Calgary Public Transit II

[fusili]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

All of these are excellent points. I know you are a transit/urban planning guru of sorts and I'm probably going to lose this argument, but what I'm trying to say is. How much longer would it take to go through MRU as opposed to going straight up Crowchild? I think for the BRT to be successful the service from Woodbine to DT needs to be more attractive to an office worker than taking the LRT in the morning.

There are definitely trade-offs, and you make a good point about direct routing. Jarrett Walker of Human Transit makes this point over and over again, and it is a good one. Direct transit routes with limited stops and no weird detours are preferable, but not always possible.

I admit it does increase travel times, but it is a big enough destination to be worth it. With dedicated lanes and limited stops, it will be pretty fast, and I am confident it will be faster than driving or taking the LRT, which involves getting on a feeder bus.

You are right though, that these detours, if not to large enough destinations, really hurt travel times and decrease the efficiency of travel. I'm looking at you 70% of Calgary Transit bus routes.

[outoftheice]

Curious if the SW Transitway Open House included any mention of travel times? How fast will a trip on the transitway be compared to driving downtown or taking a feeder bus and connecting onto the red line?

[fusili]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

I'm a little confused by the routing of the BRT through Currie Barracks. There are no stops there, and I would have thought it would be faster to get back on to Crowchild at the earliest point (Flanders Ave) rather than what they are showing.

There will be stops. Just depends on construction phasing for the development They also have to account for the Flanders Ave interchange construction. I think this portion of the alignment will be fairly fluid as Currie Barracks undergoes development and phases in different roads etc. Eventually Quesnay Wood Drive will accommodate bus lanes (IIRC) through the site.

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by fusili

I admit it does increase travel times, but it is a big enough destination to be worth it. With dedicated lanes and limited stops, it will be pretty fast, and I am confident it will be faster than driving or taking the LRT, which involves getting on a feeder bus.

Makes me wonder how many will use this for Downtown<->south-of-Glenmore vs. feeder+train. Except for the few people in walking distance of the stations (not exactly high density hotspots - today), travelers would need feeder buses to get to BRT anyway. Have to see time comparisons!

Originally Posted by 5seconds

I'm a little confused by the routing of the BRT through Currie Barracks. There are no stops there, and I would have thought it would be faster to get back on to Crowchild at the earliest point (Flanders Ave) rather than what they are showing.

100% speculation, but maybe made "more sense" with the logistics of 33rd Ave station? If the routing used Flanders to enter/exit, then they'd still have to enter/exit at 33rd anyway. (I'm having trouble imagining how staying off of Crowchild actually helps this, but just throwing the idea out there...)

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by fusili

You are right though, that these detours, if not to large enough destinations, really hurt travel times and decrease the efficiency of travel. I'm looking at you 70% of Calgary Transit bus routes.

BAM, right there is a major problem with transit in this city. Tons of overlap in some areas, then weird deviations all over the place after those over-served corridors. Crazy bus system.

Also, Jarrett Walker is the man. Sometimes I wonder if CT bus route planners have read his book, and if so, why they chose to blatantly disregard his advice.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

BAM, right there is a major problem with transit in this city. Tons of overlap in some areas, then weird deviations all over the place after those over-served corridors. Crazy bus system.

Also, Jarrett Walker is the man. Sometimes I wonder if CT bus route planners have read his book, and if so, why they chose to blatantly disregard his advice.

I know a few transit route planners, and most of them are of the same mind. But then we have ridiculous metrics about having to serve every Calgarian with a certain distance to a bus stop, neighbourhood design that isn't transit friendly, political influence when Councillors request route changes because of constituents (vast majority of complaints are seniors- look at any weird deviation to a route and in most cases it is going to a seniors facility) and various other factors that make routes suck. Trust me, transit planners are just as frustrated as you and I.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by fusili

Trust me, transit planners are just as frustrated as you and I.

Thanks for the insight - good to know there is at least the desire to improve the system.

[sim]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

BAM, right there is a major problem with transit in this city. Tons of overlap in some areas, then weird deviations all over the place after those over-served corridors. Crazy bus system.

Also, Jarrett Walker is the man. Sometimes I wonder if CT bus route planners have read his book, and if so, why they chose to blatantly disregard his advice.

I would hope that they've gone a little beyond that book, no offence to that particular book..

The route will also benefit from additional transit signal priority.

There will be a stop at Currie Barracks.

[UofC.engineer]

I'm not sure if this belongs in the transit thread but I thought it was somewhat interesting:

http://ecofiscal.ca/reports/traffic%20/#&gid=1&pid=1

[DizzyEdge]

I'm curious if CT would have any metrics showing a loss of ridership this past year of low oil prices. We were commenting a year ago that at current rates we'd probably use up the extra capacity from 4 car trains in maybe 5 years, wondering how that looks now.

