The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

^Pretty much.

A lot of people forget what UPX is intended to be. It's not public transit intended for suburban families to take their kids to the airport. It's intended to be a premium transportation service to appeal to business travellers. Both the prices and service quality on board (trains have little TVs and stuff on each seat for customers to enjoy, they serve coffee, that kind of thing) reflect this.

UPX is running below ridership projections. If that doesn't improve over time Metrolinx may very well choose to scale it back a bit by both lowering fares and doing away with some of the on board amenities.

I bet dropping it down to about $15 would drastically increase ridership. Then, for 2 adults, it is cheaper than $40 cab fare.

[Innsertnamehere]

^Its $19 currently.. I don't see a $4 drop doing that much..

cabs from downtown are in the $50 range, too.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I bet dropping it down to about $15 would drastically increase ridership. Then, for 2 adults, it is cheaper than $40 cab fare.

From where in Toronto is it a $40 cab fare?? Unless you live right off the 427 it's much higher. Here's the fare map: http://www.torontopearson.com/uploadedFi...here/Ground_Transport/Taxi_East_2010.pdf

Travelling to Union (apples to apples comparison) is $53 before fuel surcharge AND tip. So $60 minimum, and that's if you are a cheapskate. One thing I've noticed with UPX is that people tend to over inflate it's ticket price (completely ignoring Presto) and deflate the price of a cab.

[MalcolmTucker]

And even at $0 you'll rarely if ever convert friends and family drop off/pick up.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

And even at $0 you'll rarely if ever convert friends and family drop off/pick up.

Gosh, I don't know about that... I know that if the Ottawa Airport spur goes through, it wouldn't even be a question in my mind - I'd take it as close as possible to home before getting picked up. Driving around and around at the airport or dealing with the roads there and back definitely ranks lower than hopping on a train and having a shorter car/taxi ride.

[yaletown_fella]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I wish they'd keep one station between STC and Kennedy, but I'm just happy to see the extension.

I would also like to see the Sheppard Subway extended both east and west. But I'm not holding my breath.

A subway out to Markham Road would be great. The area is so congested.

[yaletown_fella]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Eglinton is congested as hell, and it helps relieve some of the pressure from the Yonge line. Agreed that it's lower density than downtown but what we really need is expanded rapid transit coverage to make commuting in the city region less car oriented. That being said, I really hope there's no heavy rail subway in Scarborough, LRT would do the trick, a subway line going West from Yonge-Queen to the future Smarttrack station on Queen would make more sense.

Subway makes no sense but LRT sitting in traffic is useless. I really hope the RT replacement dosent happen, it's a huge waste of money.
Scarborough would benefit a lot from an aboveground RT extension through the industrial/parkland north of Ellesmere. Just having new RT stations at Bellamy and Markham Road would do wonders to ease congestion in the area.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

Subway makes no sense but LRT sitting in traffic is useless. I really hope the RT replacement dosent happen, it's a huge waste of money.
Scarborough would benefit a lot from an aboveground RT extension through the industrial/parkland north of Ellesmere. Just having new RT stations at Bellamy and Markham Road would do wonders to ease congestion in the area.

Modern LRT projects, as the new proposals on Eglinton, Finch, and Kingston Rd are, are not like the downtown streetcars, they don't sit in traffic. They have their own right of way in the middle of the road isolated from other traffic and traffic lights are programmed to give LRT trains priority for green lights. You can pretty reliably have LRT trains get green lights 90%+ of the time with this technology.

[yaletown_fella]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Modern LRT projects, as the new proposals on Eglinton, Finch, and Kingston Rd are, are not like the downtown streetcars, they don't sit in traffic. They have their own right of way in the middle of the road isolated from other traffic and traffic lights are programmed to give LRT trains priority for green lights. You can pretty reliably have LRT trains get green lights 90%+ of the time with this technology.

The problem is dedicated LRT lanes will still be effected by road construction. It seems there's some utilities or road maintenance related construction several times a year on every given arterial in Toronto. Not to mention, road accidents.

The scarborough RT travels at 80km/hr. Im pretty sure the LRTs have to obey speed limits and travel at 60km/hour (average 50km/hour on a good day). So overall, it will be minimum 35% slower than an aboveground RT.

Not building an extensive Vancouver style automated RT system will go down as one of the biggest mistakes in Toronto's history.

