[Halifax] Gorsebrook Park (1048 Wellington) | 30 m | 10 fl | Completed

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Excellent post. Hope you come back to respond to the inevitable sniping from the Big Orange loyalists though.

I agree that it was an excellent post. It was full of actual information, and a good proportion of that information was even backed up by reliable sources, which he provided! With links! He engaged the conversation, added to it, and then I was able to engage it (edit: and others will also be able to engage it) and thus the conversation actually progressed and I (and hopefully others) get to leave a bit more knowledgeable than before.

On the other hand, our past few exchanges have seen you simply refuse to engage any of my questions, dismissing them as not worth answering, and then launching weird, McCarthyesque accusations about political beliefs or affiliations that you mistakenly think I hold. It's really unproductive, putting the brakes on the conversation instead of moving it forward. And frankly I find it pretty disrepectful.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

I also think our Prov/City bureaucracies are broken...

Agreed. I'm not sure what's inherently wrong with the provincial government (I'm more familiar with the municipal one, and its problems) but I've come to the sad realization that I can't remember the province ever having a government that impressed me, or even just seemed to "get things right most of the time", in my entire life. I don't know if this is the case in other provinces (I get the impression that outside of maybe Quebec, NL and Alberta, most Canadians have also been pretty disillusioned about their own provincial governments as long as I can remember).

I would say though, that the current Liberal government is not just bad, but actually crazy. Logic seems to escape them at almost every turn. Maybe I'm missing something. But say what you will about the Dexter, or MacDonald, or Hamm, or Buchanan governments; I'm sure their decisions at least resonated with someone. I'm sure there are strutural problems with the government as well, but more than that there just seem to be a lot of bad ideas and no good ones right now. This is one case where I am actually quite comfortable saying that.

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Unfortunately, the wait lists for public housing are huge, because very little new public housing has been created here since the 70s (so currently a lot of people need to be housed in very-low-rent market housing). Prior to the formation of Housing NS, there were no provincial-level programs in place to deal with this kind of thing, so the impression that I got (without having seen any of the "gimmick for the NDP" type news reports) was that prior to Housing NS there simply wasn't a provincial department/agency with the mandate to really do this sort of thing. Again, I could be totally wrong about that.

Long story short, I am glad that Housing NS exists, and I know very little of its backstory but support (generally) its programs. The connection with Bloomfield is again something that I can't really say I understand very well at this point. Almost everything I know about the Bloomfield project I have learned in this thread (ie. 1034-1056 Wellington Street)

What existed before Housing Nova Scotia was two things (OK, that's an oversimplification, but for the sake of K.I.S.S.) - Housing Authorities, which were essentially landlords (some of which used to be attached to municipalities), and the Housing Division of the Department of Community Services, which provided clients with subsidies to live in Housing Authority or other landlords' buildings, amongst other housing programs (such as home repairs, adaptations, etc.)

My understanding is that Housing Nova Scotia was created to bring this all together under one organization (and it has, more or less) - which makes perfect sense to me, but then I try to be very non-partisan and not worry about which political party made a change and just judge the change on its own merits.

In the end, I don't think it's changed any programming much, but it's consolidated the administration.

As to whether it can or will create NEW public housing, beyond a few small incentives for private developers, it largely depends on federal Affordable Housing Agreements funding.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by portapetey

My understanding is that Housing Nova Scotia was created to bring this all together under one organization (and it has, more or less) - which makes perfect sense to me, but then I try to be very non-partisan and not worry about which political party made a change and just judge the change on its own merits.

That was largely my impression/attitude as well.

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I would say though, that the current Liberal government is not just bad, but actually crazy. Logic seems to escape them at almost every turn. Maybe I'm missing something. But say what you will about the Dexter, or MacDonald, or Hamm, or Buchanan governments; I'm sure their decisions at least resonated with someone. I'm sure there are strutural problems with the government as well, but more than that there just seem to be a lot of bad ideas and no good ones right now. This is one case where I am actually quite comfortable saying that.

Have to agree that this Liberal government is monstrously bad. Harper-conservative level bad.

