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  #5181  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2016, 11:22 PM
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s.p.hansen s.p.hansen is offline
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Since I know you guys are all visual and not into a wall of text.

Here is what I think you could do with 30 million dollars.





A lot has been said about retail since the recovery from the recession. Here is a brief restating of the facts:

1. The major retail hubs that have formed like Saks Fifth Avenue are still king and still thriving with the most high-end stores and are seemingly immune to a weakening middle class (the malls the One Percent shop at). The closet place the One Percent shops between SLC and Denver is Las Vegas.

2.
Indoor malls that are in market hotspots (perfect locations) have been able to grow without rebuilds. Fashion Place mall is the only clear example of this in Utah. The location and ease of vehicle access at the convergence of I-15 and 2-15 has made this a winner for decades.

3. The internet and ease of access via smartphones that most people own has cut out of the broad market share of every other mall not fitting the above criteria. Couple that with a general overbuild of malls and continual overbuilding of malls happening now in Utah.

Given the above facts let’s consider our retail situation downtown. On 3rd West and Main Street you have a lot of independent and local restaurants, bars, clubs, and shops. The overall health is good and getting better. Rents are going up and the quality is going up.

There is a unified effort by the City, the Church, and the Chamber of Commerce to retrofit and restructure downtown with an aim towards one giant integrated and urban themed downtown experience. The brand of downtown is now an urban lifestyle alternative to the sea of suburbia surrounding it. This means better transit, and more equitable streets for pedestrians and bikes. If downtown is going to succeed it has to create a kind of critical mass that pulls people out of the suburbs into it because of more than just a mall. And yes there is an emphasis on people living above retail, but that has more to do with filling the streets with people to attract more people. Make no mistake, downtown still needs to pull people in from commuting distances to succeed in the way we all want it to.

Which brings us to the Gateway. The Gateway is not a part of this urban fabric that has been strengthened throughout downtown over the last 10 years. It is not built around an urban counterculture to Utah suburban life. The massing is giant like that of the old down town malls with ZCMI and Crossroads. It’s a giant wall that marks the end of walkable downtown. The least walkable side of the mall is the side facing the rest of downtown because that is where they wanted to catch the most car traffic for the parking entrances. City Creek Center knew car traffic would be their most important carrier of customers to their property, but they also knew that accommodating cars while prioritizing pedestrians would be more important for the urban brand. This contrast is why City Creek Center is urban and The Gateway is Suburban.

The error with the Gateway was the assumption that people just didn’t like old things and so a newer mall built on suburban values could weather the storm. They took an indoor mall and put apartments on top and took the roof off, but it is still an indoor mall in most respects. It’s still a fortress and a visual dead end.

30 million is still a lot of money. It is certainly enough money to tear down Dick’s and rebuild a kind of corridor with shops on both sides that will perforate that a critical segment of the dead end (the area that could get spill off pedestrians from every event held at Vivint Arena). This is a basic one tenant building. We’re not talking about tearing down the old Key Bank building for the sake of pedestrian traffic flow at City Creek Center. It’s very doable. The value of losing one big tenant to increase the overall value of that entire block while simultaneously creating multiple new spots for tenants along the sides of this corridor does not equal a long term loss of rental income. And if it helps save the entire lifestyle center, it would obviously be worth it even if it did.

There’s no way this place ever becomes a successful mall again if it stays suburban. At best it will just be a strip mall for all the people living nearby. And what you are all doing, suggesting stores and other things to save it, it’s not going to do anything. Sorry. Better stores won’t come until you fix the layout with the pedestrian and car interface. The Gateway needs to be reformed into the rest of the forming urban fabric of downtown.

Last edited by s.p.hansen; Feb 4, 2016 at 1:27 AM.
     
     
  #5182  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 5:54 AM
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I hate to tell you this, but... They are not going to tear down Dicks
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  #5183  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 1:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajiuO View Post
I hate to tell you this, but... They are not going to tear down Dicks
Hahaha. I can just feel the pain this was written with.
     
     
  #5184  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 1:29 PM
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S.P., Great read! Even if they're not going to tear down Dicks, they need to definitely consider the engagement of that street. The way it is now is far less than ideal. Perhaps, something along the lines of what Makid was suggesting would be a good solution, and very doable.
     
     
  #5185  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 1:50 PM
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The engagement issue is irrelevant. It's an excuse. The Gateway's street engagement is no worse than City Creek - which has zero street engagement, as well. It won't matter if you bulldoze the entire 400 West wall if what's inside doesn't offer anything decent.
     
     
  #5186  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 4:40 PM
flyinpenguin flyinpenguin is offline
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Gateway Improvements

Vestar appears to be a top notch company in regards to their properties. It does not seem like they have a bad one in their portfolio. If I had to guess the property to look at as comparison to what they could do with Gateway is: http://www.vestar.com/properties/westgate-entertainment-district/ Boyer knew what was coming and that is why they unloaded it to Inland. Unfortunately they didn't have experience in turning around something of this caliber. I agree with some comments made that the property needs to be opened up on the 300 West side. The parking garages are terrible. However it is open on Sunday which is a big plus. I just don't know if we can attract enough new food properties with the required "zion curtain". The other big thing that would help would be to have the theater entrance on the main floor. And with AMC and Regal coming in with all reclining seats and a premium experience it is probably time for some serious upgrades to the Megaplex.
     
