YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I really don't see QF sending their A380s to YVR. It's just too big a beast. QF only use them on LAX and DXB/LHR from SYD and MEL and from SYD to HKG only.

To really give AC (and NZ) some serious competition QF would need to do SYD-YVR daily and the 787-9 would be the perfect equipment for that (without F class).

Do you see that as an eventuality? And will Melbourne ever come on stream with QF 789 (or AC 789)? It seems to be a fast-growing city.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Do you see that as an eventuality? And will Melbourne ever come on stream with QF 789 (or AC 789)? It seems to be a fast-growing city.

YVR-SYD year-round on the 787-9 is one of the routes mostly talked about including from the CEO himself. It's certainly no secret that may be the launch route. But like any route, I'm sure they are constantly watching the economics on a weekly basis so who knows. With QF increasing the seasonality of SYD-YVR each year as well I think that is inevitable. I would guess daily for at least Peak northern summer and southern summer. Perhaps not daily for the shoulder seasons.

As for Melbourne growing fast?? Too fast! Over 100,000 per annum and I'm noticing it. MEL airport is growing so fast it's starting to struggle handling international ops. January 2016 it grew another 11%. New terminal T4 opened recently for some of the LCC operations and it was muchly needed. But they seriously need to do something with International T2 ASAP! And as for MEL-YVR? I bet we see AC on that first.

Just to give you guys an idea of population of Australian cities (estimates at 30 June 2015):

Sydney 4.92 million
Melbourne 4.55 million
Brisbane 2.32 million
Perth 2.07 million
Adelaide 1.32 million

That's it for cities > 1 million the next largest metro area would be Gold Coast down around 600+ thousand.

[trofirhen]

Interesting that Brisbane and Vancouver are so similar in population: Brisbane at 2.32 m /as of summer 2015 and Vancouver / July 2015/ at 2.5 m.
Toronto 6.12m and Montreal 4m, including all the other larger Canadian cities, are all feeder roiutes into the YVR - Australia market. The AC YVR - Sydney flight is, I believe same-plane service from YYZ. As such, with the infeed of Australia-bound pax from the ROC through YVR, we'll be seeing an uptick of frequencies and destinations, now that the bilateral has freed up.
(But of course, that's rather self-explanatory and already widely understood) It makes me happy, anyway.

[Gordon]

When re we likely to see the next phase of ITB expansion start & YVR?
Any idea how the Pier A work is progerssing?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

You're daydreaming, I take it. First off, Singapore and Emirates don't fly here.
Korean? Hmm, a long shot, but maybe. Qantas? More likely 789s when they (or AC) start up Melbourne.

Singapore's Big Tops and Mega Tops used to fly here via Seoul, so the airline can choose to restart the route. Emirates has the most number of A380s (49 now maybe) in their fleet among all the airlines, so if they choose to fly here one day, that would be an A380. Both Korean and Qantas do enjoy high passenger volumes so I'd like to see them bring in the A380s one day. That would leave all the North American airplanes to "shame"....hahaha.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I really don't see QF sending their A380s to YVR. It's just too big a beast. QF only use them on LAX and DXB/LHR from SYD and MEL and from SYD to HKG only.

I think Qantas is not sending their A380s here only because there aren't airlines here giving them competition to bring in "the beast". For the Asian/European city routes, they are facing stiffer competition from almost every major airline that actually has the A380s, including, British Airways, Lufthansa, Air France, Singapore (SIA), Garuda, Malaysian (MAS), ANA, Korean Air, Asiana, Thai, Emirates, Ethihad, Qatar, Virgin Atlantic, and a couple more. They have to bring in "the beast" to those airports to counter the heavyweights there. In north America, nah, a 747 would do. However, this would certainly change when more airlines follow British Airways by bringing in their A380s to Vancouver, hopefully. Remember that many Chinese airlines still do not possess the A380s, but I'm sure that would change in the near future. I'm also hoping that China Southern Airlines will bring in their A380 some day soon.

