[Surrey] Century City Holland Park | 49m, 65m, 117m, 135m | 11, 19, 36, 42fls | U/C

[GMasterAres]

Yah the developers of 3 Civic are also the developers for Holland Pointe. They've shifted all their focus rightly so to 3 Civic and it makes sense.

If they were tying to build Holland Pointe they would be 1) competing with themselves (3 Civic also has commercial and residential interests) and 2) competing with the HUB development across the street. They're likely wanting to focus on 3 Civic while HUB builds up, then based on how that goes, refocus back to Holland Pointe.

All guesses on my part but to me it seems logical. A big point of Holland Pointe was to be a large office tower. Surrey is still not a huge draw for office space as seen with the downgrading of the development near Gateway.

[WarrenC12]

I don't think Civic 3 is selling as well as anticipated. I've been on the mailing list since the beginning and still get "it's your last chance" emails every so often.

[Shift]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't think Civic 3 is selling as well as anticipated. I've been on the mailing list since the beginning and still get "it's your last chance" emails every so often.

Not surprising given they are marketing the units as 'Luxury' condos.

Not sure what the price range is but luxury doesn't fit with the current neighbourhood around Surrey Central Station. Maybe 20 years from now..

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by Shift

Not surprising given they are marketing the units as 'Luxury' condos.

Not sure what the price range is but luxury doesn't fit with the current neighbourhood around Surrey Central Station. Maybe 20 years from now..

Add that they only allow appointments to visit the sales center, which creates a perception issue.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

It appears they posted a new rendering of the interiors, showing some sign that Holland will be their next project:

Thanks - at least that looks like an office building lobby and not a condo lobby.

[Jack Guevara]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Yah the developers of 3 Civic are also the developers for Holland Pointe. They've shifted all their focus rightly so to 3 Civic and it makes sense.

If they were tying to build Holland Pointe they would be 1) competing with themselves (3 Civic also has commercial and residential interests) and 2) competing with the HUB development across the street. They're likely wanting to focus on 3 Civic while HUB builds up, then based on how that goes, refocus back to Holland Pointe.

All guesses on my part but to me it seems logical. A big point of Holland Pointe was to be a large office tower. Surrey is still not a huge draw for office space as seen with the downgrading of the development near Gateway.

I do not understand why there is not a demand for office space in Surrey Central. It is in the middle of the metro area so it's fair to all employees. It has very good transit and ample parking. I'm sure individual businesses have their reasons. However I strongly believe that many businesses would do better for themselves and their employees by moving to Surrey Centre.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by Jack Guevara

I do not understand why there is not a demand for office space in Surrey Central. It is in the middle of the metro area so it's fair to all employees. It has very good transit and ample parking. I'm sure individual businesses have their reasons. However I strongly believe that many businesses would do better for themselves and their employees by moving to Surrey Centre.

Employees and employers like to be surrounded by lots of places to eat, go for meetings with clients, grab a coffee, etc. Surrey Central still has a ways to go on that front.

[Blease]

Originally Posted by csbvan

Employees and employers like to be surrounded by lots of places to eat, go for meetings with clients, grab a coffee, etc. Surrey Central still has a ways to go on that front.

It's a catch-22, people and businesses won't move into neighbourhoods without amenities, and nobody's going to invest in amenities until there's people around. However Surrey's had the good fortune to have had forward looking municipal leadership and people and amenities continue moving into this area. For comparison purposes just look at what this area had 4 years, 8 years, 12 years ago.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by Jack Guevara

I do not understand why there is not a demand for office space in Surrey Central. It is in the middle of the metro area so it's fair to all employees.

This is endlessly repeated in Surrey threads. Burnaby is the middle of the metro, Surrey is on the southeast edge. The majority of the population is in the northwest corner of the valley. This is why Burnaby is booming and Surrey is not - it's still a distant, low density suburb.