     
  #5187  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 6:43 PM
Liberty Wellsian Liberty Wellsian is offline
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This seems like it would make everybody happy. The residential would require a conditional building review, the new midblock street should allow it to pass design review easily(if it were to happen).

     
     
  #5188  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 6:48 PM
Liberty Wellsian Liberty Wellsian is offline
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^also discovery gateway should be moved across the street(100 south) and merged w/the planetarium.
     
     
  #5189  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 8:03 PM
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  #5190  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2016, 2:59 AM
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s.p.hansen s.p.hansen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
The engagement issue is irrelevant. It's an excuse. The Gateway's street engagement is no worse than City Creek - which has zero street engagement, as well. It won't matter if you bulldoze the entire 400 West wall if what's inside doesn't offer anything decent.
That's what I find so funny about all this. People act like me suggesting tearing down a struggling sporting goods store is crazy talk when we have such a sizable track record of partially and fully torn down malls and other buildings downtown. If past is prologue then the gateway will get torn down in the next 15-20 years.
     
     
  #5191  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2016, 7:04 AM
Liberty Wellsian Liberty Wellsian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.p.hansen View Post
That's what I find so funny about all this. People act like me suggesting tearing down a struggling sporting goods store is crazy talk when we have such a sizable track record of partially and fully torn down malls and other buildings downtown. If past is prologue then the gateway will get torn down in the next 15-20 years.
I think everybody agrees with you about what the basic problem of the gateway layout is. We all think that it is an uninviting disconnected behemoth that walls itself off. If you think about it you have singled out the wrong part of the mall to fix. Despite being a large store Dick's doesn't occupy that much frontage to 400 west. It is "frontage efficient". It has lots of glass. It isn't a wall.

The underlying, and it is literally underlying, problem with the gateway is the parking garage. I fear that event parking will keep the basic design of the mall in place for far longer than it could reasonably continue otherwise.
     
     
  #5192  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2016, 5:59 PM
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  #5193  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2016, 6:28 PM
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Good. I want this thing built, especially in place of that empty lot with a chainlink fence. However, our city is given one opportunity here to tell developers to stop building cheaply designed and shitty looking complexes. If we can't get it right on South Temple we won't get it right anywhere else in the city. Hopefully the developers come back with something reasonable this time, I'd hate for them to be turned down enough times to not construct something here.
     
     
  #5194  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2016, 8:39 PM
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I think the difficulty with this project, is that the desired setbacks probably cause the building to reduce the # of units significantly, and therefore more difficult for it to pencil out.
     
     
  #5195  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2016, 8:41 PM
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Regent Hotel & Void Center

Any updates on these two? I asked about a week or two ago, and got no reply. I hope the Regent Hotel is a for sure thing.
     
     
  #5196  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2016, 9:04 PM
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I think part of the viability of the Gateway is due to Its isolation from the rest of downtown. There is quite of dearth of development between West Temple and the Gateway. This is slowly changing. Hopefully, with new commerce and residents in the former "No Man's Land" coming online, the Gateway's vibrancy will be resurrected.
     
     
  #5197  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2016, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
Any updates on these two? I asked about a week or two ago, and got no reply. I hope the Regent Hotel is a for sure thing.
Would you say it felt like you were screaming into... The Void? Lol
     
     
  #5198  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2016, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ThePusherMan View Post
Would you say it felt like you were screaming into... The Void? Lol
     
     
  #5199  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2016, 4:30 AM
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Liberty Uptown, the magnolia building, and the metropolitan:

Historic Northwest Pipeline Building Proposal Selection

Salt Lake City has selected Cowboy Partners/Form Development to redevelop the Historic Northwest Pipeline Building Site located at 315 East 200 South in Downtown Salt Lake City after a competitive, community-based selection process.

Cowboy Partners/Form Development’s proposal includes the historic renovation of the Northwest Pipeline building and the construction of two new structures that will result in 248 new residential units on the property, including 65 permanent supportive housing units, 28 affordable units for those earning 40%-60% of the area median income, and 155 market rate units. The proposal also includes 11,200 square feet of neighborhood commercial space and 1,210 square feet of rent-free space for a business that provides employment opportunities for chronically homeless individuals.

renderings in the link below:
http://www.slcdocs.com/hand/Northwest_Pipeline_Visuals.pdf


Also.....

a large assortment of cool aerial imagery of Downtown Salt Lake:
http://www.axiomimages.com/aerial-stock-footage/view/AX127_150
http://www.axiomimages.com/aerial-stock-footage/view/AX127_121
http://www.axiomimages.com/aerial-stock-footage/view/AX124_209


and finally.....

Downtown South Salt Lake City master plan: December 2015
http://www.southsaltlakecity.com/uploads/departments/ComDevelopment/Downtown_Master_Plan_120215.pdf
     
     
  #5200  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2016, 5:29 AM
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Wow, the Northwest Pipeline redevelopment is much bigger than I expected. Looks good. I like it.
And the grand plan for South SL would be very good if they can see it through.
     
     
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