The NDP didn't do anything really terrible, but they were horrifically dishonest. Their propaganda machine was relentless and sickening. The lies were beyond anything I've seen from any government in Canada (except, again, the Harper government).

I hate myself for saying this as I've never voted Tory and and I found Rodney to be a massive embarrassment, but the MacDonald government actually did good things for Nova Scotia, particularly in the area of health care (I know no one is happy with health care, but you'd be a lot unhappier if they hadn't made all the investments they had). One of the Dexter government's great lies was taking credit for much of what the MacDonald government created.

Over the years I've started to feel that conservative governments are pretty good at the provincial level, but terrible at the federal level. It's interesting, because in my gut, I'd never vote for them at either. But in the next provincial election I'll keep an open mind.

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by Hali87

On the other hand, our past few exchanges have seen you simply refuse to engage any of my questions, dismissing them as not worth answering, and then launching weird, McCarthyesque accusations about political beliefs or affiliations that you mistakenly think I hold. It's really unproductive, putting the brakes on the conversation instead of moving it forward. And frankly I find it pretty disrepectful.

♪♩ P***********ss in the wind, ♬♭
♪♫ all we are is p*******ss in the wiiiiiiiiiiind ♪♩

You'll get nowhere. Don't waste your time.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I've come to the sad realization that I can't remember the province ever having a government that impressed me, or even just seemed to "get things right most of the time", in my entire life. I don't know if this is the case in other provinces (I get the impression that outside of maybe Quebec, NL and Alberta, most Canadians have also been pretty disillusioned about their own provincial governments as long as I can remember).

I would say though, that the current Liberal government is not just bad, but actually crazy. Logic seems to escape them at almost every turn.

As a generally leftish type, I was never fond of Alberta's governments when I lived there, least of all the cowboy gong show that characterized the Ralph Klein years.

In Ontario, the McGuinty Liberals were pretty terrible and widely loathed, but I think the McNeil crew is even worse. I don't know if I can point to one significant positive thing they've accomplished.

The problem is, people are so turned off by the NDP that an orange victory is probably impossible by next election. And Baillie et. al. don't seem so sharp themselves. I'm actually sort of hoping McNeil just goes completely, comedically, outrageously to hell, is forced to step down, and the Liberals can pull off something like the McGuinty-Wynne trade Ontario got.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

As a generally leftish type, I was never fond of Alberta's governments when I lived there, least of all the cowboy gong show that characterized the Ralph Klein years.

In Ontario, the McGuinty Liberals were pretty terrible and widely loathed, but I think the McNeil crew is even worse though. I don't know if I can point to one significant positive thing they've accomplished.

I get the impression Rae wasn't too popular either.

[portapetey]

[QUOTE=Drybrain;7294151]

The problem is, people are so turned off by the NDP that an orange victory is probably impossible by next election. /QUOTE]

I'm on Lenore Zann's mailing list, and her recent missives are little more than lengthy attack ads. Mind you, the current Liberal government is an easy thing to attack. But nothing she is saying in her leadership bid has any substance whatsoever, except to demonize her opponents. No indication whatsoever of what she would do differently. The NDP doesn't appear to have anything to offer at this time, unfortunately.

[Drybrain]

[QUOTE=portapetey;7294164]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

The problem is, people are so turned off by the NDP that an orange victory is probably impossible by next election. /QUOTE]

I'm on Lenore Zann's mailing list, and her recent missives are little more than lengthy attack ads. Mind you, the current Liberal government is an easy thing to attack. But nothing she is saying in her leadership bid has any substance whatsoever, except to demonize her opponents. No indication whatsoever of what she would do differently. The NDP doesn't appear to have anything to offer at this time, unfortunately.

I've almost always voted NDP, but I've found a lot of people affiliated with the party to be among the most zealously partisan of any party. There is an assumption among a lot of the party faithful, especially younger, that their guys are virtually beyond criticism, and everyone else is not merely wrong but borderline nefarious.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by portapetey

Have to agree that this Liberal government is monstrously bad. Harper-conservative level bad.

The NDP didn't do anything really terrible, but they were horrifically dishonest. Their propaganda machine was relentless and sickening. The lies were beyond anything I've seen from any government in Canada (except, again, the Harper government).

