DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[DenverPoke]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

Wow.. when you combine this infill with the proposed Market St redevelopment, this corner is going to be bustling and will probably rival Larimer St and Union Station as the place to be in Denver.

Now if we could only get some traction on Block 162 and the two large parking lots at 18th and Market - then we'd be cooking with gas.

Or cooking with hot sauce as my buddy likes to say.

[DenvertoLA]

Does anyone know if 1144 fifteenth has a webcam?

[TakeFive]

U.S.A - U.S.A. - U.S.A.

East Coast - West Coast - West Coast - East Coast

Go West, Young Man, Go West

Fascinating combination of data and times we're living in.
Per MarketWatch:

• Job openings in September rise to second-highest level on record
• Jobless claims remain near 15-year low
• Fed's Bullard says prudent to edge up rates and shrink balance sheet
• Mortgage rates rise for second straight week, Freddie Mac says

Per Bloomberg:

• The stronger dollar and a persistent slump in demand from China rekindled a selloff in commodities.
• Copper fell to the lowest level since 2009 and oil slid through $42 a barrel as the Bloomberg Commodity Index sank to the lowest since 1999.

I read recently that there's a big shipment of Iraqi oil to our shores, presumably Houston bound. Copper, often called Dr. Copper due to its prescriptive value of future economic activity is really more of a China dependent and global indicator. The stronger dollar continues to weigh on commodities and will continue to weigh on manufacturing, more particularly multi-nationals and those who export although continuing lower cost of raw materials can also be a plus.

Forbes: Denver one of the best climates for job seekers
Nov 12, 2015 by Caitlin Hendee Denver Business Journal

The Mile High City is one of the few cities in the nation that has offered job seekers a better climate than others so far in 2015, according to a new Forbes report

Compiled by Arizona State University business professor Lee McPheters for nonagricultural job growth if you survey the top ten lists of cities and states on the Forbes article it paints a vivid clear picture. Aside from Texas/Dallas, it's East Coast, West Coast and inter-mountain west that's the most healthy and growing.

As I've suggested, construction is now the biggest driver of (job) growth in Denver. The state doesn't make the top ten list and that is due to oil & gas.

While the above data may not seem all that relevant to Denver, it is their combination that should drive developers to develop and while Denver may not be one of the "hot" markets, it's decidedly still very solid. At least for the next 6/8 months I'd expect developers to power forward with anything in the design/permitting pipeline.

Going forward the Fed's changing tune of nudging rates up and shrinking its balance sheet is wise even if a bit contractionary.

[RyanD]

1401 Lawrence:

Central Downtown: 1401 Lawrence Update #9
via DenverInfill

[BG918]

That's a cool view in your last pic Ryan. It will be even better once 1144 15th rises to the left of 4S with Larimer Sq in the foreground. You'll have to walk a few more feet to the right more directly in front of Capital Grille though.

[corey]

the height of 1401 Lawrence is perfect for is surrounding context. the originally planned 51 story condo building would have been too tall. It would have been awesome for another downtown site though. I won't hold my breath, but now it would be great if Bell Park condo tower and other building would get going again.

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by bcp

Great....Larimer square has been destroyed

I'm really curious about what the patio at Bistro Vendome is like now actually...

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by corey

the height of 1401 Lawrence is perfect for is surrounding context. the originally planned 51 story condo building would have been too tall. It would have been awesome for another downtown site though. I won't hold my breath, but now it would be great if Bell Park condo tower and other building would get going again.

I completely disagree with this. Bulk is far more of an enemy than height. Not that anybody in Denver would know this; we've never seen tall and narrow - bulk is all we know. This building "ruins" Larimer Square far worse than the original proposal would have. (Not that I think either does.)

[FunctionForm]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I completely disagree with this. Bulk is far more of an enemy than height. Not that anybody in Denver would know this; we've never seen tall and narrow - bulk is all we know. This building "ruins" Larimer Square far worse than the original proposal would have. (Not that I think either does.)

Agreed. The scale of anything above 20 or so floors is completely lost at the street level. And gawkers on Larimer would have loved it. It is a complete lost opportunity to have had a tall tower with people who actually owned their homes.

[corey]

That bland condo tower was just as bulky, and a lot taller. It didn't have a much smaller foot print than this building. The height would have been more imposing on Larimer Square. There are better sites for a tall condo tower than this one. Like the two story parking garage/bank adjacent to Skyline Park on 18th Street or the parking lot next to The Spire for examples. I think the way the mostly glass curtain wall will reflect the sky will make this building less obtrusive as well.

