ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Martinman

Wow! Another student tower?

I'm curious as to what the proposal looks like and am glad infill is stretching south towards North Ave, although I'm really hoping we're about to max out private student housing developments in Midtown. While I'm all for our local institutions manicured growth and I'm sure providing more infill gives the students greater sense of ownership of Midtown, which may improve graduating talent retention, I'd prefer to see residential developments where all citizens are capable of living at the development.

[BlueSangha]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

Funny you should say that with 1010 still being a hole in the ground! They must have run into some problems with the foundation or something. I think it's been under construction for nearly a year now, and they haven't finished pouring the first slab yet.

I peeked into that hole a few days ago, the site is busy with activity.

In better news, a fence is up at the Related tower on 14th, so that must be fully underway (not just clearing).

and you can watch through the Atlantic House webcam

[7even6ix2wo]

Where's old SnakeBit and BlindFatSnake? Haven't seen them...

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

-The boutique condo building 238 14th st. filed for its SPI permit
-Accent Morningside filed to consolidate lots (apartments replacing alfredo's on Cheshire Bridge)
-934 Brady Ave NW filed for consolidation of 3 industrial lots, across Brady Ave. from the Brady Apartments (likely to prepare for redevelopment)

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

I'm curious as to what the proposal looks like and am glad infill is stretching south towards North Ave, although I'm really hoping we're about to max out private student housing developments in Midtown. While I'm all for our local institutions manicured growth and I'm sure providing more infill gives the students greater sense of ownership of Midtown, which may improve graduating talent retention, I'd prefer to see residential developments where all citizens are capable of living at the development.

99% sure you don't have to be a student to live at these developments. They're just developed in such a way that make it not appealing to non-students. For example, it is filled with students and they cater to that market. If you're a professional, you're probably not wanting to live around a bunch of 18-21 year olds. They allow split leases and they skew heavily to 2 bedrooms +, even offering 4 bedrooms, which traditional complexes are heavily 1 bedrooms and rarely offer anything over 2 bedrooms.

Anyways, most developments are for all citizens (assuming you can afford it), but considering the location of these developments near GT, it makes sense they'd build student-targeted living. There's obviously a need seeing as how these developments leased up quickly.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

-934 Brady Ave NW filed for consolidation of 3 industrial lots, across Brady Ave. from the Brady Apartments (likely to prepare for redevelopment)

Any additional information on this development? Quite a bit of interesting industrial building at this location.

@ATL_J: True. Chances are I'm a bit envious of the amenities provided for them to live in a neighborhood many of us deem desirable. On-campus housing is a bit of a rip-off and by forcing 4 students to share an apartment, the companies can lower their prices while still making a nice profit. In general I enjoy the foot-traffic, I just want more options for when it comes to me being able to rent or buy in the area. I just don't want there to be more student housing high-rises than condos between North Ave and 10th Street. While it's only three developments so far, I only consider there to be 5 comparable condo buildings in the same area (Viewpoint, Spire, Metropolis, Aqua, and The Plaza). While there are many other types of condos, only a handful provide comparable amenities in modern high-rises. Midcity, Biltmore, Cornerstone, 905 Juniper, The Dakota, Tuscany, etc... I don't hold in the same limelight as the other high rises, although I do love a few of those! Especially 905 Juniper.

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Any additional information on this development? Quite a bit of interesting industrial building at this location.

@ATL_J: True. Chances are I'm a bit envious of the amenities provided for them to live in a neighborhood many of us deem desirable. On-campus housing is a bit of a rip-off and by forcing 4 students to share an apartment, the companies can lower their prices while still making a nice profit. In general I enjoy the foot-traffic, I just want more options for when it comes to me being able to rent or buy in the area. I just don't want there to be more student housing high-rises than condos between North Ave and 10th Street. While it's only three developments so far, I only consider there to be 5 comparable condo buildings in the same area (Viewpoint, Spire, Metropolis, Aqua, and The Plaza). While there are many other types of condos, only a handful provide comparable amenities in modern high-rises. Midcity, Biltmore, Cornerstone, 905 Juniper, The Dakota, Tuscany, etc... I don't hold in the same limelight as the other high rises, although I do love a few of those! Especially 905 Juniper.

