Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 4

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Scraperdude801

I know I've said this before, but I think it should be revisited. We should remove the solar panels from the Salt Palace, expand the Salt Palace over RWP, and build a green roof/park from South Temple to 200 S and West temple to 300 W with entrance ramps/stairs on every block.. Hear me out:

1. The city desperately wants to find more green/open space downtown, build a staple park, yet not make downtown less walkable than it already is.
2. Conventions are expanding and will soon need more convention space, and with a new CCH, we'll be more attractive to even larger conventions. If we simply expand the convention center as we have in the past, we'll be destroying even more of our urban center, as the loading docks will have to isolate some streets, etc.
3. Currently, the convention center acts as a wall that separates the two sides of downtown, severely decreasing walkability, much like Mellon arena did in Pittsburgh (which is what stifled development and made the Hill district so dangerous there).
4. We, a mid sized city with plenty of prime locations for towers around the convention center, are worried about building to our potential because we fear we'll block the solar panels!!!
5. The environmental trade off between solar panels and a green roof (reduced heating and A/C needs) as well as increased walkability between the two malls downtown (which translates to less fossil fuel burning of cars), would be a trade off I'd make every day of the week. Also, I believe we could use those solar panels elsewhere.
6. We would be gaining an iconic park, giving us exceptional views of the city, and making us even more unique. Imagine Outdoor Retailers demonstrating in the park...

It seems to me that it would be easier to continue pierpont through the next block west just north of Redrock/Poplar Street grill. Poplar ct should also be continued through that block north to south. We would lose Downtown self storage , and we would pick up a lot of streetfront in a desirable location. Poplar Ct (rechristened Poplar Street) would help bring more foot traffic to 200 south.

4. No one is saying don't build the hotel(here at least), but the north lot may be more attractive to the committee partially because of the solar array.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Dallas Snob

I completely understand and appreciate all the talk about the CCH...its wonderful to speculate...my only objection is that there are several other SLC Threads (including this one) that have basically become obsolete due to lack of posts on developments that are actually in process. Perhaps all the SLC threads should just be consolidated into one after all...

OH NO I DIDNT!

Dallas Snob,
Not sure what you are talking about. This thread is obsolete because it doesn't have enough posts of other projects in Salt Lake City? Are there particular projects you are referring to?

[Orlando]

While I acknowledge how cool it would be to have a tall slender tower in downtown, I think there are much bigger concerns to deal with. Vibrancy is where Salt Lake City is lacking. The lack of street engagement is where it needs great improvement. We have too many gaps in the downtown area. If there truly is demand for a 1200 room hotel, let's build that in two buildings that would infill those gaps and make sure that these buildings have great street engagement. Also, a 600 footer would stick out like a sore thumb. 111 Main and the new Regent Hotel are great additions to the overall urban form and experience of Salt Lake City.


This image shows all the parking lots and gaps in the area.


Sore thumb.


And, Makid, I'm not sure why you think that both APS and CCH would be built as tall slender towers. I'm very skeptical of any big, tall proposal.

[Orlando]

Btw, I heard a rumor that that giant parking lot block north of Little America is targeted to be some sort of outdoor/indoor park/recreation place. I'ld be interested to see if anybody can dig up any info about this.

[nushiof]

Originally Posted by Orlando

While I acknowledge how cool it would be to have a tall slender tower in downtown, I think there are much bigger concerns to deal with. Vibrancy is where Salt Lake City is lacking. The lack of street engagement is where it needs great improvement. We have too many gaps in the downtown area. If there truly is demand for a 1200 room hotel, let's build that in two buildings that would infill those gaps and make sure that these buildings have great street engagement. Also, a 600 footer would stick out like a sore thumb. 111 Main and the new Regent Hotel are great additions to the overall urban form and experience of Salt Lake City.


This image shows all the parking lots and gaps in the area.


Sore thumb.


And, Makid, I'm not sure why you think that both APS and CCH would be built as tall slender towers. I'm very skeptical of any big, tall proposal.

Thanks for the rendering. Gives us a good idea of what a taller building would look like with our skyline. It does stick out but I'm all for that. As long as the design looks good, I am okay with something significantly taller (even 600-700 ft) than the rest of the surrounding skyline.

It would make the skyline look much more interesting and imposing than it would with another cereal box stub. I think other taller buildings would eventually fill in.

I'd really like to see something iconic for SLC. A "statement" tower if you will. The developers who submitted proposals are apparently thinking along those lines too, and I hope one of them can pull it off.

[wrendog]

I don't think that sticks out like a sore thumb at all. Sticks out? Yes! But in a good way.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by Orlando

That doesn't look too shabby, actually. Definitely sticks out, but it could be balanced out eventually. Hopefully it ends up being that slender, but I'm doubtful.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Btw, I heard a rumor that that giant parking lot block north of Little America is targeted to be some sort of outdoor/indoor park/recreation place. I'ld be interested to see if anybody can dig up any info about this.

That's a pretty vague description. What does "outdoor/indoor park/recreation place" mean? If it's what I'm imagining, I doubt it's true. The city described the future of that block as a "south anchor" for the city, which in my mind would be a dense, high-rise area.

[Hatman]

Using the roof of the convention center as a park is one of the best ideas I've heard here in a long while.
It wouldn't need to be a heavy park. Take the High Line park in NYC as an example; there is no vast lawn and planted trees, but a lot of interesting features nonetheless. An urban park with walkways, limited greenery, and potted trees would probably be alright up there with minimal structural reinforcement. Perhaps the costs of reinforcement could be packaged together with a future expansion.
I wouldn't design it as a through route. Going up and over the Salt Palace in order to get somewhere is not the route I would take, no matter how nice the route is to walk through. Make it a destination where people would want to hang out. Make it a park.
Security and safety may be an issue. I've heard those excuses given as to why the Conference Center Roof isn't freely accessible except for tours. But I'm sure something could be worked out.
I agree that not building towers just because they would disrupt a solar array is a pretty bad deal. There are better places for an array than in a downtown filled with towers. If the convention center has to be long, wide, and flat, the rooftop park is by far the best way to make lemonade of that lemon.

