DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[lumos]

Thank goodness they have branded it. I had been looking at the wrong building. If there was one building that did not need a name. Any way I love the building and look forward to the Plaza being opened.

By the way, the triangle building in Paris has finally got approval, I think that we need one of these.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Why not? Do you think the tax extension would be better utilized elsewhere?

I'm not a fan of 2A.

I can only guess that Plansit feels the money would be better spent on Denver's aerotropolis which would make a lot of sense.

Student scholarships are outside of the city's core mission and responsibilities IMO.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Seems like the only entity Aurora is popping in the jaw is itself. From the Gaylord debacle to the yet another attempt to build a goddamn racetrack for God knows who, Aurora is doing it right. .

I wouldn't mind if metro Denver had a NASCAR track. Phoenix International Raceway has been operating since 1964 with events in November and March. March is the bigger splash and lots of people come down from Colorado, especially from the Western Slope. They have lots of RV parking. The only question with Aurora/Denver is whether they're not too late to the party.

One thing this area is good at is holding annual events. There's the Phoenix Open golf tournament in February which although not noteworthy does continue to grow. The most noteworthy event is the Barrett-Jackson Collector Car Auction held the end of January which has been a fixture since 1971. Scottsdale also holds an annual Arabian Horse Show, a fixture since 1955. The sports events are the most lucrative of course but these events round out the menu.

I've always thought that Denver could use a couple of nice annual events that have regional or even national appeal.

[navyweaxguy]

Most NASCAR tracks have road courses built in for use with other events. That way they get used more than once or twice a year.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I've always thought that Denver could use a couple of nice annual events that have regional or even national appeal.

Like the Stock Show? That's a regional, if not a national appeal event. Plus it's a bit more unique than cars going in circles.

A golf tournament would be nice. It would give a place for the economic drivers of Denver (aka the rich white folks) to spend more of their abundant, disposable income.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Like the Stock Show? That's a regional, if not a national appeal event. Plus it's a bit more unique than cars going in circles.

A golf tournament would be nice. It would give a place for the economic drivers of Denver (aka the rich white folks) to spend more of their abundant, disposable income.

Yeah, I could have worded that a little better. I like the Stock Show tradition and a new one has potential for possibly making the rodeo or horse show circuit, I'd think. A rodeo would be a hoot. I could even see the millennial crowd liking a rodeo cuz it's unique, something different to do.

Just cuz you and I aren't gear-heads doesn't mean they're not out there in droves. They're everywhere and have been around forever. I would confess to being a "Car Talk" listener - RIP Tom Magliozzi.

[mhays]

In my region, car racing backers tried to get the state to heavily subsidize a track. Their "economic benefit" arguments were either written by morons or intended to sucker morons, probably the latter. Most notably, they talked about filling hotel rooms, but the rooms are already full in the summers. The concept would have been pure sprawl in what's currently forest/rural. I doubt it would have been allowed, let alone subsidized.

As for the Aurora convention plan, they claim to make the pie bigger, which is probably true, but I suspect it would reduce business at Denver's convention center. And a lot of visitors would come to "town" without ever seeing town. Their model would be pretty compelling as being closer to DIA and self-contained, but bad news for anyone but the company itself.

[bunt_q]

Wow, you guys really can't recognize tongue-in-cheek when you see it.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Though this leads to a question I have for you: It seems that the recent developments in Glendale and Aurora concerning the formation of metropolitan districts and how they are treated under TABOR raises all sorts of questions. Challenges to the the voting process seem to necessitate a change to how they are formed in order to make them legally defendable. Are cities going to have to start putting city employees in a trailer for 90 days or so on a site in order to show that the local voters approve of the district under TABOR?

I seriously doubt anything changes. This is only an issue in the formative stages of a District/development, when there aren't any real human voters to work with. Once there are people, it's a non-issue. It also never solves the problem in a commercial district - unless we want to take away the ability for development to tax itself, you have to maintain some mechanism to qualify non-resident voters in a non-residential project. Keep in mind, for all of the complaining about poor businesses not wanting to pay taxes, this is fundamentally a financing mechanism that allows development to tax itself and pay its own way. Is it inequitable that future businesses (or residents) pay more in taxes to finance their own growth? Maybe. But the alternative is for the City and current residents to fund it. It is a fiction to think that developers will pay for it all - in part, that'll get rolled into prices, so we all end up paying. And in part, the competition for development is strong, as are the incentives to subsidize it. Right now being "pro-business" (I'm talking to you, Aurora) means being pro-District. Take that away, and it'll mean direct subsidies paid by current residents. Colorado made a conscious decision to enable, and in some cases require, growth to "pay its own way." This is how we do it.

One possible solution to this specific problem (how to get voters in early Districts and commercial Districts) has been to allow for corporate voting - let the LLC vote, so you don't have to go through the farce of creating eligible voters. Problem is, you can't allow that only part of the time. And for all the complaining you hear now, imagine the outcry if the legislature considers a bill to give corporate entities voting right? Nobody has wanted to touch that with a ten foot pole. The status quo is preferable.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Student scholarships are outside of the city's core mission and responsibilities IMO.