Why are you trying to compare student housing projects to the condo projects when there is also a slew of rentals either under construction and/or about to break ground this year in the area as well?

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by arctk2014

Why are you trying to compare student housing projects to the condo projects when there is also a slew of rentals either under construction and/or about to break ground this year in the area as well?

Because rent prices are astronomical for the new developments and we should have a diverse supply (architecture, amenities, affordability) of units for home ownership in Atlanta's most urban neighborhood. Comparing to the student housing, I don't find 3:5 to be an appropriate ratio of available comparable modern high-rise complexes between North Ave. and 10th street. The rental developments and student housing are impacting the supply of potential modern, high-rise units to be owned in Midtown.

[AtlantaMustang]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Comparing to the student housing, I don't find 3:5 to be an appropriate ratio of available comparable modern high-rise complexes between North Ave. and 10th street.

But 3:5 is wrong to start with.... If we're counting the 2 student buildings that are already built, and one proposed, then we have to do the same for highrise condos/apartments. I don't know why we'd not include new apartments that aren't student based. We have existing Aqua, Plaza Midtown (2 towers), Metropolis (2 towers), Viewpoint, and Spire rounding out the condo towers. Then we have Skyhouse, Modera Midtown, Alta Midtown, 880 West Peachtree, Hanover at 7th and Peachtree, Eviva, and 3rd and Peachtree proposed. Who knows how many of those will switch to condo when they're done. 3 student towers is just adding street life and hardly taking over Midtown's highrise residential options.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by AtlantaMustang

But 3:5 is wrong to start with.... If we're counting the 2 student buildings that are already built, and one proposed, then we have to do the same for highrise condos/apartments. I don't know why we'd not include new apartments that aren't student based.

Maybe what I'm really trying to get at is whether we've discussed an ideal rent to own ratio for Midtown ? Is this included in the Midtown Blueprint? With our current level of transportation options and density (or lack there of), I believe Midtown should be at the forefront of ensuring a diverse housing stock.

[Frankster87]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Because rent prices are astronomical for the new developments and we should have a diverse supply (architecture, amenities, affordability) of units for home ownership in Atlanta's most urban neighborhood. Comparing to the student housing, I don't find 3:5 to be an appropriate ratio of available comparable modern high-rise complexes between North Ave. and 10th street. The rental developments and student housing are impacting the supply of potential modern, high-rise units to be owned in Midtown.

Yeah, but we'll more than likely see some of these high rise apartments flip to condos, possibly even before they open. Wood Partners already said that Alta on the Park would be built to condo standards and could go condo rather than apartment.

Also, the 3:5 ratio doesn't really hold water. I say that because the student housing complexes (only 2 currently built) are not any more comparable to those condo buildings you mentioned than they would be to the numerous modern high-rise apartment buildings going up. If anything, due to the lack of ownership, the student housing is more comparable to all the high rise apartment buildings going up and proposed, which would be more than 5.

There are as well, several older high rise buildings (although they do not all offer the same amenities) closer to Piedmont Park, north of 10th. Not to everyone's taste, but there you go for variety.

That said, I completely agree with you that there are not enough modern high rise condo buildings to choose from right now, and competition for the supply (when they're even available) is super fierce. We could definitely use a lot more.

[AtlantaMustang]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Maybe what I'm really trying to get at is whether we've discussed an ideal rent to own ratio for Midtown ? Is this included in the Midtown Blueprint? With our current level of transportation options and density (or lack there of), I believe Midtown should be at the forefront of ensuring a diverse housing stock.

That's true, and I wonder if some of the current proposals will convert to condo once they're done, maybe Hanover or another high quality one, or if we'll see some larger condo proposals soon. I'm not really in the know on which developers would be more likely to do/convert to condos instead of apartments.

