Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 4

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Wasatch Wasteland

I know this may restart a fire that was previously put out a few days ago, but I was thinking…

That block has hundreds of beautiful, healthy, well established Sycamores. Instead of ripping everything out and throwing in some kind of development, why not just rip out the concrete, leave everything else, and redesign it into some kind of modern park/outdoor venue/public garden/pond or whatever. I know we already have plenty of green space, but is any of that plenty close to the actual downtown? I mean, this would be an ACTUAL downtown park. Not one filled with homeless a mile to the west and not one two damn miles away to the southeast!

I was the dude arguing in favor of open space on Washington square and I would very much be against turning that block into a park.

Best case scenario imo would be 2 roads with wide sidewalks bisecting the block, 20 story condo towers on Main and office towers on West temple. It would be uber cool if the E/W road(450 S) aligned with the winter setting sun. That way you get sunshine when you need it and shade when you need it.

[ctobsl]

Originally Posted by RC14

That is another problem I have with openspace downtown. The homeless have to go somewhere and they will choose public property because it is more difficult to keep them away. It is easier to deal with this problem on private property such as the City Creek Center.
The idea of a civic space corridor is kind of cool but the orientation of the Matheson courthouse kind of kills it.

I like the idea of preserving old trees as opposed to ripping them out. Mature trees make new developments feel more established. Whatever happens to that block, it would be nice if they could be incorporated into the plan.

They will probably keep the trees that are on the perimeter of the block if it ever gets developed and of course remove the the trees that are in the interior part of the block. But I am sure they will be removed in a way that they can be replanted else where.

[Palladio]

Just because I can, here is a quick massing study of what that block might look like if fully built out, and subdivided into nine blocks. Also assuming that it follows roughly the density patterns we are seeing in the rest of downtown.

Personally, I think it would be such a missed opportunity if that block was not developed to its fullest. In my quick nine block rendering, I think it would be totally cool to have the center block as some sort of open space, but there definitely needs to be some intense development to take full advantage of the TRAX station.

[jedikermit]

If they kept even half of the block open as some sort of open/outdoor event space, that would still be a huge area to host events. Have condos/office space in some towers on Main Street, and a north/south street between them and the rest of the block. It would be a shame to not use that TRAX stop for something more than a park.

and RE: the homeless situation -- I was in Portland for a week in September, and did a lot of walking downtown. The touristy parts and the not so touristy parts. And encountered some of the most aggressive panhandlers/homeless that I've ever seen. Local friends there warned me against doing much walking, that I should take Uber or Lyft from place to place, because there had been some recent problems. At Pioneer Square (I think? Pioneer Courthouse?) in the center of town, there were a lot of people out of their offices having lunch, and there were two panhandlers that were awfully close to assaulting people. So...PDX doesn't not have a homeless problem themselves.

And that's considering that I'm at the Rio Grande a couple of times a month for meetings, so I'm a block away from our own homeless shelter. I'm not afraid of panhandlers or homeless people.

I think SLC's problem goes beyond panhandling and the chronic homeless (where progress has been made over the last few years), and it's that there are places like Pioneer Park, the Main Library, and a few other places (500 South on ramp?) that have essentially become permanent homeless camps. Opening another public space for that scenario (a green roof, a ten acre park) without some kind of plan to address those issues seems unwise...more than anything, just another unusable part of the city, pushing the target users away.

...and I'm still pissed that the rooftop gardens on the LDS Conference Center haven't ever really fulfilled their intended purpose as another set of city gardens. With closing hours and rules, but still. They weren't meant to be closed to the public except for on tours. Still pissed.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by jedikermit

If they kept even half of the block open as some sort of open/outdoor event space, that would still be a huge area to host events. Have condos/office space in some towers on Main Street, and a north/south street between them and the rest of the block. It would be a shame to not use that TRAX stop for something more than a park.

and RE: the homeless situation -- I was in Portland for a week in September, and did a lot of walking downtown. The touristy parts and the not so touristy parts. And encountered some of the most aggressive panhandlers/homeless that I've ever seen. Local friends there warned me against doing much walking, that I should take Uber or Lyft from place to place, because there had been some recent problems. At Pioneer Square (I think? Pioneer Courthouse?) in the center of town, there were a lot of people out of their offices having lunch, and there were two panhandlers that were awfully close to assaulting people. So...PDX doesn't not have a homeless problem themselves.

And that's considering that I'm at the Rio Grande a couple of times a month for meetings, so I'm a block away from our own homeless shelter. I'm not afraid of panhandlers or homeless people.

I think SLC's problem goes beyond panhandling and the chronic homeless (where progress has been made over the last few years), and it's that there are places like Pioneer Park, the Main Library, and a few other places (500 South on ramp?) that have essentially become permanent homeless camps. Opening another public space for that scenario (a green roof, a ten acre park) without some kind of plan to address those issues seems unwise...more than anything, just another unusable part of the city, pushing the target users away.

...and I'm still pissed that the rooftop gardens on the LDS Conference Center haven't ever really fulfilled their intended purpose as another set of city gardens. With closing hours and rules, but still. They weren't meant to be closed to the public except for on tours. Still pissed.

I'm not to happy about not being able to access the Conference Center roof also. I guess they are concerned about liability after that kid climbed over the railing and fell.

I am super annoyed at what has happened to the library. There has to be some balance and controls. You don't just build some expensive beautiful public building for homeless to camp in it! Why don't they create a low-budget internet cafe for them at or near the homeless center, and keep them out of the main library??