[Orlando]

deleted comment

[RC14]

Originally Posted by Hatman

Using the roof of the convention center as a park is one of the best ideas I've heard here in a long while.
It wouldn't need to be a heavy park. Take the High Line park in NYC as an example; there is no vast lawn and planted trees, but a lot of interesting features nonetheless. An urban park with walkways, limited greenery, and potted trees would probably be alright up there with minimal structural reinforcement. Perhaps the costs of reinforcement could be packaged together with a future expansion.
I wouldn't design it as a through route. Going up and over the Salt Palace in order to get somewhere is not the route I would take, no matter how nice the route is to walk through. Make it a destination where people would want to hang out. Make it a park.
Security and safety may be an issue. I've heard those excuses given as to why the Conference Center Roof isn't freely accessible except for tours. But I'm sure something could be worked out.
I agree that not building towers just because they would disrupt a solar array is a pretty bad deal. There are better places for an array than in a downtown filled with towers. If the convention center has to be long, wide, and flat, the rooftop park is by far the best way to make lemonade of that lemon.

I usually don't like the idea of creating more outdoor space downtown, as I think we already have too many gaps in the urban fabric but I think this is different. A park on top of the Salt Palace would be a great idea. The park would add more green to that part of downtown without sacrificing street engagement or future development.
I would like to see food trucks up there also. Assuming the building could be reinforced to support the additional weight.

I would also like to say that I support the idea of a CCH over 550' or even 650'. I don't think it sticks out that much. If anything, the CCH, APS and VCC.. (is that right?) will shift the focus of the skyline to the west, which I don't think is a bad thing. Also, as others have pointed out, the skyline will probably fill in over time.

[asies1981]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Btw, I heard a rumor that that giant parking lot block north of Little America is targeted to be some sort of outdoor/indoor park/recreation place. I'ld be interested to see if anybody can dig up any info about this.

I have heard that too. I think it is being planned, but I don't think there is anything final yet.

[asies1981]

The people behind Avenues Proper are opening a brewery and tavern in the Central Ninth neighborhood. This block could use the activation.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Btw, I heard a rumor that that giant parking lot block north of Little America is targeted to be some sort of outdoor/indoor park/recreation place. I'ld be interested to see if anybody can dig up any info about this.

I hope not. I was hoping that block would get quartered or at least halved.

[RC14]

^
I agree, this would be extremely disappointing. It's the perfect location for a TOD.

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

I hope not. I was hoping that block would get quartered or at least halved.

I know this may restart a fire that was previously put out a few days ago, but I was thinking…

That block has hundreds of beautiful, healthy, well established Sycamores. Instead of ripping everything out and throwing in some kind of development, why not just rip out the concrete, leave everything else, and redesign it into some kind of modern park/outdoor venue/public garden/pond or whatever. I know we already have plenty of green space, but is any of that plenty close to the actual downtown? I mean, this would be an ACTUAL downtown park. Not one filled with homeless a mile to the west and not one two damn miles away to the southeast!

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by RC14

^
I agree, this would be extremely disappointing. It's the perfect location for a TOD.

Actually, I think it's a great location for this. It lines up with the view corridor to the City and County building. And, it continues a series of blocks dedicated to civic buildings and public spaces. It would have been great if they had a mid-block connection, but the courthouse blocked that. The R/UDAT team that visited Salt Lake City in the late 80's suggested that this block should be some large civic park/plaza. R/UDAT (Regional Urban Design Assistance Team) was a traveling group of experts in urban design. I still have the book that they produced for the city. I really do think it will be great there.

[ctobsl]

Originally Posted by Wasatch Wasteland

I know this may restart a fire that was previously put out a few days ago, but I was thinking…

That block has hundreds of beautiful, healthy, well established Sycamores. Instead of ripping everything out and throwing in some kind of development, why not just rip out the concrete, leave everything else, and redesign it into some kind of modern park/outdoor venue/public garden/pond or whatever. I know we already have plenty of green space, but is any of that plenty close to the actual downtown? I mean, this would be an ACTUAL downtown park. Not one filled with homeless a mile to the west and not one two damn miles away to the southeast!

It wont take long before the homeless invade it and claim it theirs. With Trax running right by it they will have a free ride to and from like they do now to everywhere in the valley. In my opinion I think it will be much better if it were developed as a South anchor to the downtown area with shops, apartments, condos, some entertainment as well as health, medical clinics and a grocery store.

[Orlando]

That's a good point regarding the homeless. The last time I was at the library you couldn't sit down by the cool corner fireplace area because there was homeless people sprawled out on everything. There's got to be some laws that keep things in order. These expensive and beautiful public buildings and spaces don't get used by those who pay taxes for it because the homeless keep everyone away from it. Portland's Park Blocks have some police that watch them and keep the homeless off of them, I think. Why can't we have that too? I think Pioneer Park has had some regular police patrols to keep the homeless from congregating on it like it had been in the past.

[RC14]

That is another problem I have with openspace downtown. The homeless have to go somewhere and they will choose public property because it is more difficult to keep them away. It is easier to deal with this problem on private property such as the City Creek Center.
The idea of a civic space corridor is kind of cool but the orientation of the Matheson courthouse kind of kills it.

I like the idea of preserving old trees as opposed to ripping them out. Mature trees make new developments feel more established. Whatever happens to that block, it would be nice if they could be incorporated into the plan.