PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Urbana

As much as I love downtown, it is not appropriate for a company that will be involved so heavily in R&D.

Do you know if they are relocating R&D to the City of Pittsburgh or if that will remain in Westmoreland County? R&D units are often not at the same location as corporate HQs.

For example...

https://www.alcoa.com/locations/usa_alcoa_center/en/home.asp

[Evergrey]

Conde Nast on East Liberty's Ace

http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2015-10-15/the-ace-hotel-pittsburgh-is-now-taking-reservations

The Ace Hotel Pittsburgh Is Now Taking Reservations


Written by Lilit Marcus October 15, 2015



The Ace, the uber-cool hotel brand with properties in New York City, Palm Springs, and Portland Ace Hotel Downtown Los Angeles, opens its highly-anticipated Pittsburgh location on December 10—and they're taking reservations beginning today. The hotel is located inside a former YMCA in the emerging East Liberty neighborhood, and the food program is overseen by native Pittsburgher Brent Young, owner of Brooklyn's trendy Meat Hook butcher shop.

The Ace is bringing much more than a hotel to Pittsburgh—it's also bringing a highly coveted endorsement. The brand's particular cool (think artisanal coffee, industrial chic design, and an army of well-heeled freelancers hanging with their laptops in the lobby) is a sort of shorthand that says "this place is worth checking out." And the Ace team isn't just paying lip service. "We love Pittsburgh," Kelly Sawdon, the company's chief brand officer, told Condé Nast Traveler. "Its physical beauty and industrial heritage, its rich history, architecture and singular fandom stand alongside thriving realms of technology, arts and culture. To us, Pittsburgh is a kindred spirit. We're humbled and excited to be working together, to build long lasting friends and collaborators in this city."

...

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I always find it curious how the local newspapers refer to the Federal Reserve Fourth District (based in Cleveland) as "the Pittsburgh region".

The Pittsburgh region makes up only a fraction of the Fourth District, which includes the entirety of Ohio as well as portions of KY and WV. If anything, the Fourth District's construction/economic metrics are going to closely parallel the state of Ohio, which makes up roughly 2/3 of the District's population.

RIP, Pittsburgh Federal Reserve. Also, RIP Pittsburgh Stock Exchange.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Conde Nast on East Liberty's Ace

http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2015-10-15/the-ace-hotel-pittsburgh-is-now-taking-reservations

Sounds like an awesome hotel.

[dfiler]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I thought about this more overnight, and here are the basic issues I have with turning East Liberty into a major office nexus (or really anywhere outside of Downtown/Oakland within the city).

First, people often choose their living space based upon a short commute. This is probably more true for apartments than houses, as an apartment is almost always a short-term commitment. In contrast, people much less frequently have the ability to choose a job based upon having a short commute. Indeed, in many cases when a new office opens up, it is not a startup or a new branch, but a relocation within a metro area - which will obviously bring people with it who work all across the region.

Related to this, while East Liberty is a convenient location (especially via transit) for a large proportion of the East End, it is not for other parts of the metro - or even the city. Utilizing the transit system in these cases would often require a transfer in Downtown, which is enough of a hassle in terms of timing that few people who have cars would choose to ride rather than drive. Hence the transit utilization of any East Liberty office building will be by definition lower than in Downtown or Oakland. Since a significant portion of people will drive to work anyway, putting it immediately adjacent to a busway station will lead to less transit utilization than if an apartment was placed on the same parcel.

The bottom line is cities with polycentric job patterns are generally bad for transit planning. The more jobs that sprawl out of Greater Downtown and Oakland - even if into walkable areas like South Side or East Liberty - the less capable the transit system will be to actually get workers to their place of employment.

I'm thinking the exact opposite. More office space located next to a transit center will result in higher transit use. Well functioning cities tend to have multiple commercial districts, providing multiple areas within the city with local jobs. The key is that each of commercial districts is big enough and dense enough to justify transit infrastructure and service. In my opinion, East Liberty more than meets that criteria.

Over-centralization of jobs and segregation of residential, retail and business is what landed much of the country in a highway commuting nightmare. Mixing residential and commercial in dense neighborhoods seems to be a hallmark of livable cities worldwide. It results in vibrant neighborhoods with everything right at arm's reach. You can walk out your door and go to work, to a restaurant, to a store, or hop on transit to another area of the city. Yes, please bring more office space into the mix.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Conde Nast on East Liberty's Ace

With no irony intended--I love it when a Pittsburgh brand can piggyback on another brand like this. Home Depot to Whole Foods (crazy owner notwithstanding) to Google to Ace Hotel . . . East Liberty keeps climbing the ladder.

[Urbana]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Do you know if they are relocating R&D to the City of Pittsburgh or if that will remain in Westmoreland County? R&D units are often not at the same location as corporate HQs.

