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  #8061  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 7:37 AM
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When I working for three months in Senegal the only tourists I met were usually older fat French men (I suspected some of them were nasty sex tourists).

I meet many heavy Germans in Japan as well.

American toursits here are quite loud and pushy compared to other western nations (especially the more "deep south" variety).

The worst ones here though are the unwashed scruffy back packers, and they come from all western countries. Quite amazing how similar a backpacker from Italy is to one from Canada or New Zealand. They are the ones that embarrass resident foreigners living here the most.
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  #8062  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 9:56 AM
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This is not to bash QC but you guys would probably find it lacking in cosmopolitanism. Or least in the type of cosmopolitanism that you are used to.

Although this is definitely changing in QC.


How so? I'm aware it's not particularly diverse ethnically, but if I thought that was the most important thing I would move to an anglosphere city (London, Toronto, Melbourne...). That's their game.

For me, Quebec is about the Quebecois and living in a truly francophone environment in North America. But it is valuable for a place to feel sort of "plugged-in" to some sort of world/historical current (Montreal has a nice mix of 'big city' anglo North America and the francophonie). Is Quebec a bit isolated in this sense? I have spent a lot of time there but never really knew many people in the city. I was always a tourist.

I know it's probably not quite a Canadian Geneva in terms of how many people are passing through (that's probably good, though – UN/WHO/NATO people get spooky after a while), but is it more self-contained than, say, Lyon or Antwerp? Or, say, Halifax, for that matter?

(This is all very idle speculation as I am happily based in Denmark, but still...)

It's easy to look and photos and think "yeah, that's interesting. That's pretty amazing that this exists."

     
     
  #8063  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 2:12 PM
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How so? I'm aware it's not particularly diverse ethnically, but if I thought that was the most important thing I would move to an anglosphere city (London, Toronto, Melbourne...). That's their game.

For me, Quebec is about the Quebecois and living in a truly francophone environment in North America. But it is valuable for a place to feel sort of "plugged-in" to some sort of world/historical current (Montreal has a nice mix of 'big city' anglo North America and the francophonie). Is Quebec a bit isolated in this sense? I have spent a lot of time there but never really knew many people in the city. I was always a tourist.

I know it's probably not quite a Canadian Geneva in terms of how many people are passing through (that's probably good, though – UN/WHO/NATO people get spooky after a while), but is it more self-contained than, say, Lyon or Antwerp? Or, say, Halifax, for that matter?

(This is all very idle speculation as I am happily based in Denmark, but still...)

It's easy to look and photos and think "yeah, that's interesting. That's pretty amazing that this exists."

I guess I sometimes forget that not everyone here is a "world in one city" type. You're used to being a fish out of water and perhaps even revel in it to some degree. I mean, you lived in Pristina.

Trying of a comparable to Quebec City and the best I can do is maybe Reykjavik. I mean, they're isolated to different degrees in different ways, but they're both reasonably sophisticated and fairly worldly in spite of their homogeneity, and they both have a sincere eagerness to engage with the wider world but they're a bit awkward when it comes to welcoming elements of the wider world into the family as full-fledged members.

Quebec City is a place where movies that aren't Hollywood and or aren't from the francophonie, or books originally written in Norwegian or Arabic can be number one on some popularity list and the talk of the town. That basically never happens in Toronto, Calgary or even New York.

But as a good friend of mine from Quebec City's who's worked in international development and relations says, that doesn't mean they'd easily accept the creators of all that stuff as part of the family.

As an example, she says that Quebec City is where someone like Portuguese language singer Cesaria Evora from Cape Verde in Africa can draw 25,000 people on the Plains of Abraham, whereas in Ottawa she'll draw 1000 people to a small concert bar with 750 of those people being Cape Verdean, Portuguese or Brazilian, and the other are 250 Québécois from Gatineau.