I hate myself for saying this as I've never voted Tory and and I found Rodney to be a massive embarrassment, but the MacDonald government actually did good things for Nova Scotia, particularly in the area of health care (I know no one is happy with health care, but you'd be a lot unhappier if they hadn't made all the investments they had). One of the Dexter government's great lies was taking credit for much of what the MacDonald government created.

Over the years I've started to feel that conservative governments are pretty good at the provincial level, but terrible at the federal level. It's interesting, because in my gut, I'd never vote for them at either. But in the next provincial election I'll keep an open mind.

The problem with any of them in NS is that they all have a bunch of clowns either elected or working for them in the back rooms. There just isn't any depth, no deep thinkers. Policies and initiatives are driven by either ideology or the need to reward supporters, not what is good for the province. While there is a general continuum of good to bad where conservative govts are generally better stewards than socialist govts, here in NS that tends not to apply so much. The current crop of provincial Conservatives are hopelessly bad mostly due to their leader Baillie, who combines many of the worst aspects of all parties into one little man. The current Liberals are doing what needs to be done to try to limit the power of public sector unions, but are doing it in a very ham-handed way. And while cutting spending is vital, they are still spending money on all sorts of useless things and doing little to reduce the size and intrusion of govt. The reason you see the good things the MacDonald govt did for healthcare was because they realized that it was one of the true core responsibilities of govt and put a lot of money into it. Now, they were one of the more inept govts in memory and wasted a lot of the offshore royalty money by pissing it away on useless things but at least had enough sense to realize that govt needs to take care of their core functions first.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I agree that it was an excellent post. It was full of actual information, and a good proportion of that information was even backed up by reliable sources, which he provided! With links! He engaged the conversation, added to it, and then I was able to engage it (edit: and others will also be able to engage it) and thus the conversation actually progressed and I (and hopefully others) get to leave a bit more knowledgeable than before.

On the other hand, our past few exchanges have seen you simply refuse to engage any of my questions, dismissing them as not worth answering, and then launching weird, McCarthyesque accusations about political beliefs or affiliations that you mistakenly think I hold. It's really unproductive, putting the brakes on the conversation instead of moving it forward. And frankly I find it pretty disrepectful.

I am not your research dept. If you wish to confirm my conclusions the info is out there for you to ferret out. It has been my experience that the left does not take criticism well and asks for "evidence!" from those who disagree with them. You were the one who stated that Housing NS was not a political creature of the NDP before later admitting you had no clue one way or the other. If one wants respect then I suggest you do not make such asinine statements.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I am not your research dept. If you wish to confirm my conclusions the info is out there for you to ferret out. It has been my experience that the left does not take criticism well and asks for "evidence!" from those who disagree with them. You were the one who stated that Housing NS was not a political creature of the NDP before later admitting you had no clue one way or the other. If one wants respect then I suggest you do not make such asinine statements.

I don't remember saying "it's not a political creature of the NDP", I asked for the source as to your claims that it was, because I was unaware of that, because as I mentioned, I'd been living in the woods with no internet when all of those press releases came out. Thanks to Counterfactual for providing some sources.

Edit: I said "NDP provincial government" and "Housing NS" are not the same thing; and they're not. Housing NS still exists.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I am not your research dept. If you wish to confirm my conclusions the info is out there for you to ferret out.

This is not my argument to get involved in, but your statement is ludicrous.

[ILoveHalifax]

Not my argument either, BUT,

RIGHT ON KEITH

Our good buddy should keep his mouth shut until he goes back to read some of the thread before he makes a statement that makes no sense. Sometimes the info is only back a few posts.

Exactly why I asked if he cheated

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

Exactly why I asked if he cheated

[beyeas]

When the facts are in your favour, pound on the facts.
When the facts aren't in your favour, pound on the table.

[portapetey]

nm

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

This is not my argument to get involved in, but your statement is ludicrous.

That's ridiculous. This is message board, not a doctoral panel.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That's ridiculous. This is message board, not a doctoral panel.

Just so I fully understand... when offering criticism, "one" does not need to offer any evidence for an argument, the opinion should go unquestioned because to do otherwise would be to cater to the lefties?