Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[SOSS]

I know strollers can be a bit big. I wonder how many people complaining are parents of young children or toddlers?

[MIPS]

Wheelchairs have been allowed on the SkyTrain since forever. Even the MK I's have a designated space for them. I can also tell you first hand that those spaces are wide enough that someone in an office chair can park there and hold on for their life.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Wheelchairs have been allowed on the SkyTrain since forever. Even the MK I's have a designated space for them. I can also tell you first hand that those spaces are wide enough that someone in an office chair can park there and hold on for their life.

A conventional wheel chair is 30" by 48" and weighs 35lbs.

Wheelchair Measurement Standards

width: 30" / 760 mm
height: 30" / 760 mm
depth: 48" / 1220 mm

A foldable mobility scooter is 17.5" x 40" (yes smaller than a conventional wheelchair)

But the ones you see people actually using are 25" x 53" and weigh 280lbs.

In the UK there is a document about which trains (including London Overground) can take them. Most are 1200mm (47") x Width 700mm (27.5"), which the large one above is 6" too large for, and even the "standard" wheelchair above is too large, unfolded.

Translink here also has dimensions for buses:
48"x24"

Stroller sizes are also stated (elsewhere):

For safety reasons, the maximum size for a stroller is 122 centimetres (48”) long by 60 centimetres (24”) wide. Strollers must be collapsible.

Now go look at the size of some monster strollers
26"x36", 25"x43",26"x36",27x38 and so forth. None of these "fit" on a bus.
vs more typical strollers
22x34", 21x33", 21x31" , unfolded.

What's the thing in common between the mobility aids and the strollers? The monster sized ones don't typically fold or collapse and are all actually too large for the bus.

Since these things have to be near the doors on the Skytrain, the only thing preventing oversized mobility aids or strollers on the Skytrain is not being able to fit through a (presumably 30") wheelchair gate.

Bikes though, the Bus has the racks, so they're exempt from those sizes. The Skytrain however has to put the bikes in the same places the wheelchairs and strollers go. This what people need in Vancouver for transit oriented bikes: http://www.ridehelix.ca/ , they collapse into a 21.5" x 10.5" x 27" space. Too bad they cost nearly 2000$.

[WarrenC12]

Maybe we should be banning fat people who take up more than one seat too. /s


People, this is public transit. It should be available to anyone. I don't have any friends in wheelchairs or mobility scooters, but I'm very happy that Translink has made sure the system is 100% accessible for people that need them. The world doesn't revolve around 20-something single guys.

I'm sure there are very few parents on here, but umbrella strollers are a joke. Besides, parents and young children aren't riding at rush hours anyway.

I feel it's very important that the system accommodates everybody. Many of these people mentioned wouldn't have cars, so this is their only real source of getting around.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Maybe we should be banning fat people who take up more than one seat too. /s


People, this is public transit. It should be available to anyone. I don't have any friends in wheelchairs or mobility scooters, but I'm very happy that Translink has made sure the system is 100% accessible for people that need them. The world doesn't revolve around 20-something single guys.

I'm sure there are very few parents on here, but umbrella strollers are a joke. Besides, parents and young children aren't riding at rush hours anyway.

I feel it's very important that the system accommodates everybody. Many of these people mentioned wouldn't have cars, so this is their only real source of getting around.

Uhm you don't take transit very often then. I've long since lost count of the number of SUV sized scooters and strollers that have pushed onto the Skytrain during rush hour (and if everyone doesn't go out of their way to give them room, these people tend to get cranky).

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Uhm you don't take transit very often then. I've long since lost count of the number of SUV sized scooters and strollers that have pushed onto the Skytrain during rush hour (and if everyone doesn't go out of their way to give them room, these people tend to get cranky).

Uhm, I take transit on a regular basis, both at rush hour and other times. But thanks.

[SOSS]

Transit is for EVERYONE. Wow, someone gets on-board with a large stroller with a kid or two and people complain about how inconvenient it is for all the other passengers... That's akin to that viral video that went around where some guy was uncomfortable because someone was breastfeeding. Get over yourself. If you feel inconvenienced/uncomfortable you have every right to get off and wait for the next train.

[AverageJoe]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Transit is for EVERYONE. Wow, someone gets on-board with a large stroller with a kid or two and people complain about how inconvenient it is for all the other passengers... That's akin to that viral video that went around where some guy was uncomfortable because someone was breastfeeding. Get over yourself. If you feel inconvenienced/uncomfortable you have every right to get off and wait for the next train.

There's been numerous times where I see a mother with a monster stroller get on the bus and EVERYONE in front must get out of the way, including the half-dozen senior citizens in the priority seats. Twice I saw very selfish mothers who spewed hate and racist taunts on the seniors who were too slow to get out of the way. One baby does not need a shopping cart sized stroller. Transit is for everyone.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by AverageJoe

There's been numerous times where I see a mother with a monster stroller get on the bus and EVERYONE in front must get out of the way, including the half-dozen senior citizens in the priority seats. Twice I saw very selfish mothers who spewed hate and racist taunts on the seniors who were too slow to get out of the way. One baby does not need a shopping cart sized stroller. Transit is for everyone.