But on the other hand if someone like Cesaria Evora moved to Ottawa, she'd be more quickly and readily accepted as a Canadian and even a local than she would in Quebec City as a Québécoise.
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  #8064  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 2:23 PM
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Interesting. Well, I don't know if it will ever happen but if it did, I'm happy with a basic sort of "he lives here and deals with us in our own language so that's fine" sort of status. I mean, I don't need the Danes to call me (pretend I'm) a Dane... just so long as it's basically OK that I'm here and butchering their verbs, that's fine.

(Plus, I mean... I was a Quebecer for 17 years. My carte soleil is good for one more year, and my driver's license for two!)

Sometimes I worry that a parent could become ill or something, and in such a case I would move back.
     
     
  #8065  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 2:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
I find Montreal`s skyline to be hot and cold.

In some pics, not appealing at all IMO, but in other pics, such as the ones posted above, it looks fantastic.

Not sure why this is for me.
Angle, my friend.

Since Montreal's downtown has so much medium density (not necessarily reflected in the amount of skyscrapers), it doesn't look beefy at all in pictures taken from lower land (ex: the South Shore).

The best angle IMO is from the air, because that's where you can see all the density (highrises between 12-25 floors), just like the second picture of Nephersir7's set.

Last edited by SkahHigh; Nov 9, 2015 at 3:33 PM.
     
     
  #8066  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 2:55 PM
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Montreal just has a weird geography. It's always dipping out of view.
     
     
  #8067  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 2:55 PM
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Just to demonstrate my point, here's a pic taken from lower land:

Downtown Montreal in the background by Michael Berry, sur Flickr

Only the tallest skyscrapers appear. We don't even see 1501 McGill College (158m)...
     
     
  #8068  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 2:56 PM
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Wow again. Really? Fat French tourists? Sounds like an alternate reality. But the Chinese are the new ugly Americans anyway. Actually, their pestilent unpleasantness is probably worse than Americans ever were.

My experience totally jibes with that of someone123. One thing that's really off-putting about Americans is that yes, the ones going abroad tend to self-select into the most educated group, and yet somehow they still manage to be boorish and entitled. And of course it needs be said that Canadians are quite similar, though maybe just slightly less boorish and entitled, enough for them to notice and remark upon with self-satisfaction.

Speaking purely in stereotypes, of course. It's always gratifying to meet cool individual people from any culture or nation.
I'm kind of in the middle of rousseau, hipster duck and someone123 on this one.

I find the Americans lost a bit of their usual swagger during the first part of the 2000s what with the Dubya years and bad foreign policy and military decisions, and the Great Recession on the home front. They became a bit more modest and that was definitely perceptible on the international travel circuit.

During the same time Canada went through something of a golden age and we became collectively somewhat more cocky, which in turn (somewhat paradoxically) took a bit off the shine off what was once one of the world's most impeccable country reputations.

I don't know where things will go but certainly over the past decade or so, Canada and the U.S. can be said to have gotten a bit closer in how they behave and how they are perceived internationally. (Not saying it's identical BTW.)
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Last edited by Acajack; Nov 9, 2015 at 3:59 PM.
     
     
  #8069  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 3:11 PM
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The eastern angle is the best for Montreal. Coming in from the west is very underwhelming.

     
     
  #8070  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 3:16 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
Interesting. Well, I don't know if it will ever happen but if it did, I'm happy with a basic sort of "he lives here and deals with us in our own language so that's fine" sort of status. I mean, I don't need the Danes to call me (pretend I'm) a Dane... just so long as it's basically OK that I'm here and butchering their verbs, that's fine.

(Plus, I mean... I was a Quebecer for 17 years. My carte soleil is good for one more year, and my driver's license for two!)

Sometimes I worry that a parent could become ill or something, and in such a case I would move back.
Even in Quebec City things are changing and immigration is ramping up. Although I doubt it will ever be a "world in one city" kind of place. Actually, even Montreal probably won't ever really be like that.
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Last edited by Acajack; Nov 9, 2015 at 4:00 PM.
     
     
  #8071  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 3:56 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
Interesting. Well, I don't know if it will ever happen but if it did, I'm happy with a basic sort of "he lives here and deals with us in our own language so that's fine" sort of status. I mean, I don't need the Danes to call me (pretend I'm) a Dane... just so long as it's basically OK that I'm here and butchering their verbs, that's fine.

