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  #8161  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 4:18 PM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
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Originally Posted by Hali87 View Post
Of the people I was thinking of specifically, only one (out of three) was both Anglo and Canadian. I honestly only have a vague sense of what makes a city "provincial" - I can't think of any examples really.
OK, here's an example. Vancouver and Seattle. The downtown feeling in Vancouver is sleeker, finer, etc etc. But Seattle is light years ahead in its music scene. That includes Symphony, Opera, as well as grunge rock! It's a real music city!!
Vancouver, for all its seeming urbanity, is Mickey Mouse compared to Seattle when it comes to music, almost to the point of embarassment. So, in that regard, you could call Vancouver "provincial" althought it does other things, like urban planning, well.
     
     
  #8162  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 4:34 PM
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  #8163  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 5:30 PM
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  #8164  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 6:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Hali87 View Post
Of the people I was thinking of specifically, only one (out of three) was both Anglo and Canadian. I honestly only have a vague sense of what makes a city "provincial" - I can't think of any examples really.
The idea that some places are inherently more provincial than others is becoming an anachronism in the wealthier, more connected parts of the world (and more and more parts are becoming wealthy and well-connected). In smaller cities there used to be severe limitations on what you could get, how much you could participate in global or even national culture, and how easy it was to travel. These are mostly gone now so the limiting factor when it comes to worldliness is how much people are interested in learning about and travelling to other parts of the world. There's a cultural component to those preferences but they depend more on the preferences of individuals than what city they happen to live in, so you can find comparatively provincial people in big cities and worldly people in small towns. Some of the most worldly people I know live in tiny hamlets.

I do agree that in the Anglosphere there is a strange pecking order. It is strange because, in Canada, we have mostly retained the order despite changes to the underlying realities. In Halifax for example people tend like the idea that they're in a horrible backwater. What's interesting is that the yardstick for the past 50 years or so has been Toronto, but Toronto itself has been a moving target. People used to think they lived in a backwater because they were in a town that was much smaller and less connected than another third-rate town. Now the same comparisons are against a fairly prominent global city.

I bet a significant portion of the pecking order dates to the era when Canada was governed by six week old mail delivered by ship from London. Meanwhile many of the people who operate under these assumptions are convinced that we made a clean break and that history is irrelevant.
     
     
  #8165  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 6:34 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
The idea that some places are inherently more provincial than others is becoming an anachronism in the wealthier, more connected parts of the world (and more and more parts are becoming wealthy and well-connected). In smaller cities there used to be severe limitations on what you could get, how much you could participate in global or even national culture, and how easy it was to travel. These are mostly gone now so the limiting factor when it comes to worldliness is how much people are interested in learning about and travelling to other parts of the world. There's a cultural component to those preferences but they depend more on the preferences of individuals than what city they happen to live in, so you can find comparatively provincial people in big cities and worldly people in small towns. Some of the most worldly people I know live in tiny hamlets.

I do agree that in the Anglosphere there is a strange pecking order. It is strange because, in Canada, we have mostly retained the order despite changes to the underlying realities. In Halifax for example people tend like the idea that they're in a horrible backwater. What's interesting is that the yardstick for the past 50 years or so has been Toronto, but Toronto itself has been a moving target. People used to think they lived in a backwater because they were in a town that was much smaller and less connected than another third-rate town. Now the same comparisons are against a fairly prominent global city.
I agree that provincialism is no longer territorial. At the same time, though, there are large swathes of the population that are genuinely being left behind - not just in a material sense, but in terms of a wider "access to opportunity"/"ability to change life situation"/"feasibility of gaining alternative perspectives", so the sting of 'provincialism' on actual people is more severe than ever.

It's very telling that members of population groups that are vulnerable to being left behind retreat to provincial symbolism for "security". They know they're being left behind, if unconsciously, so they react. I don't think this was the case - or at least not nearly to the same extent - in prototypical "provincial" societies before the war. For example, if you were a goat herder in the Pyrenees circa 1905, you would probably not have taken a perverse pride in the fact that you could barely read and write and that you hadn't traveled more than 20 miles from your birthplace your entire life.
     
