Winnipeg | Exchange District | Developments & Discussions

[Urban recluse]

I concur about the north/east side/curve of Main. Starting at the Confederation building, it is dismal. Again and again, it all comes down to residential. Stores would open around here if hundreds of new residents were brought in. I wish the Manitoba museum expansion into the north lot would happen sooner than later, the McLaren redeveloped, 10 stories of residential added to the building north of it...for starters.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by BigG

IMO, all civic departments not operating out of city hall should move to the offices on Graham. I think it only makes sense. They have it - may as well use it.

I agree with one addition, instead of limiting to civic departments at city hall the focus should be more on ownership of the property so departments that are not in city owned properties should move when their lease can be exited with minimal cost, usually at renewal. There would also need to be an exception where services are located in the community near citizens such as libraries in leased locations, this could be handled by having property and development review any lease that is not moving to publically explain why it isn't moving to a city owned property downtown.

Originally Posted by esquire

We don't have a REAL market where fresh food is the focus. Building another Forks Market where it's mainly about fast food and cheap tchotchkes is pointless, either this thing would be for food producers or don't even bother.

Although frankly, I'm not sure how well a big market on the old market site would be supported these days... I doubt it would draw anything approaching St. Norbert Market-like numbers.

1. The Forks used to have fresh food vendors. Before building a replica of what The Forks was and moved away from someone really needs answers of why that model didn't work in the past and how things will be different this time.

2. Anyone thinking you are going to have local fresh foods in the winter is heavily ignoring the realities of living in Manitoba.

3. Anyone thinking this is going to be in operation on a daily basis is also ignoring the realities of a farmer's market setup. Those people need time away from the market to make the products they are selling.

4. Winnipeg is long over due for a second market to set up and contend with St Norbert on both size and variety. There are vendors and customers out there it is just a matter of someone with the vision putting it all together. I am looking at you Red River Ex and your agricultural mandate.

[esquire]

^ For what it's worth, "fresh foods" doesn't only mean market gardeners. It could include cheese/dairy products, meat, imported fruit and produce, bread items, etc. It can be quite expansive.

[drew]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Isn't most (if not all) the argument for keeping it because of the "historic" facade? What's the point of removing it and keeping the main building if it's already not an ideal use of space. You couldn't even convert the King and William sides to CRUs because the floor is 5 feet off the ground.

I am just looking at this in terms of whether or not a serviceable building exists under all that tyndall.

To me, it seems like there should be a evaluation against the cost of basic rehabs to bring it into modern use versus building a similar size of building from new.

It seems to me like there could be a relatively simple way to convert that building into decent office space - providing of course that the exterior finish can be removed and replaced.

Or hey, convert it into apartments.

[Urban recluse]

Having recently watched "Burlesque", air rights became an issue; what about pertaining to the PSB?

[biguc]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

The difficulty is that we already have a public market downtown that loses money every year. Should we be building another market that would essentially compete with the one that we already have? How can we ensure that this new public market doesn't also lose money, thus becoming a yearly drain?

I should say that if they do rebuild to old market, there's no reason they'd have to actually use it as a market. The old market building was basically just a barn, and if we rebuilt it, it would make a fine multi-use community building.

That said, it could easily host a part-time farmer's market like OMS currently does.

Also, as downtown's population grows--and it needs to continue to grow by thousands of people--we'll have to start looking past downtown as one area and look to what works for each of the distinct neighborhoods that makes up the greater downtown area. Something that doesn't work at the Forks very well might in the west Exchange.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by CoryB

2. Anyone thinking you are going to have local fresh foods in the winter is heavily ignoring the realities of living in Manitoba.

Well berry farmers could always repurpose their produce as jams or spreads....

There are other ways to use farmed products in the winter. If they could do it in the pioneering days then we can certainly do it now. Or have the space re-purposed for something else during winter. It's a good idea to have a real marketplace. But it also does have to serve some purpose all 12 months of the year like you said.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by drew

I am just looking at this in terms of whether or not a serviceable building exists under all that tyndall.

To me, it seems like there should be a evaluation against the cost of basic rehabs to bring it into modern use versus building a similar size of building from new.

It seems to me like there could be a relatively simple way to convert that building into decent office space - providing of course that the exterior finish can be removed and replaced.

Or hey, convert it into apartments.

I think the big issue is office space is definitely the best use of that space, even if you take out the fact there's already a lot of empty office space in the city (including in the City's Graham tower). And that would do nothing for improving William/King. You can't turn it into CRUs because it's too high off the ground, so you would have to have back entrances inside if stores would go in. Don't think we need an indoor mall in the Exchange.

Originally Posted by CoryB

1. The Forks used to have fresh food vendors. Before building a replica of what The Forks was and moved away from someone really needs answers of why that model didn't work in the past and how things will be different this time.

