YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[vanlaw]

Originally Posted by Klazu

This was very visible when coming back, as I had to wait an hour for my bag to arrive. There was a constant stream of luggage coming in, but it just took a while to have my bag arrive.

This is my biggest pet peeve with arriving back home at YVR. I've waited an hour after clearing immigration for bags from an LH flight on an A344. It was also close to an hour when we returned from HK on AC's 777HD a while back. I just dont understand how it can be so slow.

Originally Posted by Klazu

One thing that I have not fully understood is why do people transiting at YVR have to pick up their luggage before boarding the next flight? Considering that it can indeed take close to an hour to get your bags, it may cause problems making the connecting flight! We had this happen to us in Toronto, when we were coming back from Chile and missed our connection due to this very reason.

What is the reason for having to pick up the bags? Why can't they be automatically transfered onto the next flight and all the border controls be done at the destination airport?

This is normally the custom everywhere in the world and for example in the US I don't have to do anything similar when transiting at any airport. It seems very complicated and time-wasting process for travelers choosing to transit in Canada, which doesn't work in our benefit IMO.

Probably as simple as the domestic flight would have to arrive at the international terminal at the destination airport. It just doesn't work. In the US, we clear before we get on the plane at YVR. If you transit through the US from a departure airport that doesn't pre-clear, you have to do the same - i.e. arriving at Seatac from Europe, you have to collect bags and clear customs then put your bag back on the belt as you do in Vancouver.

I’ve always wondered how Europe does it. You clear immigration at the entry airport, but you don’t get your bags then you essentially land "domestically" at the destination airport (assuming you landed initially at a Schengen airport and destination airport is within Schengen zone) and there is no customs clearance once you get your bags. I’ve never been able to figure that one out.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by vanlaw

I just dont understand how it can be so slow.

They do prioritize business class bags and also transit bags come first, which makes sense, provided that they are in the hurry. Only after this arrive the bags for those whose destination YVR is.

Originally Posted by vanlaw

In the US, we clear before we get on the plane at YVR.

I am writing this badly jetlagged, so maybe my brains are just running slow, but I don't remember clearing any customs when flying to the US from YVR. You check in, drop your bags at the conveyor belt and then go through the US immigration (not customs). Am I missing something here?

Originally Posted by vanlaw

If you transit through the US from a departure airport that doesn't pre-clear, you have to do the same - i.e. arriving at Seatac from Europe, you have to collect bags and clear customs then put your bag back on the belt as you do in Vancouver.

Didn't know that as I have not flown to Vancouver via US (trying to avoid that on purpose).

Originally Posted by vanlaw

I’ve always wondered how Europe does it.

At most European airports there is no separation between domestic or international terminal. It's all just one and you have the same process for both.

Most of the flights are also direct, but the few times I have had to transit in Germany and UK, I have never had to collect my bags before the next flight. Even when flying through LHR to YVR, one does not need to collect any bags. I encountered that for the first time here in North America.

And my pet peeve is not with immigration, but having to pick up my luggage upon transiting. I also don't see the point, as they can always security check bags behind the scene as much as they want. There should be no reason for passengers to do anything on their side.

[vanlaw]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I am writing this badly jetlagged, so maybe my brains are just running slow, but I don't remember clearing any customs when flying to the US from YVR. You check in, drop your bags at the conveyor belt and then go through the US immigration (not customs). Am I missing something here?

Ok - I see what you are saying. In Vancouver, when you drop your bags on the belt before US security, I recall they scan your boarding pass, and then scan your bag tags, so when you go through US immigration they know how many you have checked. I guess if there was an issue and you get pulled for a secondary they could do a bag pull.

[nname]

Originally Posted by vanlaw

Ok - I see what you are saying. In Vancouver, when you drop your bags on the belt before US security, I recall they scan your boarding pass, and then scan your bag tags, so when you go through US immigration they know how many you have checked. I guess if there was an issue and you get pulled for a secondary they could do a bag pull.

