Winnipeg | Exchange District | Developments & Discussions

[BigG]

+ 2 for me for the Old Market idea. I suppose +3 if I get Urban as a yea.

[CoryB]

Re costs of renos to PSB, if I recall correctly the WPS needs bomb proofing on their buildings which added a significant extra expense over fixing the crumbling exterior of the PSB. That would mean say moving the Planning department into the PSB would cost less than repairing it for WPS.

That said, if it is demoed they can slap some grass on the vacant lot, call in a dog park, and cross off another of Bowman's campaign promises.

[drew]

I can't see how it would be that astronomical of a cost to remove the exterior finish, put up something new, and rehab the main floor for barrier free access. Even if we are adding new mechanical systems, this cannot be an $80 million price tag.

Another plus is that as an existing building, it gets grandfathered past the new energy code.

Ceiling to floor glass for everyone!!

[esquire]

^ I may be misremembering, but wasn't it implied that the City would be moving PP&D from Fort Garry Place into the Graham office tower? I'm sure they would probably fill up at least 2, possibly even 3 floors. So that's a big chunk out of the civic accommodations budget right there.

[BigG]

IMO, all civic departments not operating out of city hall should move to the offices on Graham. I think it only makes sense. They have it - may as well use it.

[bomberjet]

^I can't see why the City wouldn't move their offices into the Graham Ave tower. They own a flipping 10 storey building, are renting space elsewhere, and can't figure out what to do.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by BigG

IMO, all civic departments not operating out of city hall should move to the offices on Graham. I think it only makes sense. They have it - may as well use it.

I agree in principle, although I believe they are locked into some long term leases in the Confederation and Bank of Hamilton Buildings, possibly others. That could be a tricky sublease, assuming they are even able to do so... weren't those basically sweetheart deals intended to save and rehabilitate those heritage office buildings?

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by biguc

Add me as a +1 on the old market idea. Perfectly takes care of the footprint that has to be public use, makes sense of the name "Old Market Square", and leaves the rest of the lot free for residential development. It was a pretty small, simple building too, so while it's not the cheapest option, I'm sure it wouldn't be too prohibitively expensive.

The difficulty is that we already have a public market downtown that loses money every year. Should we be building another market that would essentially compete with the one that we already have? How can we ensure that this new public market doesn't also lose money, thus becoming a yearly drain?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

The difficulty is that we already have a public market downtown that loses money every year. Should we be building another market that would essentially compete with the one that we already have? How can we ensure that this new public market doesn't also lose money, thus becoming a yearly drain?

We don't have a REAL market where fresh food is the focus. Building another Forks Market where it's mainly about fast food and cheap tchotchkes is pointless, either this thing would be for food producers or don't even bother.

Although frankly, I'm not sure how well a big market on the old market site would be supported these days... I doubt it would draw anything approaching St. Norbert Market-like numbers.

[Urban recluse]

Add 500+ residential units in the area, including a redevelopment of the McLaren, and a market would thrive. I could see many people who work within a few blocks grabbing items during the day and on their way home.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

We don't have a REAL market where fresh food is the focus. Building another Forks Market where it's mainly about fast food and cheap tchotchkes is pointless, either this thing would be for food producers or don't even bother.

Although frankly, I'm not sure how well a big market on the old market site would be supported these days... I doubt it would draw anything approaching St. Norbert Market-like numbers.

Maybe an antiques and crafts market, like we have at St. Lawrence Market in Toronto. It would be hard to convince food vendors or customers to switch from St. Norbert to a downtown location.

[bomberjet]

The Forks is pretty much a crafts market. Upstairs is full of people hocking their wares.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Maybe an antiques and crafts market, like we have at St. Lawrence Market in Toronto. It would be hard to convince food vendors or customers to switch from St. Norbert to a downtown location.

Agreed... these things tend to do well where there is a large local population nearby, and I just don't think that the handful of Exchange District condo owners, Chinatown apartment dwellers and Centennial area residents within walking distance would really be enough to keep a market afloat.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by drew

I can't see how it would be that astronomical of a cost to remove the exterior finish, put up something new, and rehab the main floor for barrier free access. Even if we are adding new mechanical systems, this cannot be an $80 million price tag.