I find it interesting that the two major capacity-increasing projects on the books, the greenline and the 8th ave subway are likely to be built in the next 30 years, but I don't think there are really any major projects beyond those two even on the books, not in my lifetime anyway, just more minor improvements such as quasi-BRT/express buses. It will be a sad way when those 2 are realized and there's no transit megaprojects to look forward to

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

I'm curious if CT would have any metrics showing a loss of ridership this past year of low oil prices. We were commenting a year ago that at current rates we'd probably use up the extra capacity from 4 car trains in maybe 5 years, wondering how that looks now.

I find it interesting that the two major capacity-increasing projects on the books, the greenline and the 8th ave subway are likely to be built in the next 30 years, but I don't think there are really any major projects beyond those two even on the books, not in my lifetime anyway, just more minor improvements such as quasi-BRT/express buses. It will be a sad way when those 2 are realized and there's no transit megaprojects to look forward to

Although I love a transit mega-project as much as the next guy, there are some less glitzy things CT can work on that would be equally as beneficial to Calgary

If CT ever developed a mainline bus network that would be huge for transit ridership. Following the route ahead methodology towards all day 10 minute service corridors would drastically affect this city and how people get around. I believe Route 1, 3 and the LRT lines are the only 10-minute maximum, all day services that Calgary Transit has. Developing the Crosstown BRTs to this service quality would be a great idea.

Night buses and increased evening service would also change the transit culture of the city significantly as well. Calgary Transit cultivates a high-level of usage to the university and young-adult crowd, but then abandons them when it comes to their social lives past 6pm as if they stop existing. Extended rush-hour services and improved Friday and Saturday evening service downtown and to Beltline would do wonders.

Anyone familiar with the "last-train problem" where the last train comes over an hour before the bars officially close knows the frustration of the lack of support for late-night culture in this city by CT.

[DizzyEdge]

Very good points. A grid of mainline routes with 10 min or less headways, + night transit would be very transforming. It would really bring the city closer to where you might use transit for most trips by choice rather than necessity.

[fusili]

Thought about this quite a bit a few years ago. Here is a basic idea of what I think would be a good start for a grid:



http://transitcamp.ca/2012/10/04/the-transitcamp-network-plan/

Thoughts?

[*Stardust*]

Originally Posted by fusili

Thought about this quite a bit a few years ago. Here is a basic idea of what I think would be a good start for a grid:



http://transitcamp.ca/2012/10/04/the-transitcamp-network-plan/

Thoughts?

Could those express transit ways be converted into LDT down the road?

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Didn't realize the city added 3 more LRVs to our order for a total of 63. I wonder why the city didn't add 4 to our order and just make it one more full train for a total of 16.


Here is the interior...





and the livery model chosen...

Something is mixed up between these renders, there isn't enough room between the last dooe and the end of the car for the seating shown in the interior render and the operator cab. Either the door has to move or the interior has to change.

[tomthumb2]

One thing I'd like to live long enough to see: the entire downtown line underground! Right now you're humming along until you get to the dt core and then you just sit at every light forever. It's sooooo slow - I usually get out and walk if I can. We must have the lousiest dt transit in Canada.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Something is mixed up between these renders, there isn't enough room between the last dooe and the end of the car for the seating shown in the interior render and the operator cab. Either the door has to move or the interior has to change.

This one lines up better. Source:https://www.siemens.ca/web/portal/en/Pre...ide-next-generation-of-LRT-vehicles.aspx

Also, this pdf has some neat insights into the S200 design and bid process: https://www.siemens.ca/web/portal/en/AboutUs/Trusted-Partner/Documents/CaseStudy-CT_EN_11.pdf

[VIce]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Something is mixed up between these renders, there isn't enough room between the last dooe and the end of the car for the seating shown in the interior render and the operator cab. Either the door has to move or the interior has to change.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by *Stardust*

Could those express transit ways be converted into LDT down the road?

It could. I would think that the "Transitways" or BRT in our plan would be better candidates for LRT (such as the 16th avenue Crosstown or the Heritage Crosstown), but I wouldn't rule it out.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

I'm curious if CT would have any metrics showing a loss of ridership this past year of low oil prices. We were commenting a year ago that at current rates we'd probably use up the extra capacity from 4 car trains in maybe 5 years, wondering how that looks now.

I find it interesting that the two major capacity-increasing projects on the books, the greenline and the 8th ave subway are likely to be built in the next 30 years, but I don't think there are really any major projects beyond those two even on the books, not in my lifetime anyway, just more minor improvements such as quasi-BRT/express buses. It will be a sad way when those 2 are realized and there's no transit megaprojects to look forward to

I think there will always be some major transit project on the books.

LRT from Westbrook to Mount Royal

LRT from Mount Royal to South Line

But let`s worry about securing funding for the green line first, then the 8th ave tunnel. Probably wouldn`t be fully built out until 2030 at the earliest.