[nickinacan]

I'm not sure where you all are getting your info from, but the last time I was at their sales centre (Just before it closed), They had a diagram of the building that showed all the units that had sold and what was was still available. The building was nearly sold out with only a handful of units of a few select layouts still available, most which were units that were smaller on the lower floors. What makes this building different than others, is due to the cost, I'm assuming many people are buying with the intention of living in them, as opposed many of the others which become rentals.

And for the record, all the Penthouses were the first to go when they first started selling, so I doubt this is a perception issue. I will agree that Surrey is a tougher sell than places like Burnaby and Richmond due to location and the reputation of the neighbourhood, but that can change with time.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by Jack Guevara

I do not understand why there is not a demand for office space in Surrey Central. It is in the middle of the metro area so it's fair to all employees. It has very good transit and ample parking. I'm sure individual businesses have their reasons. However I strongly believe that many businesses would do better for themselves and their employees by moving to Surrey Centre.

Because 84% of the population drives. Personally if I were looking for employment or looking to move the office to a new location I would be looking at how I can access it by car. That means office parks. Surrey has plenty of those.

Just being honest.

[Blease]

Originally Posted by Pinion

This is endlessly repeated in Surrey threads. Burnaby is the middle of the metro, Surrey is on the southeast edge. The majority of the population is in the northwest corner of the valley. This is why Burnaby is booming and Surrey is not - it's still a distant, low density suburb.

This morning's Vancouver Sun describes Burnaby's eastern and central neighbourhoods as "super diverse", "middle to low income", containing "low income rental apartments" and "not glamorous".

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/eas...109/story.html

[Shift]

Originally Posted by Pinion

This is endlessly repeated in Surrey threads. Burnaby is the middle of the metro, Surrey is on the southeast edge. The majority of the population is in the northwest corner of the valley. This is why Burnaby is booming and Surrey is not - it's still a distant, low density suburb.

Sorry to burst your bubble:


Burnaby (2005): 208,482
Burnaby (2015): 237,161
Increase +28,679

Surrey (2005): 424,295
Surrey (2015): 542,678
Increase +118,383

Source: http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/Statist...ojections.aspx

Also most of this new growth is fairly high density. Majority of single family homes being built in Surrey are on very narrow, dense lots.
The momentum for Surrey City Centre is just gaining steam now.. took a while but it's about to take off.

[Jack Guevara]

Originally Posted by Shift

Sorry to burst your bubble:


Burnaby (2005): 208,482
Burnaby (2015): 237,161
Increase +28,679

Surrey (2005): 424,295
Surrey (2015): 542,678
Increase +118,383

Source: http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/Statist...ojections.aspx

Also most of this new growth is fairly high density. Majority of single family homes being built in Surrey are on very narrow, dense lots.
The momentum for Surrey City Centre is just gaining steam now.. took a while but it's about to take off.

Thanks for sharing. Although, statistics about Surrey consider everything from the fraser river to 0th ave. So when we say Surrey is BC's 2nd largest city, we need to consider Surrey's large land mass. Nonetheless, it's fair to say that we're observing surrey centre's take off as a regional centre. There are at least 6 cranes in downtown Surrey right now. I can only imagine what it will be like in 5 years.

[nickinacan]

Originally Posted by Jack Guevara

Thanks for sharing. Although, statistics about Surrey consider everything from the fraser river to 0th ave. So when we say Surrey is BC's 2nd largest city, we need to consider Surrey's large land mass. Nonetheless, it's fair to say that we're observing surrey centre's take off as a regional centre. There are at least 6 cranes in downtown Surrey right now. I can only imagine what it will be like in 5 years.

Well if you take the northern part of Surrey, not including the disconnected areas of Cloverdale and South Surrey, you get the following using Surrey's 2015 projected populationv (http://www.surrey.ca/business-econom...ment/1418.aspx:

Whalley (With City Centre) - 102,100
Guildford - 61,940
Newton - 133,390
Fleetwood - 60,390

Total North Surrey Urban Area - 357,820

It would still be the second largest city in BC after Vancouver. Regardless, I'm happy things are finally starting to get some traction in the City Centre. It has been a long time coming.