Ok, so now we're down to anecdotes.

I've seen assholes of all races/ages/etc. on transit. The end.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Ok, so now we're down to anecdotes.

I've seen assholes of all races/ages/etc. on transit. The end.

Agreed.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Ok, so now we're down to anecdotes.

I've seen assholes of all races/ages/etc. on transit. The end.

To me the issue is spot on and we need to address the fact that ginormous strollers are becoming overly common on buses and leaving people out in the cold. It's a very common issue in Surrey, people with disabilities are being passed up because the accessible portions of the bus are being hogged by giant strollers . Someone who has MS even wrote an article in the Leader about this last year...

As a friend of a single mother, I do feel empathy for those who have to rely on a stroller to get around. It's an absolute pain in the ass, especially if you are trying to multitask. Still, there is no reason to use a doubles-stroller or exercise stroller (pic below) if you have a lone child who is older than 16 months.



There are a wide array of collapsible strollers out there. My friend has a very comfortable collapsible stroller and she ensures that she makes room if any disabled person needs to have a seat.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

To me the issue is spot on and we need to address the fact that ginormous strollers are becoming overly common on buses and leaving people out in the cold. It's a very common issue in Surrey, people with disabilities are being passed up because the accessible portions of the bus are being hogged by giant strollers . Someone who has MS even wrote an article in the Leader about this last year...

As someone who used to cart around his daughter in one of those monster strollers on the bus (ours was, honest to god, the Sport Utility Stroller), we were always under the impression that if someone actually needed that spot (i.e. they were in a wheelchair or needed to sit there and couldn't sit anywhere else) we'd be the first ones off the bus. I'm pretty sure we were told that by more than one driver.

And honestly I didn't really like taking it on the bus anyhow. Such a hassle lugging that thing around. I'm so glad we don't have to do that any more.

[nname]

I still think there should be a limit to the size of the wheelchair or stroller. I have seen people with mobility aid device that are so large that it barely squeeze through the turn at the driver's area require people to clear out the entire front side of the bus for it to turn - those should not be on the bus.

Transit is for everyone - that includes wheelchairs, strollers, and everyone else. And it should be first come first serve. Wheelchairs and strollers have reserved spot on bus and train, and be the first to get on at a stop for convenience, and that's it. There should not be any more priority than other people who are using the same service. If whatever you have does not fit on the bus, wait for the next one, or consider getting a smaller one so it fits. People do not HAVE to move out of the way and/or get off the bus/train for you (although most do, but it is NOT a privilege).

One time I was on the 97 and there was 2 strollers (1 folded), 1 wheelchair, and about 12-15 seniors that occupied the entire front area of the bus before the stairs. The bus is fully seated with about 10 standees. At one stop, the small wheelchair got off and someone with a HUGE mobility aid device trying to get on. And of course it is very hard to get in because of the size. When she realized her device need more space, she demand the stroller, 5 seniors, and everyone standing at front to get off the bus so she can turn. The seniors claimed the space is first-come-first-serve and none wanted to move, but the woman claimed she have higher priority than seniors and strollers. They started to argue and the driver tell the woman to wait for the next bus. And then the woman start yelling discrimination, threaten to file a complaint against the driver, and unwilling to move out of the ramp. This lasted for 10 minutes despite almost everyone on the bus told her to get off (which made her more mad) until the next bus come.

So in this situation, should the senior and the stroller move away (and off the bus) to make space for her turn? Did the driver did the right thing to tell her to wait for the next bus?

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by nname

I still think there should be a limit to the size of the wheelchair or stroller. I have seen people with mobility aid device that are so large that it barely squeeze through the turn at the driver's area require people to clear out the entire front side of the bus for it to turn - those should not be on the bus.

Transit is for everyone - that includes wheelchairs, strollers, and everyone else. And it should be first come first serve. Wheelchairs and strollers have reserved spot on bus and train, and be the first to get on at a stop for convenience, and that's it. There should not be any more priority than other people who are using the same service. If whatever you have does not fit on the bus, wait for the next one, or consider getting a smaller one so it fits. People do not HAVE to move out of the way and/or get off the bus/train for you (although most do, but it is NOT a privilege).

One time I was on the 97 and there was 2 strollers (1 folded), 1 wheelchair, and about 12-15 seniors that occupied the entire front area of the bus before the stairs. The bus is fully seated with about 10 standees. At one stop, the small wheelchair got off and someone with a HUGE mobility aid device trying to get on. And of course it is very hard to get in because of the size. When she realized her device need more space, she demand the stroller, 5 seniors, and everyone standing at front to get off the bus so she can turn. The seniors claimed the space is first-come-first-serve and none wanted to move, but the woman claimed she have higher priority than seniors and strollers. They started to argue and the driver tell the woman to wait for the next bus. And then the woman start yelling discrimination, threaten to file a complaint against the driver, and unwilling to move out of the ramp. This lasted for 10 minutes despite almost everyone on the bus told her to get off (which made her more mad) until the next bus come.

