Calgary International Airport II - Page 218

Cage · #**4341** Posted **Feb 16, 2016, 6:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

It has to work, or else they risk losing the slot if they dont use it. I dont see them starting YWG-LHR, at least not anymore. And they can't transfer the slot out east, due to bad timing.

YEG, YYC, or YVR; that slot always does well in the peak summer. The problem with the slot (and LHR in general) is the period from October to April.

Also IIRC the slot pair (defined as one arrival and one departure) is actually two slot-pairs, one for summer and the second for winter. AC could sell, lease out, or drop the winter slot if it so desires.

yyc_engineer · #**4342** Posted **Feb 16, 2016, 6:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cage

YEG, YYC, or YVR; that slot always does well in the peak summer. The problem with the slot (and LHR in general) is the period from October to April.

Also IIRC the slot pair (defined as one arrival and one departure) is actually two slot-pairs, one for summer and the second for winter. AC could sell, lease out, or drop the winter slot if it so desires.

They should lease out the winter slot. Oman Air just purchased a slot pair for LHR for 75M USD. I don't forsee much pax growth from Western Canada to LHR in the upcoming winter, at least not from Alberta, with WS flying year round YYC-LGW, BA sending the 787 to YYC and A380 to YVR and AC already sending the HD 77W ex YVR.

LeftCoaster · #**4343** Posted **Feb 16, 2016, 8:16 PM**

I've updated my International widebody charts to include the latest equipment changes and not I've added seats and a handy summary! I'm sure there are a few errors here and there but for the most part it's pretty accurate.

As always feeback is welcome!

Also, you can check out the YVR and YEG charts in the Canada section if you're interested.

casper · #**4344** Posted **Feb 17, 2016, 3:14 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

It has to work, or else they risk losing the slot if they dont use it. I dont see them starting YWG-LHR, at least not anymore. And they can't transfer the slot out east, due to bad timing.

Way back in history (well the 90s) Air Canada use to operate a YWG-LHR flight a few days a week. I don't remember how long it lasted. I was working with several people in YWG at the time that loved it. I never used it myself. I don't know what the passenger profile would have been but I suspect they were picking up connecting traffic from Saskatchewan and Alberta to make it work.

That said, I agree the likelihood of YWG ever returning is remote.

DSC · #**4345** Posted **Feb 17, 2016, 5:27 AM**

I heard that the BA YYC- LHR is in trouble and might get cancelled is that true?

#**4346** Posted **Feb 17, 2016, 5:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

As always feeback is welcome!

I'd just stack the tables on top of each other so the entire image doesn't span the width of two monitors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSC

I heard that the BA YYC- LHR is in trouble and might get cancelled is that true?

Nah. Not for the moment.

Bigtime · #**4347** Posted **Feb 17, 2016, 1:49 PM**

Outta left field (and probably with some HUGE discounts from Bombardier), Air Canada is going to purchase the C Series as part of their fleet renewal plans:

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=984

Letter of Intent signed for up to 75 (45 firm plus 30 options) CS300, deliveries to start in late 2019 through 2022. They are replacing the Embraer 190's with the first 25 deliveries.

#**4348** Posted **Feb 17, 2016, 2:45 PM**

No doubt it would be a mix of the 100 and 300, given that the E190 is configured 9J/88Y and the CS300 will probably be in the 130-140 seat range. Must be to replace the 319 which is 14J/106Y.

Cage · #**4349** Posted **Feb 18, 2016, 12:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Outta left field (and probably with some HUGE discounts from Bombardier), Air Canada is going to purchase the C Series as part of their fleet renewal plans:

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=984

Letter of Intent signed for up to 75 (45 firm plus 30 options) CS300, deliveries to start in late 2019 through 2022. They are replacing the Embraer 190's with the first 25 deliveries.

Huge discounts from BBD, Quebec drops their lawsuit for no costs to AC (the government won round one), Federal government agrees to amend the AC Public Participation Act (ACPPA). Additionally I suspect the AC won a lot of goodwill with the current Liberal gov't.

The goodwill is the unsung advantage for AC. Essentially AC has purchased the CS300 over the 737-7, where WS did the opposite. Further this week WS has turned down the CS300.

At some point in WS international widebody plans the airline will want to have access to international route rights. Traditionally in a two airline scenario (the last being 1990s between AC and CP) the allocation of route rights are much of a political hot potato as pipelines and national resource extraction.

I predict the door is closing on WS desire to get into slot controlled non-open skies routes. The more WS says the 737-7 is the best aircraft, the more they undermine GoC and Quebec's support for airline manufacturing business.

If WS ever needs help getting into China, Japan, LHR, CDG, etc. they will have to get route authorities from Fed's.

The final kicker, it would not surprise me if the Federal Government pulls the French language provisions of ACPPA and places them into the Transport Canada Act. Suddenly WS and Porter will have to abide by the french language provisions. This will cost WS millions to implement and tie up Management resources for years. For AC the cost is zero because they have complied from day one.

VIce · #**4350** Posted **Feb 18, 2016, 12:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Outta left field (and probably with some HUGE discounts from Bombardier), Air Canada is going to purchase the C Series as part of their fleet renewal plans:

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=984

Letter of Intent signed for up to 75 (45 firm plus 30 options) CS300, deliveries to start in late 2019 through 2022. They are replacing the Embraer 190's with the first 25 deliveries.

That would bring them within a hair's width of their 300 order goal. Glad to hear it - it's been a long time since the last CSeries sales news.