Yes, they'll do a bag pull if you gets into a secondary inspection. I had that once, checked in 3.5 hours early, and took them more than 1.5 hours to find my bag because they had to unload the entire plane in order to find mine as it was one of the very first to be loaded onto the plane.

Ended up delaying the flight so it missed the window before t-storm hitting SFO, which it delayed even more (and so I didn't miss the flight). 5.5 hours delay just for the stupid secondary inspection, pretty stupid IMO.

[LeftCoaster]

G.S MTL in the Canada section put together a great chart based off the numbers I put together (and his own for several other Canadian airports).

Same info but shows the brands so it's a lot more visually appealing.

Originally Posted by G.S MTL

YVR

[trofirhen]

Cool! Thanks, LeftCoaster!

PS/: Does Aeromexico to Mexico City not count? It's outside the USA, hence not "Transborder."

[dharper]

Originally Posted by Klazu

One thing that I have not fully understood is why do people transiting at YVR have to pick up their luggage before boarding the next flight? Considering that it can indeed take close to an hour to get your bags, it may cause problems making the connecting flight! We had this happen to us in Toronto, when we were coming back from Chile and missed our connection due to this very reason.

What is the reason for having to pick up the bags? Why can't they be automatically transfered onto the next flight and all the border controls be done at the destination airport?

This is normally the custom everywhere in the world and for example in the US I don't have to do anything similar when transiting at any airport. It seems very complicated and time-wasting process for travelers choosing to transit in Canada, which doesn't work in our benefit IMO.

If I recall correctly, when I flew from SYD to YVR via LAX with Qantas/Alaska, at LAX, first I went through custom/immigration, claimed my bag, took it about 100 feet, then put it on another belt, walked to a different terminal for flight to YVR.

[connect2source]

Branding looks great LeftCoaster, looking forward to seeing KAL's 748's at YVR!.. only 39 in service worldwide so a rare sight!

[Hot Rod]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Cool! Thanks, LeftCoaster!

PS/: Does Aeromexico to Mexico City not count? It's outside the USA, hence not "Transborder."

Same continent though.

Nice to see those sexy foreign flags. Vancouver's so pretty! wink

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by vanlaw

Ok - I see what you are saying. In Vancouver, when you drop your bags on the belt before US security, I recall they scan your boarding pass, and then scan your bag tags, so when you go through US immigration they know how many you have checked. I guess if there was an issue and you get pulled for a secondary they could do a bag pull.

Someone clear this up for me... but aren't customs and immigration essentially the same thing for an air traveler to the USA?

I realize one technically deals with the importing of goods and one for the importation of people... but for all intents and purposes, you only deal with one person when flying into the US.

Doesn't YVR transborder status technically just put you in quasi-USA soil within the airport?

[LeftCoaster]

So who wants to talk about the January numbers that just came out??

Originally Posted by craneSpotter

Healthy growth for YVR to start 2016....January stats as follows:

Overall 1,625,104 passengers (+6.6% from Jan 2015 - 1,524,588)

Domestic 786,005 (+5.0%)
Transborder 406,107 (+0.1%)
International 432,992 (+16.9%)

Totally nuts growth in Intl'

17% is just astounding. A look at the details uncovers even more jems:

• Europe up 11%
• Misc Intl' up 15%
• Scheduled Misc flights up 25.6%
• Asia up 19%!

The Asia numbers just blow my mind. 19% on that big a number is just astounding, and there are so many more capacity increases yet to begin.

Transborder was a complete wiff, but 2016 is looking like it might be a BIG year.

[trofirhen]

^Maybe time to think about getting on with the terminal expansion (option 3) that Craig Richmond pointed out in his speech some months back.

Also, whatever happened to TWV? It was "supposed" to be operational last spring.
Found this on it. It's still cooking. But exactly when it will come into effect is what I want to know. They speak of it as if it is iminent .... but is it?
https://news.gov.bc.ca/stories/yvr-travellers-increase-with-simplified-visa-free-transit-program#
(and if interested, click on "expand story")

[Hot Rod]

I want to see the International Terminal chevron completed first, with hopefully at least 6-8 more widebody gates with at least 2 of them as A380 (wound't that give us 4 A380 gates in total, more than plenty).