[gunnar777]

Do any insiders have an exact date on when the AZUR metro trains will go into service in Montréal? I hope there aren't any new problems.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

Do any insiders have an exact date on when the AZUR metro trains will go into service in Montréal? I hope there aren't any new problems.

First week of February apparently. We'll post pictures here as soon at it goes into service!

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

First week of February apparently. We'll post pictures here as soon at it goes into service!

Awesome news Thanks!

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

The problem is dedicated LRT lanes will still be effected by road construction. It seems there's some utilities or road maintenance related construction several times a year on every given arterial in Toronto. Not to mention, road accidents.

The scarborough RT travels at 80km/hr. Im pretty sure the LRTs have to obey speed limits and travel at 60km/hour (average 50km/hour on a good day). So overall, it will be minimum 35% slower than an aboveground RT.

Not building an extensive Vancouver style automated RT system will go down as one of the biggest mistakes in Toronto's history.

You are restricted by the corridors available. Vancouver built on a lot of old railway right of ways. This allowed costs to be contained. The most expensive thing to do is to build subways and you need a lot of traffic to justify that. Isn't the Eglinton Crosstown as presently designed the most expensive transit line built in Toronto history? This kind of cost really limits what the tax base can afford. So you look for compromises whether using reserved lanes or making better use of existing railway corridors, which is better than accomplishing nothing.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You are restricted by the corridors available. Vancouver built on a lot of old railway right of ways. This allowed costs to be contained. The most expensive thing to do is to build subways and you need a lot of traffic to justify that. Isn't the Eglinton Crosstown as presently designed the most expensive transit line built in Toronto history? This kind of cost really limits what the tax base can afford. So you look for compromises whether using reserved lanes or making better use of existing railway corridors, which is better than accomplishing nothing.

Toronto is making use of railway corridors with the GO RER plan but there's still a need for more. The railway corridors work well for regional transit but not for local transit. That's where the LRT projects come in.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Toronto is making use of railway corridors with the GO RER plan but there's still a need for more. The railway corridors work well for regional transit but not for local transit. That's where the LRT projects come in.

Exactly as I mentioned (use of reserved lanes).

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

The problem is dedicated LRT lanes will still be effected by road construction. It seems there's some utilities or road maintenance related construction several times a year on every given arterial in Toronto. Not to mention, road accidents.

The scarborough RT travels at 80km/hr. Im pretty sure the LRTs have to obey speed limits and travel at 60km/hour (average 50km/hour on a good day). So overall, it will be minimum 35% slower than an aboveground RT.

Not building an extensive Vancouver style automated RT system will go down as one of the biggest mistakes in Toronto's history.

The recent LRT project in Edmonton has become the poster child for a failed LRT project. Instead of bringing the best of two worlds together, it has brought the worst (slower than a bus, less flexibility, increased traffic congestion, and and still cost over 600 million dollars).

There are some projects that do fit at grade LRTs, but far far far to many rapid transit projects in NA recently have been built as at grade LRTs.

Like many other urban fads, I feel this one too will be reflected upon poorly in the future.

I can understand why Edmonton and Calgary used this technology for their initial lines (population was well under 1 million people) and Edmonton actually did a great job of it (underground downtown) but once cities are in the millions using a variety of grade separated metros (RT or LRT), commuter rails, and BRTs is far superior than just using LRT for everything.

Just my opinion, but i wish Canadian cities were going towards more grade separation for urban rail rather than less....

Happy the LRT bug has not bitten Vancouver....so far (watching you Surrey).

[caltrane74]

Well the Toronto LRT is really meant to connect communities to the electrified heavy rail - Smarttrack, which is faster than any transit mode really, or take you to traditional underground subway. So you jump on the LRT in your area takes you to the intergrated Smarttrack Station and then swoosh, you make your long distance city trip in lightening speed, or take the subway at regular transit speed. All at the same price.

[SkahHigh]

Regarding the AZUR trains, STM employees have started removing the door location stickers on Orange line platforms, since the placement of the doors is different on the new trains.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I can understand why Edmonton and Calgary used this technology for their initial lines (population was well under 1 million people) and Edmonton actually did a great job of it (underground downtown) but once cities are in the millions using a variety of grade separated metros (RT or LRT), commuter rails, and BRTs is far superior than just using LRT for everything.

LRT works well for the Eglinton and Finch corridors in Toronto. Both have ridership too high for BRT (especially considering the high operating costs of BRT relative to LRT) and would cost far too much money to build metros under.

[Metro-One]

Why not an elevated metro line?