I think the issue is pretty obvious. No one lives at The Forks (yet), why would anyone be doing grocery shopping at a tourist destination it makes no sense. That's why the specialty food stores are still ok. Take your kids and buy some cookies or fudge makes sense.

And to be honest, I'm not sure The Forks Market even makes sense as a good place for a market/grocery store when there eventually is residential. I wouldn't want to have to shuffle through hoards of tourists and kids to do my grocery shopping. Open a place in one of the new buildings, closer to the residential part. Put an outdoor market in the summer in the plaza on Parcel 4.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by buzzg

I think the issue is pretty obvious. No one lives at The Forks (yet), why would anyone be doing grocery shopping at a tourist destination it makes no sense. That's why the specialty food stores are still ok. Take your kids and buy some cookies or fudge makes sense.

There is so much more available at ordinary grocery stores these days, as opposed to when the Forks was being conceived 30 years ago. You don't really need to head to a special destination to buy nice cheese anymore.

[Urban recluse]

Project in downtown Des Moines: 35,000 sq ft, 24-HR grocery store being built with 80+ apartments above, and a 210 car parking garage. I think the PSB site would be great for a grocery store. It will be far enough from SkyCity.


https://localtvwhotv.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/hyvee21.jpg?w=680

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ For what it's worth, "fresh foods" doesn't only mean market gardeners. It could include cheese/dairy products, meat, imported fruit and produce, bread items, etc. It can be quite expansive.

Farmers Market means no on anything imported and St Norberts can be bad for that with some vendors. There are also a number of restrictions on what can be sold at farmer's markets in MB. For example there was a major issue with a local, award winning, producer of curried meats following best practices of their industry but still running into issues with the local laws. It is also nearly impossible to sell anything diary from farm to table to MB due to the whole dairy quota and safety systems. Any prepared food items such as breads, jams, pergories, etc again fall under some heavy rules. In terms of meats, well doing fresh meats out of a temporary stall typically seen in a farmers market I think is allowed but is impractical. That is why most of the farmers markets locally ultimately boil down to people selling locally grown veggies, some limited fruits, eggs and frozen meats.

If we want to see a true market with an expanded range of offerings we really need to have some of the food laws in MB updated.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Farmers Market means no on anything imported and St Norberts can be bad for that with some vendors. There are also a number of restrictions on what can be sold at farmer's markets in MB. For example there was a major issue with a local, award winning, producer of curried meats following best practices of their industry but still running into issues with the local laws. It is also nearly impossible to sell anything diary from farm to table to MB due to the whole dairy quota and safety systems. Any prepared food items such as breads, jams, pergories, etc again fall under some heavy rules. In terms of meats, well doing fresh meats out of a temporary stall typically seen in a farmers market I think is allowed but is impractical. That is why most of the farmers markets locally ultimately boil down to people selling locally grown veggies, some limited fruits, eggs and frozen meats.

If we want to see a true market with an expanded range of offerings we really need to have some of the food laws in MB updated.

Ok then don't call it a Farmers Market. Call it Food Market or Vendor Collection at Exchanges. Solved.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Ok then don't call it a Farmers Market. Call it Food Market or Vendor Collection at Exchanges. Solved.

And in doing that you have replicated The Forks Market. Is that the desired end goal?

[Urban recluse]

A — grocery store then.

[Ando]

Really entertaining debate about an absolutely imaginary project.

[esquire]

^ In fairness, something's going to happen with the PSB.

[CoryB]

^^ I would guess that an RRC expansion makes far more sense than a clone of The Forks Market. There is only so much expansion to do at the Notre Dame campus and they have been working to shift most of their non-trades programming to the Exchange campus.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Project in downtown Des Moines: 35,000 sq ft, 24-HR grocery store being built with 80+ apartments above, and a 210 car parking garage. I think the PSB site would be great for a grocery store. It will be far enough from SkyCity.


https://localtvwhotv.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/hyvee21.jpg?w=680

This would be fantastic, but I highly doubt it meets the requirement of 'public' use under the caveat for the southern 3rd of the site. And really, that's the part that people are struggling with.

The northern 2/3rds can be sold off for a project like you have identified under the RFP model (similar to how the Mere Hotel came about). The question still remains: what goes on the southern portion that would satisfy the 'public' use caveat and good urbanist principles?

[Urban recluse]

I wonder if any legal loopholes exist? In terms of public use, I suspect we will see city of Winnipeg offices occupy that portion. Can the city sell that land and in return lease space, thus satisfying the caveat? I do not know if it firmly states that the city must own it.

[Urban recluse]

Qualico training centre update.


http://www.sportmanitoba.ca/sites/default/files/galleries/IMG_20151211_094107.jpg

Now only if the science centre planned for the adjacent lot was being built sooner than later...