I'd like to see hard construction on the Int'l Chevron immediately and planning for the T3 and taxiway crossway (is that the terminology) in the next year or two.

Expand Expand Expand - but be sure to Expand Int'l first.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

I want to see the International Terminal chevron completed first, with hopefully at least 6-8 more widebody gates with at least 2 of them as A380 (wound't that give us 4 A380 gates in total, more than plenty).

I'd like to see hard construction on the Int'l Chevron immediately and planning for the T3 and taxiway crossway (is that the terminology) in the next year or two.

Expand Expand Expand - but be sure to Expand Int'l first.

I agree expanding International first makes the most sense. There are swing gates between domestic and international as well as swing gates between international and US. Expanding international means the swing gates can be used for their other purposes longer.

I am not certain I like that x-gate thing in the middle of the crossway runway. Toronto and Montreal both have one of these little infield terminals connected to the main terminal by an underground walkway. You go down and back up. It always feels like a long way out.

Come to think of it Geneva also has one (Air Canada use to operate out it). In there case it is round. Round circular terminals are neat. If we must have one of these I vote for it being round instead of a cross. Even the Swiss who have a think for crosses have a round in field terminal.

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Also, whatever happened to TWV? It was "supposed" to be operational last spring.

I found this government page regarding TWOV - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/twov/travellers.asp. Looks like only nationals from Indonesia, Thailand, Taiwan and the Philippines qualify, and they also have to meet the following conditions:

• They travel to Canada on an approved airline (either Air Canada, Air Canada Rouge, Air China, WestJet, Cathay Pacific, Philippines Airlines, China Southern, Jazz Air, Sky Regional Airlines Inc., and Air Georgian); and
• They transit through an approved Canadian airport (either Vancouver International Airport or Toronto’s Pearson International Airport, Terminal 1 only). A change of terminal between flights in Toronto’s Pearson International Airport does not qualify as a condition of the TWOV program.

Wasn't the main goal of the program proponents to include Chinese nationals

Edit: whoops found this - the China Transit Program. Looks like Chinese nationals have a seperate program altogether.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/ctp/eligibility.asp

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

The Asia numbers just blow my mind. 19% on that big a number is just astounding, and there are so many more capacity increases yet to begin.

Transborder was a complete wiff, but 2016 is looking like it might be a BIG year.

Yes indeed. If I have been following this thread close enough, I do believe there is some decent transborder and International flight (capacity/route) expansion happening this year @ YVR

February numbers should be great too, regular growth plus an extra day

so possible 2016 PAX numbers based on the following growth rates (2015=20,315,978):

+4% = 21,128,617

+5% = 21,331,777

+6% = 21,534,937

+7% = 21,738,097

[dharper]

I looking at the yvr.ca website yesterday, trying to find any information on the north south taxiway, or the next terminal expansion. The only thing I found on the website was a 20 year plan link, called yvr2027.ca. (Kind of dated) On this it had a time line that the north south taxiway was to be built in 2014, and the terminal expansion was to be built in 2015. Not sure if those were start or completion dates, but either way, they are behind the latest info I could find.
Does anyone have any idea when either of these project are to be started?

[Johnny Aussie]

January stats... Wow. Exceeded my expectations.

100,000 more pax than Jan 15.

Transborder certainly ground to a halt. Tipping more US visitors still but offset by plummeting Canadian originating pax due to the $.

Compared to other Canadian cities reporting January (so far) Transborder is an excellent result.

But look at Asia, Europe and Misc Int'l. Amazing!

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by dharper

I looking at the yvr.ca website yesterday, trying to find any information on the north south taxiway, or the next terminal expansion. The only thing I found on the website was a 20 year plan link, called yvr2027.ca. (Kind of dated) On this it had a time line that the north south taxiway was to be built in 2014, and the terminal expansion was to be built in 2015. Not sure if those were start or completion dates, but either way, they are behind the latest info I could find.
Does anyone have any idea when either of these project are to be started?