DSC · #**4351** Posted **Feb 18, 2016, 3:55 AM**

So with the new Hainan route what are the odds of other airlines like Cathay or ANA staring service to YYC?

casper · #**4352** Posted **Feb 18, 2016, 12:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSC

So with the new Hainan route what are the odds of other airlines like Cathay or ANA staring service to YYC?

ANA and AC are star alliance partners. They are unlikely to compete head on with each other. A second daily Tokyo service is not likely.

In other Canadian cities there is massive growth in flights to China. I think you need to see the new seats to China absorbed by the market before a new flight comes along from Cathay or anyone else.

PPAR · #**4353** Posted **Feb 19, 2016, 3:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cage

Huge discounts from BBD, Quebec drops their lawsuit for no costs to AC (the government won round one), Federal government agrees to amend the AC Public Participation Act (ACPPA). Additionally I suspect the AC won a lot of goodwill with the current Liberal gov't.

The goodwill is the unsung advantage for AC. Essentially AC has purchased the CS300 over the 737-7, where WS did the opposite. Further this week WS has turned down the CS300.

At some point in WS international widebody plans the airline will want to have access to international route rights. Traditionally in a two airline scenario (the last being 1990s between AC and CP) the allocation of route rights are much of a political hot potato as pipelines and national resource extraction.

I predict the door is closing on WS desire to get into slot controlled non-open skies routes. The more WS says the 737-7 is the best aircraft, the more they undermine GoC and Quebec's support for airline manufacturing business.

If WS ever needs help getting into China, Japan, LHR, CDG, etc. they will have to get route authorities from Fed's.

The final kicker, it would not surprise me if the Federal Government pulls the French language provisions of ACPPA and places them into the Transport Canada Act. Suddenly WS and Porter will have to abide by the french language provisions. This will cost WS millions to implement and tie up Management resources for years. For AC the cost is zero because they have complied from day one.

Nice summary Cage. I was surprised when the CEO of Westjet chose to badmouth Bombardier (nothing like kicking someone when they are down). I suspect something happened behind the scenes that really pissed him off. I would guess huge pressure from the Feds to buy the C-series. The Liberals desperately need to bail out the Bomber without overt use of taxpayer money. AC being based in Quebec was always going to buy the plane.
I do hope that the Cseries is a success story for Canada. We desperately need this kind of high tech, high profile manufacturing.

casper · #**4354** Posted **Feb 19, 2016, 5:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PPAR

Nice summary Cage. I was surprised when the CEO of Westjet chose to badmouth Bombardier (nothing like kicking someone when they are down). I suspect something happened behind the scenes that really pissed him off. I would guess huge pressure from the Feds to buy the C-series. The Liberals desperately need to bail out the Bomber without overt use of taxpayer money. AC being based in Quebec was always going to buy the plane.
I do hope that the Cseries is a success story for Canada. We desperately need this kind of high tech, high profile manufacturing.

I don't have any inside info. However there was article about the same time taking about how WestJet went to both Boeing and Bombardier asking to delay the deliver dates for some of the new 737 and Dash-8. Boeing said yes. Bombadier said no. A day or two after you have the CEO of WestJet saying positive things about one vendor and negative things about the other.

I agree Canada needs high value high-tech products. The US does it by military spending we do it in other ways.

suburbia · #**4355** Posted **Feb 19, 2016, 5:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper

... there was article about the same time taking about how WestJet went to both Boeing and Bombardier asking to delay the deliver dates for some of the new 737 and Dash-8. Boeing said yes. Bombadier said no.

There has to be some understanding for that response from Bombardier. It is like you're giving out a food voucher to a starving homeless person on a contract that says you must give it, and you come in and say I know you're starving and I know I'm contractually obliged to give it to you ... but I only got five courses of food today and I'm used to six ... so can I give it to you tomorrow instead? You're already used to starving so it shouldn't be a problem. Well yeah, Bombardier said no.

#**4356** Posted **Feb 19, 2016, 11:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper

Boeing said yes. Bombadier said no.

To be fair, I imagine it's not so black and white. One has to consider the originally slated delivery dates, the number of frames requesting to be deferred, the length of deferral, the number of frames for other carriers that each manufacturer was scheduled to produce, so on and so forth...

No doubt for some of these factors there are significant differences between Boeing and Bombardier as far as WS is concerned; for example, we're all aware Boeing is building 738's till they're blue in the face. The WS deferral is likely negligible.

MrBigStuff · #**4357** Posted **Feb 21, 2016, 12:43 AM**

Just noticed - but Westjet is starting service to Nashville - ( I guess they're trying it out for one summer season ) It's from YYZ - but it's a start. Put it this way - I hope it will fly!!!HA HA!!!

DSC · #**4358** Posted **Feb 21, 2016, 1:34 AM**

Does Calgary get any AC 773 operations?

Johnny Aussie · #**4359** Posted **Feb 21, 2016, 1:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSC

Does Calgary get any AC 773 operations?

Not anymore on a regular basis no. All long haul international flights will be Dreamliners going forward. LHR and FRA on the 787-9 and NRT on the 787-8.

casper · #**4360** Posted **Feb 21, 2016, 6:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbia

There has to be some understanding for that response from Bombardier. It is like you're giving out a food voucher to a starving homeless person on a contract that says you must give it, and you come in and say I know you're starving and I know I'm contractually obliged to give it to you ... but I only got five courses of food today and I'm used to six ... so can I give it to you tomorrow instead? You're already used to starving so it shouldn't be a problem. Well yeah, Bombardier said no.

Certain there is some negotiation that goes on behind the scene. There was likely a cost to WestJet in some way to get out of the deal. The fact Bombardier and WestJet could not come up with a deal that works is indicative of the relationship.