[Future Mayor]

I'm with Liberty Wellsian on this. I too argued all for keeping the Civic Center open space on Washington Square and the Library block but am I 100% against turning the block north of Little America into a huge park. As has been mentioned it's a huge wasn't of TOD potential.

While I like Palladio's massing of the block I do think an E/W road or pedestrian access should be around mid-block, that provides an inviting corridor for people crossing the street from the Trax Platform at mid-block. It could also preserve a huge number of trees that are currently along that center sidewalk. Maybe the block from north to south gets split three times, mid block pedestrian, and a narrow street on the north and the south, and maybe split twice east to west, as Palladio's massing shows. I do think a park could work in the middle of the block, and would be highly utilized due to the density surrounding it.

It looks nowhere as cool as the massing that Palladio did, but here's a stab at the layout. This actually splits it up into twelve smaller blocks.

Blue= Office
Red = Residential
Purple = mixed use
Orange = Hotel

Most of the office and residential would have some street level retail, as to make it more of a retail are. While one way streets are not a benefits to retail I think for one block it may be beneficial to make these for streets one ways, that allows for reduced street width while still providing at least one side of parking, or they could be two way with one side of parking, similar to the southern section of Regent St.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Palladio

Just because I can, here is a quick massing study of what that block might look like if fully built out, and subdivided into nine blocks. Also assuming that it follows roughly the density patterns we are seeing in the rest of downtown.

Personally, I think it would be such a missed opportunity if that block was not developed to its fullest. In my quick nine block rendering, I think it would be totally cool to have the center block as some sort of open space, but there definitely needs to be some intense development to take full advantage of the TRAX station.

Nice

I really enjoy the renderings that you do.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Developer for old public safety building chosen

http://fox13now.com/2015/12/23/developer-picked-for-old-slc-public-safety-building/

[Orlando]

Hey guys, just remember that there is an important view corridor to the City & County Building. By placing all those large masses of buildings, you've reduced it down to a small window. It's important that our most significant civic/institutional buildings (City/County Building & SLC Temple) are not blocked by other buildings, IMO. I believe the City may have zoning height restrictions there for that very purpose.

[Orlando]

Here's a link to the R/UDAT report:
http://www.aia.org/about/initiatives/AIAS075422

So, it looks like the plaza they proposed was between the City/County Building and the parking lot block, and the courthouse built in the 90's was supposed to go on the parking lot block.



This was a sketch of block 57, which is where the Gallivan Plaza is now. I believe they also proposed to put the new City Library on the corner of that block.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Hey guys, just remember that there is an important view corridor to the City & County Building. By placing all those large masses of buildings, you've reduced it down to a small window. It's important that our most significant civic/institutional buildings (City/County Building & SLC Temple) are not blocked by other buildings. I believe the City may have zoning height restrictions there for that very purpose.

There really isn't a substantial view corridor from the west is there? Maybe just the center/narrow portion of the City and County Building. I have actually never heard of a view corridor for the City and County building.

The parking lot in discussion is zoned D-1, so the city obviously doesn't have a view corridor in mind, except for maybe the mid-block areas 100' max, that could be seen directly from the west.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

There really isn't a substantial view corridor from the west is there? Maybe just the center/narrow portion of the City and County Building. I have actually never heard of a view corridor for the City and County building.

The parking lot in discussion is zoned D-1, so the city obviously doesn't have a view corridor in mind, except for maybe the mid-block areas 100' max, that could be seen directly from the west.

Ya, I guess I was incorrect in stating that like it is a fact. I thought there was something in place for the Temple and the City/County Building.
Btw, I just received word that the application for this lot has been submitted to the city. The design has not been finalized. Anybody care to dig it up?

[Future Mayor]

I guess that means it's less likely that City Creek Reserve won't be turning their attention to Cascade once 111 is done.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I guess that means it's less likely that City Creek Reserve won't be turning their attention to Cascade once 111 is done.

What do you mean by that? I thought CCR sold the lot to the City, and the City is now developing it.

[asies1981]

Cowboy Partners and Form Development have been selected to redevelop the northwest pipeline site (former public safety building). With the motorpool property across the street this block is poised to drastically change over the next few years.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by asies1981

Cowboy Partners and Form Development have been selected to redevelop the northwest pipeline site (former public safety building). With the motorpool property across the street this block is poised to drastically change over the next few years.

So help me god if they reclad it in stucco...

[asies1981]

Originally Posted by Comrade

So help me god if they reclad it in stucco...

I am glad that this project will have to go through the site design review process, where they'll get critiques on materials.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Orlando

What do you mean by that? I thought CCR sold the lot to the City, and the City is now developing it.

Unless a transaction has occurred in the past few months, that entire block is still owned by City Creek Reserve. I don't recall any news about the city buying it, and I'm not sure why the city would buy it, there aren't any buildings that they are currently looking or needing to build, and I don't really see the city getting into the entertainment business.

Did I miss a post about the city buying it?

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Comrade

So help me god if they reclad it in stucco...

Or name is Liberty anything!

My hope is that they will pay homage to Northwest Pipeline, in the naming of the apartments. But we'll probably still end up with something idiotic like Liberty Northwest, or Liberty Pipeline or my favorite Liberty North Liberty West Liberty Pipe Liberty Line building. I just can't see them going away from "Liberty"

[urban.cyclist]

Originally Posted by Comrade

So help me god if they reclad it in stucco...

Luckily I'm pretty sure a key part of the agreement was that it maintain it's historical appearance.