(Plus, I mean... I was a Quebecer for 17 years. My carte soleil is good for one more year, and my driver's license for two!)

Sometimes I worry that a parent could become ill or something, and in such a case I would move back.
"If you are absent from Québec 183 days or more in a given calendar year, you must notify the Régie of such, ideally before you leave, if you know how long you will be away. You must also fill out the form entitled Temporary Departure From Québec, available from the Régie. Upon receiving the completed form, the Régie will confirm in writing, if applicable, whether you remain eligible for the Health Insurance Plan."
     
     
  #8072  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 3:58 PM
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"If you are absent from Québec 183 days or more in a given calendar year, you must notify the Régie of such, ideally before you leave, if you know how long you will be away. You must also fill out the form entitled Temporary Departure From Québec, available from the Régie. Upon receiving the completed form, the Régie will confirm in writing, if applicable, whether you remain eligible for the Health Insurance Plan."




Well, damnit. I just took off in 2012 and, you know, see you whenever. Didn't sort things out re cards.

Although I'd really rather stick with my system-guaranteed Danish family doctor than wait around in another CLSC (I actually find I get less pissed off about high taxes when they visibly work)...
     
     
  #8073  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 4:02 PM
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But back on topic...

In most Canadian cities, you live on your street. In Quebec City, the older British usage makes more sense and you live in Rue Saint-Sauveur (or whatever).

Photos from the watermark-friendly Francis Vachon...



     
     
  #8074  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 4:14 PM
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But back on topic...

In most Canadian cities, you live on your street. In Quebec City, the older British usage makes more sense and you live in Rue Saint-Sauveur (or whatever).

Reminds me of how most Canadian cities have "ends" (east, west, north, south) whereas American cities have "sides".

This is true of Canada from the Atlantic Ocean all the way to Winnipeg I am pretty sure. Then when you get to SK and AB it's kind of a mixed usage, whereas Vancouver from what I have seen definitely has "sides".

Vancouver for some reason also uses the American standard of putting the cardinal point of a street before the name as opposed to after.

Such as: West Pender Street.

Elsewhere in Canada it's: Queen Street West.

Not sure why that is.
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  #8075  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 4:44 PM
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  #8076  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 4:52 PM
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^nice Fall shots!
     
     
  #8077  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 7:56 PM
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Since Montreal's downtown has so much medium density (not necessarily reflected in the amount of skyscrapers), it doesn't look beefy at all in pictures taken from lower land (ex: the South Shore).
Mount Royal makes it look smaller too. I'm not sure if I should make this comparison but Calgary's pretty much the exact opposite, where there are some large buildings and then a relatively flat, low-density city. Montreal can look like a small city from certain angles, while Calgary can look larger. When you're walking around in Montreal though it feels much larger. It is a big old city with some skyscrapers in the middle whereas Calgary is a small city with some skyscrapers.

The view of old Montreal where the Bonsecours Market and other historic buildings are most prominent and the 60's office towers are in behind is probably my favourite skyline-type perspective in Canada. I'm not sure if that is a valid skyscraper enthusiast type of perspective though; I like the older and more intricate buildings more than tall buildings.

Halifax has a similar geographic effect going on with the Citadel, and Quebec City has the opposite layout. I think the Quebec City layout is far superior, both in terms of showing off what's there and in terms of urban planning. In Halifax there has been a tendency to redevelop prime land over and over whereas in Quebec City the core has spread outward more. As a result, more of the old buildings in Quebec City have been preserved.
     
     
  #8078  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 8:00 PM
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For the American tourist stuff I should probably mention that I've lived in two cities that receive a large number of cruise ship passengers. It's probably unfair to lump that crowd in with other travellers, but it's hard not to give it some weight.
     
     
  #8079  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 9:30 PM
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  #8080  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2015, 9:41 PM
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The new additions to Montreal's skyline are looking great!
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