     
  #8166  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 6:48 PM
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I love people who post older pics and pretend to like a city lol or a skyline Lolll love it!!!!
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  #8167  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 6:58 PM
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Originally Posted by G.S MTL View Post
I love people who post older pics and pretend to like a city lol or a skyline Lolll love it!!!!

Pretend? LOL, Skyline? LOL.
     
     
  #8168  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 7:03 PM
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  #8169  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 7:07 PM
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Cool aerial.
     
     
  #8170  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 7:08 PM
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  #8171  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 7:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.S MTL View Post
I love people who post older pics and pretend to like a city lol or a skyline Lolll love it!!!!
Montreal really looks futuristic and can-do from this angle, really punches above her weight!!
Almost as big-city as Okotoks!!!

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  #8172  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 7:19 PM
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Must be my favourite shot of pre-war downtown Montreal.

edit: whoops just noticed, you can see the Montreal General (1955) and the Laurentien (1947). It's probably the late 50's.
     
     
  #8173  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 7:22 PM
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  #8174  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 7:24 PM
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Who the hell would let their 12 year old sit on top of a skyscraper like that?? Bad parenting I say...
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  #8175  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 7:37 PM
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  #8176  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 7:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post
OK, here's an example. Vancouver and Seattle. The downtown feeling in Vancouver is sleeker, finer, etc etc. But Seattle is light years ahead in its music scene. That includes Symphony, Opera, as well as grunge rock! It's a real music city!!
Vancouver, for all its seeming urbanity, is Mickey Mouse compared to Seattle when it comes to music, almost to the point of embarassment. So, in that regard, you could call Vancouver "provincial" althought it does other things, like urban planning, well.
Canada builds cities well but is absolutely shit at building culture. Vancouver looks nice but lacks cultural substance. It feeds off of seattle and almost functions like an international suburb of washington state.
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  #8177  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 8:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post
Canada builds cities well but is absolutely shit at building culture. Vancouver looks nice but lacks cultural substance. It feeds off of seattle and almost functions like an international suburb of washington state.
Vancouver's art scene actually does extremely well internationally. It's that people here don't know how or where to support it, so they pretend that it doesn't exist. It always reminds me of this article:

http://www.macleans.ca/culture/new-york-paris-berlin-winnipeg/

I think that the problem in Canada is that we suck at consuming our own art, not that we lack art or culture.
     
     
  #8178  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 8:26 PM
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Mrcorporate, you are delusional if you even remotely believe New York City and Toronto are comparable. New York is the primary city in a country of over 300 million people. Toronto is in Canada. New York is quite possibly the greatest city to have ever existed in the history of man (with London a distant 2nd). The urban experience of nyc is not comparable anywhere on this planet and that's what makes it special. No one can argue with your preference it is what it is but to suggest Toronto or any Canadian city will ever be in its leagues is laughable.

As a side note it's debates like this that give Canadian the well deserved reputation as boring.
     
     
  #8179  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Gerrard View Post
Toronto is in Canada. New York is quite possibly the greatest city to have ever existed in the history of man (with London a distant 2nd). The urban experience of nyc is not comparable anywhere on this planet and that's what makes it special.
Give me Tokyo over New York any day.
     
     
  #8180  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 8:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerrard View Post
Mrcorporate, you are delusional if you even remotely believe New York City and Toronto are comparable. New York is the primary city in a country of over 300 million people. Toronto is in Canada. New York is quite possibly the greatest city to have ever existed in the history of man (with London a distant 2nd). The urban experience of nyc is not comparable anywhere on this planet and that's what makes it special. No one can argue with your preference it is what it is but to suggest Toronto or any Canadian city will ever be in its leagues is laughable.

As a side note it's debates like this that give Canadian the well deserved reputation as boring.
First of all, you misinterpreted my posts. I did not say Toronto is in the same league as NYC, I said it has a comparable street vibe and culture. Second of all, you state it's the "greatest city to have ever existed in the history of man (with London a distant 2nd)", which is very disputable, I would go as far as to say outlandish and ridiculous. I could list off 20 or so cities I prefer visiting, would prefer living in and find far more beautiful and pleasant just off the top of my head. Clearly, you've put a lot of thought and intelligence into your post, thank you for the medical assessment *facepalm*.
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