[Jack Guevara]

Originally Posted by nickinacan

Well if you take the northern part of Surrey, not including the disconnected areas of Cloverdale and South Surrey, you get the following using Surrey's 2015 projected populationv (http://www.surrey.ca/business-econom...ment/1418.aspx:

Whalley (With City Centre) - 102,100
Guildford - 61,940
Newton - 133,390
Fleetwood - 60,390

Total North Surrey Urban Area - 357,820

It would still be the second largest city in BC after Vancouver. Regardless, I'm happy things are finally starting to get some traction in the City Centre. It has been a long time coming.

Wow! I had no idea that North Surrey is BC's 2nd largest city. This justifies the appropriateness of offices in downtown surrey.

If there are so many people living in Surrey, offices should set up in Surrey!!!! I worked at an office in downtown Vancouver with around 30 co-workers. 20 of the employees lived in Surrey! The owner should just move the office to Surrey. It's kind of unfair to make all of us commute just so he can have a short drive from West Vancouver. But I guess that's the world that we live in. Capitalism.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't think Civic 3 is selling as well as anticipated. I've been on the mailing list since the beginning and still get "it's your last chance" emails every so often.

Don't think. I'd like to actually know. I've heard it has sold well. No sell-out over night like you get in some of the towers in Burnaby or Downtown, but those are not the norm and this whole tower sold out in 1 night is a fairly short-lived unique experience to this region. Most buildings need to be on the market for a few years to sell out.

[GMasterAres]

As for the whole Surrey Central is center to the region, geographically it is, there is no disputing that no matter how many people jump up and down claiming Burnaby is. Look at a map and stick a dot in the middle it lands on Surrey Central.

But population wise the storey is a bit different when you combine North Van, Richmond, Vancouver, and Burnaby. The population center is definitely shifted more towards Burnaby Metrotown.

Burnaby's boom though has been strictly due to proximity to the historic center of the region which is Vancouver.

Also even though geographically Surrey Central is the center of the region, there is this giant working river along the northern shore cutting it off from North of Fraser. That creates a barrier due to the difficult on crossing the Fraser so again that underlines the population center being further North-West.

Regardless though, Surrey Central is better poised to be a distinct downtown for business and commerce from Vancouver whereas Metrotown (and maybe to a degree Brentwood in the future though 95% of the construction there is housing) is really just an extension of downtown Vancouver.

Metrotown competes far more directly with downtown Vancouver. I think it will be a long time before you see AAA commercial migrating South of Fraser. Surrey Central though is likely to become the downtown for more heavy industry in BC with a lot of industry vacating Vancouver.

[Pinion]

Cherry picking stats doesn't change anything. Surrey has big numbers because it's huge geographically - artificial borders don't make it more important than other suburbs. Look at population density and get back to me. I've been hearing "Surrey's about to take off" for 20 years now and yet they still lag behind every suburb in tower development, even ones like mine that fight every tower proposal.

I'm not anti-Surrey, just anti-"we're the centre of the metro" misunderstanding of reality. When there's farms to the east of you, and lots of empty grass lots right next to you, you're not in the centre.

[dighn]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Don't think. I'd like to actually know. I've heard it has sold well. No sell-out over night like you get in some of the towers in Burnaby or Downtown, but those are not the norm and this whole tower sold out in 1 night is a fairly short-lived unique experience to this region. Most buildings need to be on the market for a few years to sell out.

I'd say it's about 85% sold, with mostly the higher priced 2 beds remaining (500k to 600k+, but there are cheaper smaller/non-corner units). The northwest corner 2 beds have all sold though. Still a bunch of 1 beds too, though percentage wise those have sold much better.

I can see how these are harder to sell because at this price point there are a lot of options. I'm tempted though b/c I don't mind calling surrey my home, been living here for 14 years anyway.