So in this situation, should the senior and the stroller move away (and off the bus) to make space for her turn? Did the driver did the right thing to tell her to wait for the next bus?

It's a good thing that TransLink has policy for these sorts of things. For this case, it says that the seniors and the scooter were at the same level of priority (one doesn't take precedence over the other) and that the seniors are pretty much right: first-come-first-serve. The stroller should have been collapsed and removed; it's at lower priority than the seniors and scooter. If the seniors were able-bodied they probably could have moved.

That said, it sounds like this was one of those situations where people were trying to out-asshole each other.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

To me the issue is spot on and we need to address the fact that ginormous strollers are becoming overly common on buses and leaving people out in the cold. It's a very common issue in Surrey, people with disabilities are being passed up because the accessible portions of the bus are being hogged by giant strollers . Someone who has MS even wrote an article in the Leader about this last year...

This partly sums up what I think a few people here are missing. There are less issues with bikes due to the way they're on the front of the bus and not allowed on the Skytrain during rush hour. I don't think I've ever had issues with someone in a wheelchair. The problem is with scooters and strollers - when they don't follow the rules and / or have a 'I'm more equal than you' entitlement attitude. If they made an effort to follow the rules and dialed back the attitude we wouldn't be having the discussion.

[BCPhil]

Simple solution: charge people for the extra space they take up.

Of course people who are disabled in standard sized wheelchairs don't pay (and honestly, most wheel chairs I see on transit don't take up more space than the person sitting in it).

But if you want to bring on a bike or a stroller that takes up more space than 1 person, then you should pay an add fare, especially during peak periods. The CVMs should sell a $3 bike ticket and a $1.50 stroller fare.

(I charge more for the bike because at least someone is using the stroller, the toddler, while no one is using the bike and you really don't NEED a bike on transit).

I don't really see why the taxpayer should subsidize people bringing bikes on Skytrain. Use your bike or don't. If you want to bring it on joy ride on Transit, pay for it.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Simple solution: charge people for the extra space they take up.

Of course people who are disabled in standard sized wheelchairs don't pay (and honestly, most wheel chairs I see on transit don't take up more space than the person sitting in it).

But if you want to bring on a bike or a stroller that takes up more space than 1 person, then you should pay an add fare, especially during peak periods. The CVMs should sell a $3 bike ticket and a $1.50 stroller fare.

(I charge more for the bike because at least someone is using the stroller, the toddler, while no one is using the bike and you really don't NEED a bike on transit).

I don't really see why the taxpayer should subsidize people bringing bikes on Skytrain. Use your bike or don't. If you want to bring it on joy ride on Transit, pay for it.

Taxpayer subsidizing people bringing bikes on Skytrain? It costs nothing for a person to bring something on board.

It may be annoying to some, but multi-modality is a very conscious decision, and forcing people to pay more for this would hinder it. Bikes on Skytrain provides non-drivers with a much greater level of mobility, and they shouldn't be forced to pay for it.

[Metro-One]

Bikes take up a lot of room, and unlike wheel chairs and reasonable sized baby strollers one does not need to have their bike with them and often is doing so just for fun.

(As I stated before, many other cultures are able to ride their bikes to a station and leave them there).

Therefore I think a surcharge for bringing on a bike is a good idea.

At the very least, tickets should be given to those who do not clean their bike before bringing it on the train. (such as mountain bikers who I have seen coming on with very muddy bikes, not cool).

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Bikes take up a lot of room, and unlike wheel chairs and reasonable sized baby strollers one does not need to have their bike with them and often is doing so just for fun.

(As I stated before, many other cultures are able to ride their bikes to a station and leave them there).

Therefore I think a surcharge for bringing on a bike is a good idea.

At the very least, tickets should be given to those who do not clean their bike before bringing it on the train. (such as mountain bikers who I have seen coming on with very muddy bikes, not cool).

"Bikes are just for fun" is the same argument that drivers make when they're mad about having to share a road with them. If you need to access somewhere with poor transit service that's too far to bike the entire way, you shouldn't be forced to just drive.

And I'm sorry, but that example in Japan of having a bike for each station you use is ridiculous. We just need better storage solutions for them on trains. Portland and Seattle's LRTs have hooks for example, so they only take up the space of one standing person. Our Mark trains just weren't designed with them in mind.

Speaking of which, does anybody know anything about that in regards to the Mark IIIs?

[Sheba]

From Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | u/c

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

MARK III shots from Koncept61 on r/vancouver

http://imgur.com/a/uVS9g