[Orcair]

Originally Posted by Vin

I think Qantas is not sending their A380s here only because there aren't airlines here giving them competition to bring in "the beast". For the Asian/European city routes, they are facing stiffer competition from almost every major airline that actually has the A380s, including, British Airways, Lufthansa, Air France, Singapore (SIA), Garuda, Malaysian (MAS), ANA, Korean Air, Asiana, Thai, Emirates, Ethihad, Qatar, Virgin Atlantic, and a couple more. They have to bring in "the beast" to those airports to counter the heavyweights there. In north America, nah, a 747 would do. However, this would certainly change when more airlines follow British Airways by bringing in their A380s to Vancouver, hopefully. Remember that many Chinese airlines still do not possess the A380s, but I'm sure that would change in the near future. I'm also hoping that China Southern Airlines will bring in their A380 some day soon.

YVR, even currently, has way more INTL traffic than it proportionally should, given its population. Qantas would only bring the 380 here if they could actually fill it, which I doubt they could do without obliterating yield. The 787-9 has 3 classes (something that is more reflective of the Canadian market vs. the 4 on the 380), has better range and protects the yield because of its much lower capacity. Qantas could also offer higher frequency with the 789 vs. the 380 which seems to be the major problem currently for 380 operators.

(spoken as someone who loves the 380)

[nname]

Seems like WestJet is adding seasonal flights this summer from Vancouver to London, ON, and Hamilton

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1107

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Orcair

YVR, even currently, has way more INTL traffic than it proportionally should, given its population. Qantas would only bring the 380 here if they could actually fill it, which I doubt they could do without obliterating yield. The 787-9 has 3 classes (something that is more reflective of the Canadian market vs. the 4 on the 380), has better range and protects the yield because of its much lower capacity. Qantas could also offer higher frequency with the 789 vs. the 380 which seems to be the major problem currently for 380 operators.

(spoken as someone who loves the 380)

Ok you got a point there, so maybe not from Qantas, but perhaps a higher-yielding city from asia could do it. I remember flying an A380 from Singapore to Melbourne return before and the planes were full. Many of the Asia-bound planes from YVR are always fully-loaded, so I can see that happening with the A380s too.

[DDP]

Originally Posted by nname

Seems like WestJet is adding seasonal flights this summer from Vancouver to London, ON, and Hamilton

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1107

Shifting planes away from Alberta? I'm always surprised Waterloo isn't on the list, it is close to Toronto But has a large high income population of 500,000 plus.

Also bringing in Brandon MB- Toronto.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by DDP

Shifting planes away from Alberta? I'm always surprised Waterloo isn't on the list, it is close to Toronto But has a large high income population of 500,000 plus.

Also bringing in Brandon MB- Toronto.

The CEO of Westjet indicated they would be shuffling capacity around.

Westjet did try YVR-YKF before in 2010. It lasted one summer season. Westjet also tried YHM (2006) and YXU (2009-2010) nonstop flights in the past. I guess they are giving the latter two another crack.

[nname]

Well at least this time, they could code-share with those non-star-alliance airlines, so maybe it will help the load a bit

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

Well at least this time, they could code-share with those non-star-alliance airlines, so maybe it will help the load a bit

Yes, there are a few of those. Flight times may work for some of them.

With the latest additions, Westjet will offer 458 flights per week from YVR this summer to 29 destinations. 106 of those weekly flights are on Encore.

[SFUVancouver]

CBC piece about the growth of tourism with France, enabled, in no small part, by the direct Air France service.

B.C. tourism numbers boosted by international visitors
French tourists take the top spot for international visitors to B.C.

The Canadian Press Posted: Feb 23, 2016 3:28 PM PT

The British Columbia government says the number of international visitors to the province is increasing and France comes first on a list of seven countries and regions.

It says tourism to B.C. from France jumped by 33 per cent in 2014 compared to the previous year.

[...]

Almost 360,000 more international visitors came to the province in 2015, with the total number approaching five million people.

The ministry is crediting its marketing strategy, along with the province's aboriginal tourism sector and more direct flights to B.C. for the jump in visitors from outside Canada.

It says B.C.'s tourism sector is growing despite fierce global competition for tourists and that the industry generated $14.6 billion in revenue in 2014.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/tourism-bc-international-numbers-1.3460923

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

CBC piece about the growth of tourism with France, enabled, in no small part, by the direct Air France service.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/tourism-bc-international-numbers-1.3460923

I used to rave on about that years ago, so it's nice to see it working out so well. Hey!! Look at Mexico! Right up there!! Great to see.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

And I said above... I wouldn't be surprised to see EVA bump both YVR and YYZ to daily as there are still 4 unused frequencies on Canada-Taiwan bilateral. I'm just not sure who gets them BR or CI? As both airlines phase out their 744s and the aircraft replacing these all have fewer seats, more frequencies will be the key if they want to maintain capacity.