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Because rent prices are astronomical for the new developments and we should have a diverse supply (architecture, amenities, affordability) of units for home ownership in Atlanta's most urban neighborhood. Comparing to the student housing, I don't find 3:5 to be an appropriate ratio of available comparable modern high-rise complexes between North Ave. and 10th street. The rental developments and student housing are impacting the supply of potential modern, high-rise units to be owned in Midtown.

Then to truly demonstrate the diversity already available you cannot widdle it down to 3 student towers versus 5 condo projects. There's a lot of diversity already within the corridor when you count the density of condos/rentals in the "garden" district area of Midtown between Ponce (or North) and 10th street as well. There are smaller developments that add to the diversity that are somewhat affordable.....affordable doesn't mean you get to pay lower rent and get the same amenities as the high-rises with concierge, pool deck, fitness room, etc.

To neglect the current stock of units - rental or condo- in the submarket just doesn't make any sense.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

March 2016 DRC Recap:
High Performance Computing Center
Portman's new mixed-use development will be located on the east side of Spring Street, between Armstead Place and 4th Street. The project includes approximately 620,000 SF of office, a 100,000 SF data center, 46,500 SF of street-level retail, and 600 parking spaces below grade.


The Standard
Selig's planned mixed-use project located on the southwest corner of Spring Street and 4th Street. The 19-story project includes 280 furnished residential units for students and 9,600 SF of commercial space at the street-level. Parking is provided in a 10-story precast parking deck that is wrapped with residential units on the street-fronting façades.

I am pleasantly surprised by the Standard. Not only because of how well the parking deck is hidden, but that it is taking out the drive thru starbucks that hasn't even been around very long, although it looks like the drive thru could be integrated into the building like the BoA in 1010 is. It is also unique looking.

[cokezero]

Originally Posted by AtlantaMustang

That's true, and I wonder if some of the current proposals will convert to condo once they're done, maybe Hanover or another high quality one, or if we'll see some larger condo proposals soon. I'm not really in the know on which developers would be more likely to do/convert to condos instead of apartments.

The problem right now is that apartment complexes are trading at such low cap rates, the merchant builders (the Novares of the world) are making a whole heck of a lot more money building these towers and flipping them to life insurance funds and groups like that looking to purchase these buildings for long term holding periods for their revenue streams, that the only way we'll likely see any apartments convert to condos in the near future is if this current development cycle grinds to a halt and buildings are foreclosed on.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

I am pleasantly surprised by the Standard. Not only because of how well the parking deck is hidden, but that it is taking out the drive thru starbucks that hasn't even been around very long, although it looks like the drive thru could be integrated into the building like the BoA in 1010 is. It is also unique looking.

Wow, I too am a bit impressed by the Standard thus far. Any word if extending Williams St. southbound will be viable with this project? The scale of the development appears to mesh well with the proposed HPCC. Can only hope the block to the east as well as the south of 3rd Street follows in development. The more development within close proximity to North Ave Station the better

[jpk1292000]

Wow! The Standard looks great! Excellent infill...Midtown is positively smoking hot!

[Martinman]

From an urban standpoint The Standard is great. Design wise however, I'm witholding judgement until there's more information (and renderings). I'm still a little incredulous about the 10 stories of parking. Does anyone know how much parking is at university house?

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by Martinman

From an urban standpoint The Standard is great. Design wise however, I'm witholding judgement until there's more information (and renderings). I'm still a little incredulous about the 10 stories of parking. Does anyone know how much parking is at university house?

I suppose it depends on the footprint. A small lot will need higher levels of parking to get to an appropriate number of spaces. With that said, the deck is wrapped with active uses, so I can't imagine why the number of floors of parking would be an issue.

[Nanosolar]

Seems like the Portman project needs one of those big Roman esq fountains if they are going for the enclosed public square feel.

A partnership between GT, the City, and GDOT to cap the interstate from 5th the North Ave would be great too.