Another plus is that as an existing building, it gets grandfathered past the new energy code.

Ceiling to floor glass for everyone!!

From a design perspective, building out the ground level towards Princess to offer storefront activity, replacing some of the facade with glass could look great. The tension created by such a design scheme would be dramatic.

http://blog.archpaper.com/2015/07/suffol...talist-city-hall-glass-veil/#more-106271

http://qe1pr67o4hj19lx494tvhiwf.wpengine...t/uploads/2015/08/uk-station-550x304.jpg

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/art-...or-national-arts-centre/article22020748/

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The Forks is pretty much a crafts market. Upstairs is full of people hocking their wares.

True, but where do people in Winnipeg go on weekends to see antique/junk dealers set up at tables selling jewelry, coins, old crockery, used books, used clothes, etc.? I'd go downtown for that -- the Exchange District makes a great backdrop for that kind of thing and would add to the atmosphere around it. Just as St. Norbert, being semi-rural, has kind of the right feel for buying food from farmers (not to mention accessibility for them).

I'd be the first to agree, however, that it's not really something that is likely to sustain an entire market.

[bomberjet]

There's flea markets setup around town. There are a number of antique stores in the west exchange. So could be a good synergy there. A farmers market wouldn't work. As there is no produce being generated right now, everything is covered in snow.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Add 500+ residential units in the area, including a redevelopment of the McLaren, and a market would thrive. I could see many people who work within a few blocks grabbing items during the day and on their way home.

Agreed. I also think the same thing about the Forks Market suffering... with all the planned residential there it will be just fine. I don't think there's that many people (if any) going there just to buy food now, mostly just Forks visitors. So I don't think it'd notice at all if another market opened tomorrow in the Exchange.

Originally Posted by drew

I can't see how it would be that astronomical of a cost to remove the exterior finish, put up something new, and rehab the main floor for barrier free access. Even if we are adding new mechanical systems, this cannot be an $80 million price tag.

Isn't most (if not all) the argument for keeping it because of the "historic" facade? What's the point of removing it and keeping the main building if it's already not an ideal use of space. You couldn't even convert the King and William sides to CRUs because the floor is 5 feet off the ground.

Originally Posted by esquire

I agree in principle, although I believe they are locked into some long term leases in the Confederation and Bank of Hamilton Buildings, possibly others. That could be a tricky sublease, assuming they are even able to do so... weren't those basically sweetheart deals intended to save and rehabilitate those heritage office buildings?

There's probably enough suburban offices that should be downtown to fill up that building without relocating ones that are already downtown. Like the Board of Adjustment on Pembina. That being said I'd be ok with freeing up that main floor of Confederation because it has a lot of potential for better commercial use. Hamilton building is pretty much destined for office anyway due to lack of windows.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by buzzg

There's probably enough suburban offices that should be downtown to fill up that building without relocating ones that are already downtown. Like the Board of Adjustment on Pembina. That being said I'd be ok with freeing up that main floor of Confederation because it has a lot of potential for better commercial use. Hamilton building is pretty much destined for office anyway due to lack of windows.

I couldn't agree more re: Confed. It bothers me that the classic old CRUs are squandered on civic office space, although I recognize that since the rest of the pedestrian streetscape around there has been decimated there probably isn't much demand for streetfront CRU space anyway... I wish they'd try, though.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by esquire

I couldn't agree more re: Confed. It bothers me that the classic old CRUs are squandered on civic office space, although I recognize that since the rest of the pedestrian streetscape around there has been decimated there probably isn't much demand for streetfront CRU space anyway... I wish they'd try, though.

I disagree about the streetscape around there though, that's the best two blocks of Main right now, although mostly all on the west side. But if they left, their cars wouldn't need to be parked in a surface lot on Main, and that lot could be redeveloped potentially.

[esquire]

^ One block varies wildly from the next... the block with Parlour Coffee is great, the one with Confed is terrible... I mean, bank-🞵🞵🞵-nightclub, vacant lot, office building with no main level interaction, courtyard that no one uses. It's awful.