I just figured this out... There is no more unused frequency. CI took the other 4 and placed them onto "seasonal" service to YVR.

When the bilateral increased to 17, BR increase both YVR and YYZ service to 4x weekly, and CI took the rest and ran TPE-YVR at 9x weekly for one week. This add up to 17x weekly total.

When the bilateral increased to 21, BR increase both YVR and YYZ to 5x weekly, and CI took the rest and throw all to YVR as they ran the route 11x weekly for one week only, Dec 19-25, and drop to 5x weekly the week after.

This post says it all:
http://airlineroute.net/2015/07/17/ci-yvr-w15update2/

The only reason they ran those flights is to prevent BR from using those frequency. I expect them to do this again this coming summer.

So this is the distribution:
BR TPE-YVR 5x weekly
BR TPE-YYZ 5x weekly
CI TPE-YVR 11x weekly (4-6x weekly being seasonal)

That's it, the 21x weekly are all used up.

[casper]

Originally Posted by nname

I just figured this out... There is no more unused frequency. CI took the other 4 and placed them onto "seasonal" service to YVR.

When the bilateral increased to 17, BR increase both YVR and YYZ service to 4x weekly, and CI took the rest and ran TPE-YVR at 9x weekly for one week. This add up to 17x weekly total.

When the bilateral increased to 21, BR increase both YVR and YYZ to 5x weekly, and CI took the rest and throw all to YVR as they ran the route 11x weekly for one week only, Dec 19-25, and drop to 5x weekly the week after.

This post says it all:
http://airlineroute.net/2015/07/17/ci-yvr-w15update2/

The only reason they ran those flights is to prevent BR from using those frequency. I expect them to do this again this coming summer.

So this is the distribution:
BR TPE-YVR 5x weekly
BR TPE-YYZ 5x weekly
CI TPE-YVR 11x weekly (4-6x weekly being seasonal)

That's it, the 21x weekly are all used up.

That sounds sneaky. I have flow BR a few times never CI. People I know in Taiwan avoid CI at all cost. Mostly because of safety concerns.

Would love to see BR go daily.

[Spork]

CI is totally fine. Good service, comfortable planes, reasonably reliable departure/landing times. The last time they had a fault that caused an accident was 1998 (barring 2002, which was caused by a fault in 1980).

[Klazu]

Never flown either one but they both have four star rating by Skytrax. BR does have slightly better reviees though. Too bad that I just returned from TPE and didn't have the chance to fly them. Although business class on HX was reeally nice instead.

[Klazu]

Yesterday I returned to Vancouver after amazing two weeks in Asia. Flying Air Canada's high-density 777 both ways wasn't that bad and I am happy that I didn't spend money upgrading my seat (even exit row would have cost $120 one way!).

It is a huge plane that takes over 450 passengers. Interestingly on the route to Hong Kong even in economy class the luggage allowance is two pieces of maximum 23 kilograms. That means that there can be up to 900 pieces of luggage on the plane! This was very visible when coming back, as I had to wait an hour for my bag to arrive. There was a constant stream of luggage coming in, but it just took a while to have my bag arrive.

I noticed that there were hundreds of bags on their way to elsewhere in Canada. YOW seemed especially common destination, but overall it seems that YVR is a big transit point for Canadians traveling to Hong Kong, which is great!

One thing that I have not fully understood is why do people transiting at YVR have to pick up their luggage before boarding the next flight? Considering that it can indeed take close to an hour to get your bags, it may cause problems making the connecting flight! We had this happen to us in Toronto, when we were coming back from Chile and missed our connection due to this very reason.

What is the reason for having to pick up the bags? Why can't they be automatically transfered onto the next flight and all the border controls be done at the destination airport?

This is normally the custom everywhere in the world and for example in the US I don't have to do anything similar when transiting at any airport. It seems very complicated and time-wasting process for travelers choosing to transit in Canada, which doesn't work in our benefit IMO.