I agree with this and voted against. Not the City's job.

The deal with Adam's County seems like a no-brainer.

I'm a big fan of 2C too. Love me some stock show. And parks. And convention centers. Comic Con is getting too crowded - pop the top on that thing!

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I could even see the millennial crowd liking a rodeo cuz it's unique, something different to do.

I love the rodeo. Most of my urban liberal millennial friends do not, though. It's representative of rural conservative culture, which they abhor. And it is cruel to animals.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Wow, you guys really can't recognize tongue-in-cheek when you see it.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by mhays

In my region, car racing backers tried to get the state to heavily subsidize a track. Their "economic benefit" arguments were either written by morons or intended to sucker morons, probably the latter. Most notably, they talked about filling hotel rooms, but the rooms are already full in the summers. The concept would have been pure sprawl in what's currently forest/rural. I doubt it would have been allowed, let alone subsidized.

Well I guess Y'all will have to settle for hosting 2 of the 3 richest in 'merica. Still, Omaha stands like a beacon of light in the night, no?

You suppose there's any connection between Jeff Bezos now owning the Washington Post and that often being the first link offered in Google News?

Originally Posted by mhays

As for the Aurora convention plan, they claim to make the pie bigger, which is probably true, but I suspect it would reduce business at Denver's convention center. And a lot of visitors would come to "town" without ever seeing town. Their model would be pretty compelling as being closer to DIA and self-contained, but bad news for anyone but the company itself.

I've always taken the opposite side in this debate. Gaylord's highly unique resort hotel has only four locations, one between Dallas and Fort Worth, in Nashville (the original), in Kissimmee, FL. and in National Harbor, Washington, D.C. They have a unique, south and eastern clientele that should be additive to Denver's pie. For the many who have never been to Denver it could be great exposure and lead to more tourism and even convention business downtown. Many visiting for the first time may extend their trip to check out the Rockies or even downtown Denver.

The real competition for downtown will come from Denver's own new 500-room Westin Hotel attached to the south end of DIA's terminal.
Now that Anschutz owns The Broadmoor Resort Hotel in Colorado Springs I could see why he might have some concerns.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

How 'bout:

Or maybe

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Yeah, I could have worded that a little better. I like the Stock Show tradition and a new one has potential for possibly making the rodeo or horse show circuit, I'd think. A rodeo would be a hoot. I could even see the millennial crowd liking a rodeo cuz it's unique, something different to do.

Just cuz you and I aren't gear-heads doesn't mean they're not out there in droves. They're everywhere and have been around forever. I would confess to being a "Car Talk" listener - RIP Tom Magliozzi.

Huh? There already is a rodeo--many of them--for like 100 years. http://nationalwestern.com/rodeos/

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by denverinfill

huh? There already is a rodeo--many of them--for like 100 years. http://nationalwestern.com/rodeos/

lol.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Huh? There already is a rodeo--many of them--for like 100 years. http://nationalwestern.com/rodeos/

Do they look anything like this?

Ah yes, I knew that. Got caught by my imprecise wording again as I really meant a rodeo event that would come through town that's NOT a part of the Stock Show in January, like over the summer of fall maybe.

[TakeFive]

Molly Armbrister, Denver Business Journal has news and a rendering for the Catalyst health-tech campus in RiNo. The 1st phase is projected to be completed 3rd quarter of 2017.

Nice looking rendering.

[TakeFive]

Denver back at No. 1 for home-resale price gains
according to Mark Harden, Denver Business Journal upon the release of the Case-Shiller Home Prices Index report.

I happen to catch Betty Liu's interview of Prof. Robert Shiller on Bloomberg tee vee. They discuss both housing and the economy and if you've never watched Shiller he's a hoot.

Bottom Line: With respect to the economy right now it's like the blind leading the blind. Nobody knows where it's going. Those that claim to know have an agenda.

Big Boy Playground
A bunch of Denver apartments are under contract as Sam Zell's Equity Residential unloads 23,262 units to Barry Sternlicht’s Starwood Capital Group for $5.4 billion. Ross Larsen, Bloomberg Business has the story which is quite interesting if you like this sort of thing.

[Scottk]

looks like they jumped the crane at 1401 lawrence. anyone know what floor they are on?

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by Scottk

looks like they jumped the crane at 1401 lawrence. anyone know what floor they are on?

I counted the other day. I think they are on like 15 or 16? Idk. It takes me 45 minutes to get downtown (only 6 miles away) so naturally, I haven't been down there much lately /rage

[seventwenty]

Defects ordinance set to pass Denver city counsel in November: http://m.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/cap...uncil-panel-overwhelmingly-supports.html

[Denver Dweller]

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/r...BElKTwGoSbqOBYu5F%2FO7W7Amf&t=1445987326