As far as the next terminal expansion goes, the current plan - expansion 2020 - was to request approval to spend $400 million to add 5 gates to the International terminal and 5 gates to Pier A. Also, an older section of Pier B is to be renovated. They are hoping for approval by May 2016. After expansion 2020, they wish to spend ~1 billion+ on one of three expansion proposals - all outlined by this article :

https://www.biv.com/article/2015/11/critics-question-yvrs-400m-terminal-expansion-plan/

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Klazu

One thing that I have not fully understood is why do people transiting at YVR have to pick up their luggage before boarding the next flight? Considering that it can indeed take close to an hour to get your bags, it may cause problems making the connecting flight! We had this happen to us in Toronto, when we were coming back from Chile and missed our connection due to this very reason.

What is the reason for having to pick up the bags? Why can't they be automatically transfered onto the next flight and all the border controls be done at the destination airport?

This is normally the custom everywhere in the world and for example in the US I don't have to do anything similar when transiting at any airport. It seems very complicated and time-wasting process for travelers choosing to transit in Canada, which doesn't work in our benefit IMO.

Pax having to pick up their bags to go through Customs and Immigration inspection is a CBSA or USCBP requirement. The customs people want you to identify and collect your bags so that they can assess duties and see if you are over the exemption limit for importing personal items.

In both Canada and USA, personal exemption limits only apply to bags that are dragged across the border by the respective individual. Items that sent via courier have zero personal exemption limit. In order to apply this legal standard, the traveler must personally import the items.

The 1 hour delay in getting your bags off the international flight is also a CBSA or USCBP thing. Watch the Border Security: Protecting America's Border TV program on Global. The American version gives a much better description of the behind the scenes bag inspection that is conducted by the Customs people. The Canadian's do similar amount of behind the scenes inspection, however nothing is ever disclosed publicly.

For example it is not uncommon for CBSA to require all bags off a specific flight be lined up and then inspected by canine. Once the dog does their sniff test the bags can be released onto the belt. this adds time as all bags must be offloaded, then canine does their job, followed by all cleared bags being released at the same time.

Originally Posted by vanlaw

This is my biggest pet peeve with arriving back home at YVR. I've waited an hour after clearing immigration for bags from an LH flight on an A344. It was also close to an hour when we returned from HK on AC's 777HD a while back. I just dont understand how it can be so slow.

See above for the unseen hand of the government wanting to do all kinds of inspection behind the scenes.

From a HKG perspective, its a hot source country for both drug and agricultural items. This requires the use of either canine or xray technology, either method is time consuming.

Originally Posted by vanlaw

I’ve always wondered how Europe does it. You clear immigration at the entry airport, but you don’t get your bags then you essentially land "domestically" at the destination airport (assuming you landed initially at a Schengen airport and destination airport is within Schengen zone) and there is no customs clearance once you get your bags. I’ve never been able to figure that one out.

The difference between Canada/USA/Australia and Europe/Certain Asia Countries is that Customs laws have much high personal exemptions in the latter countries.

Example, buddy was transporting computer servers into an Asian country and upon claiming his luggage proceeded through the "red lane" to pay customs bill that was estimated to be $10,000 CAD. The officer took a quick look and told my buddy to proceed on through. In Canada or the USA, duties of $10 get flagged for immediate payment.

In Europe, your personal exemption is in thousands of dollars and there are few quantity exemptions. In Canada there is very low personal exemption for under 72 hour excursions plus many items have quantity limits (e.g. cannot import more than 20lbs of cheese).

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Someone clear this up for me... but aren't customs and immigration essentially the same thing for an air traveler to the USA?

I realize one technically deals with the importing of goods and one for the importation of people... but for all intents and purposes, you only deal with one person when flying into the US.

Customs and immigration are very different from a legal perspective. For entering Canada, Canadian citizens have mobility rights under section 6 of Charter of Rights and Freedoms, contents have no similar provisions.

From a primary inspection line perspective in both CBSA and USCBP world, the officer is one person. However if there is any issue on either customs or immigration perspective, the traveler is sent to secondary inspection where the officers are specialized into either immigration officer or customs officer.