[Stonemans_rowJ]

Originally Posted by corey

That bland condo tower was just as bulky, and a lot taller. It didn't have a much smaller foot print than this building. The height would have been more imposing on Larimer Square. There are better sites for a tall condo tower than this one. Like the two story parking garage/bank adjacent to Skyline Park on 18th Street or the parking lot next to The Spire for examples. I think the way the mostly glass curtain wall will reflect the sky will make this building less obtrusive as well.

The rendering actually was anything but bland. A lot more "Toronto" than normal Denver blandness.

And, really there aren't necessarily "better" sites. When you are selling condos, and are selling a luxury building, different blocks even in the same downtown area can be significantly more desirable to buyers.

That site is just a better location than those other two that you describe. 18th street is vastly inferior to 14th, at least for condos, and the other site next to the Spire, its next to Bubba Gump vs. Rioja. Enough said...

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by corey

That bland condo tower was just as bulky, and a lot taller. It didn't have a much smaller foot print than this building. The height would have been more imposing on Larimer Square. There are better sites for a tall condo tower than this one. Like the two story parking garage/bank adjacent to Skyline Park on 18th Street or the parking lot next to The Spire for examples. I think the way the mostly glass curtain wall will reflect the sky will make this building less obtrusive as well.

??? You sure about that?

[enjo13]

God I loved that building.

Although I'm plenty happy with what we're getting too. It's a nice nice nice building.

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ

That site is just a better location than those other two that you describe. 18th street is vastly inferior to 14th, at least for condos, and the other site next to the Spire, its next to Bubba Gump vs. Rioja. Enough said...

You mean it's next to TAG

This is so true, particularly in a cold weather city. I never really appreciated it until we lived in Glass House. When it's 20 degrees outside even a block or two is torture. Just having to cross Millenium Bridge (or that 17th street bridge now) to get to Union Station is..uhm.. a bridge too far. It seriously knocks many thousands of dollars off of the value of a condo for me.

That said there are a lot of really cool spots associated with the area around Spire. Particularly if you're not just bleeding money. Best bar in the city (Union Lodge #1). Stout Street Social is pretty rad. You can eat at Boney's every night. It's really not all bad.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by enjo13

God I loved that building.

Although I'm plenty happy with what we're getting too. It's a nice nice nice building.

And it's the same developer (Great Gulf). If they are successful with 1401 Lawrence they might jump back into the condo market. All eyes will be on the Coloradan as the first large condo project downtown since 4S/Spire. I think some of those lots on 15th around Curtis and Stout would be great sites for tall condos. We need to give 15th a makeover similar to the one 14th received several years ago, lots of new and future development along it.

[bunt_q]

Sure, half as bulky is "just as bulky." Half as much is always just the same.

Also, there's no such thing as bad weather. Only the wrong clothes.

On the condo point, the City Council is going to give the construction defect ordinance a hearing on Monday. Highly suggest we all show up and speak. That project could just as quickly swing back to rental.

[lumos]

I saw some earth moving equipment being ushered in through the wooden fence this morning.

[Stonemans_rowJ]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Sure, half as bulky is "just as bulky." Half as much is always just the same.

Also, there's no such thing as bad weather. Only the wrong clothes.

On the condo point, the City Council is going to give the construction defect ordinance a hearing on Monday. Highly suggest we all show up and speak. That project could just as quickly swing back to rental.

Don't you think if it was going to be rentals they'd already have shovels in the ground? Sounds like its condos either way.

Nava Sloan's Lake article from today says they'll start pre-sales in first quarter 2016, again doesn't sound dependent on City Council doing anything...

[Stonemans_rowJ]

Originally Posted by enjo13

You mean it's next to TAG

This is so true, particularly in a cold weather city. I never really appreciated it until we lived in Glass House. When it's 20 degrees outside even a block or two is torture. Just having to cross Millenium Bridge (or that 17th street bridge now) to get to Union Station is..uhm.. a bridge too far. It seriously knocks many thousands of dollars off of the value of a condo for me.

That said there are a lot of really cool spots associated with the area around Spire. Particularly if you're not just bleeding money. Best bar in the city (Union Lodge #1). Stout Street Social is pretty rad. You can eat at Boney's every night. It's really not all bad.

Good point. TAG is way more hip. Only been to Rioja once, and the food was outstanding, but it seemed most people there were twice our age.

I'm with you on the fact that those places near Spire are great, and that's more up my alley too. However, that type of condo building (Great Gulf) is going more for the Rioja/TAG/Larimer Square crowd I would think.

[RyanD]

Skyhouse!

Upper Downtown: SkyHouse Denver Update #3
via DenverInfill