and I could see a lot of Hamleters (Hamsters? ) opting to bike or walk to the LRT instead of waiting for a circuitous bus route to take them there.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

Not my first choice of location but better than nothing.

But not before 2031...

Why would you want a station where people live and there are other community amenities within walking distance.

The key is that it is too expensive with no existing road access. While a station at Montreal Road will be cheap but serve almost nobody.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

If they ever put a station there, they should build a new MUP across Green's Creek into Blackburn Hamlet. It's only about a kilometre diagonally through the Greenbelt to link to the pathway network that weaves through that community. I lived there a long time ago, and I could see a lot of Hamleters (Hamsters? ) opting to bike or walk to the LRT instead of waiting for a circuitous bus route to take them there.

I cannot see this being a priority given the distance to Blackburn Hamlet and the cost of trying to cross Green's Creek, which is in a deep and wide gully throughout this area.

[waterloowarrior]

Blackburn Hamlet will have a BRT connection to Blair (you can see the outline in the revised station drawings above too)

http://ottawa.ca/en/major-projects/const...tice-completion-and-30-day-public-review

[lrt's friend]

The proposed BRT alignment is pretty well useless for residents of Blackburn Hamlet compared to the present 94 bus. It is perfect example of running service 'away' from where people live.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I cannot see this being a priority given the distance to Blackburn Hamlet and the cost of trying to cross Green's Creek, which is in a deep and wide gully throughout this area.

MUPs are the cheapest things to build, and pedestrian bridges if they do not go over roadways or significant waterways come practically in standard pre-fab sections — they use them in Gatineau Park and many of the ravines in town. I've skied in that area and the gully becomes narrower the farther south you go. A 1 km walk takes 15 minutes, you can spend more time waiting for a bus. If you lived in the northern section of Blackburn Hamlet, it would be closer to walk to a station at Jasmine than a BRT station on the BH Bypass.



The MUP would be worth it just for the improved access to the schools and sports/recreational facilities on either side of the divide.

[Richard Eade]

I agree. For just over a kilometre of MUP, there can be a good pedestrian/cycling connection between these neighbourhoods. As Martha Stewart might say: “And that’s a good thing.”

I hope that the City is being truthful about protecting for a future station (better sooner than later, too!) at Jasmine. That means separating the rebuilt OR174 by a sufficient amount in that area for the future station. It costs very little extra to spread the roads when the roadways are being rebuilt anyway, but it adds a lot to the cost of a future station if the roads have to be moved to make way for it later.

An overpass of the highway would serve the MUP first, and the station in the (hopefully near!) future. The overpass should be built when the roadways are rebuilt and repositioned for the future station, but not have to wait for the future station to be built.

[TransitZilla]

Honest question: why is the city bothering with the Montreal Road station? There's nothing around there. It will only be useful as a bus transfer point, but bus service to the Canotek business park could just as easily be provided from Blair.

I think the Jasmine station would make far more sense as part of Phase 1 than Montreal Rd. And I think the MUP connection to Blackburn Hamlet is a great idea.

[Richard Eade]

Although there is some transit demand local to Montreal Road at OR174, I think that you are right that it will also be useful as a transfer point between the train and buses. It is the last major cross-road before the Greenbelt. In that vein, I would hope that the City lengthens the future OR174 structures over Montreal Road so that bus bays can be added, with wider sidewalk/platform areas. There should also be formalized pathways to the main destinations. For example, a winter maintained path from Montreal Road to Rainbow Street.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I agree. For just over a kilometre of MUP, there can be a good pedestrian/cycling connection between these neighbourhoods. As Martha Stewart might say: “And that’s a good thing.”

I hope that the City is being truthful about protecting for a future station (better sooner than later, too!) at Jasmine. That means separating the rebuilt OR174 by a sufficient amount in that area for the future station. It costs very little extra to spread the roads when the roadways are being rebuilt anyway, but it adds a lot to the cost of a future station if the roads have to be moved to make way for it later.

An overpass of the highway would serve the MUP first, and the station in the (hopefully near!) future. The overpass should be built when the roadways are rebuilt and repositioned for the future station, but not have to wait for the future station to be built.

Why? It seems to me that the station itself would be of greater importance to more people and isn't the overpass itself the greatest expense in adding a station at that location? And without a MUP, you only need the overpass to go to the centre median.

I walked to the ruins of the old Canadian Northern trestle last summer, which had crossed Green's Creek between Montreal Road and Innes Road, and that structure would have been substantial.

I am not saying that a MUP would be a bad thing, but the cost would be significant and would actually increase the cost of building a station at Jasmine Crescent. I certainly don't want a MUP plan to Blackburn to be a further excuse to delay a station construction.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Although there is some transit demand local to Montreal Road at OR174, I think that you are right that it will also be useful as a transfer point between the train and buses. It is the last major cross-road before the Greenbelt. In that vein, I would hope that the City lengthens the future OR174 structures over Montreal Road so that bus bays can be added, with wider sidewalk/platform areas. There should also be formalized pathways to the main destinations. For example, a winter maintained path from Montreal Road to Rainbow Street.

There will need to a substantial change in bus routes to make this a significant transfer point. At the moment, crossing bus routes amount to a couple of peak hour routes and Route 128. I believe that Route 128 already has low ridership and terminating it at this location instead of at Blair would further decimate ridership, that has been mostly absorbed by Route 94 in recent years.