For example...

https://www.alcoa.com/locations/usa_alcoa_center/en/home.asp

Now that you mention it, I am not sure. I suppose I assumed they would be moving their whole operation because they discuss wanting to attract young technical talent.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by dfiler

Over-centralization of jobs and segregation of residential, retail and business is what landed much of the country in a highway commuting nightmare. Mixing residential and commercial in dense neighborhoods seems to be a hallmark of livable cities worldwide. It results in vibrant neighborhoods with everything right at arm's reach. You can walk out your door and go to work, to a restaurant, to a store, or hop on transit to another area of the city. Yes, please bring more office space into the mix.

Very well said.

I also really think well-connected city neighborhoods like this tend to be more complements than substitutes, meaning more people working in East Liberty will ultimately mean more, not less, people working in Downtown and Oakland (as an aside, that is also why as a Wilkinsburg partisan I am happy to see Downtown, Oakland, East Liberty and so on thriving--I think in the long run, that is very likely to add not subtract to potential demand for Wilkinsburg redevelopment, because one of the fundamental things Wilkinsburg has going for it is good connections to those other areas).

So in my mind it is not really a question of whether there should be more office in East Liberty OR Downtown--we should be doing both, and likely the more we do in one place the more we will be able to do in the other.

Of course some place somewhere has to be a loser in all this--but the ultimate loser may be a greenfield in Butler County, or in New Jersey, or even in China. The assumption it will be Downtown or Oakland seems to me to misunderstand exactly how and why cities work to attract employers.

[PITairport]

PITTSBURGH (KDKA) — After more than 70 years — Kennametal is leaving Westmoreland County and KDKA can confirm advanced discussions with state, city and county officials about building a new world headquarters at the Almono — the razed LTV site in Hazelwood

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/10/15/kennametal-moving/

[BrianTH]

Some bitterness in that article from Westmoreland officials, but Kennametal makes it clear they want to be in a real city:

Kennametal Chairman Bill Newlin says the company is looking for cultural amenities, quick access to a major airport and a pool of ready university graduates that Pittsburgh can provide and that Westmoreland County cannot.

City locations are not necessary for every sort of business function, but that bit about where recent university grads want to work these days is pretty fundamental.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Some bitterness in that article from Westmoreland officials, but Kennametal makes it clear they want to be in a real city:



City locations are not necessary for every sort of business function, but that bit about where recent university grads want to work these days is pretty fundamental.

If you want bitterness, you should read the single comment to the article that's been posted. Some 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 obviously from Latrobe who seems to be 🞵🞵🞵🞵-hurt that his personal commute is going to be impacted. As if that means a damned thing.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[AaronPGH]

Originally Posted by glowrock

If you want bitterness, you should read the single comment to the article that's been posted.

Aaron (Glowrock)

After posting, he needed a towel to clean the spit off of his screen.

[Evergrey]

a rendering of the rooftop of The Pittsburgher



http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/pr...to-roots-with-the-pittsburgher-name.html

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Some bitterness in that article from Westmoreland officials, but Kennametal makes it clear they want to be in a real city:


City locations are not necessary for every sort of business function, but that bit about where recent university grads want to work these days is pretty fundamental.

Even if you have older suburban workers, a city location if often a better choice because of it's central location with respect to all the suburbs. If you pick a suburb, you're automatically cutting off half of the potential workforce because they live in the opposite direction from the city. If you're located in Moon, no one from Natrona or Monroeville is going to fight their way over there every morning.

Sometimes I think that the city of Pittsburgh benefits from not having a beltway as it makes it hard to get from one suburban radius to another without going through the city.

[Wiz Khalifa]

Originally Posted by GeneW

I've waited as long as 20 minutes for a P1 at Steel Plaza and yes that combination involves three walks; one at either end and one in the middle. It's actually marginally faster to take the 16 and 77 combination than the T/P1 even though it doesn't use the busway.

Have you tried biking between stations instead of walking? I think that would save you a lot of time.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I think we need to view this very long term--the development pattern in East Liberty will likely last for many decades, and in that time there will be more than enough cycling of East Liberty workers to allow people to move to places with convenient access to East Liberty.

This may be true. But nearly everywhere with convenient access to East Liberty also has access to Downtown/Oakland which is nearly as convenient - particularly given the East Busway connects all of these areas together. At most East Liberty shaves perhaps 10 minutes off a potential transit-based commute.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

So first, I am actually not at all sure that transit access is better to Oakland specifically, versus Downtown. Oakland as yet has no actual rapid transit link, and is therefore a pain to get to from much of the transit footprint. [Edit: by the way, it is not just parts of the East End of the City that has better transit access to East Liberty--it is a big portion of the overall transit system extending out into the suburbs.]

I think you're forgetting the P3 here. Yes, it dumps onto surface streets blocks too early in Oakland, but it allows all the communities which are on the East Busway's route to have quicker access to Oakland than surface routes would allow.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Second, I think this argument proves too much. No doubt Downtown is the best single place for transit access in the metro area, but not every single new office unit to come over the next couple decades can be located in Downtown--there is not enough vacant land, and Downtown would be too expensive anyway for many possible employers. So, there will in fact be lots of new office space being built outside of Downtown in coming years.

By building office space outside of Downtown (and I'm including here "Greater Downtown" areas like the North Shore, Lower Strip, and Civic Arena site) you are by definition reducing demand somewhat for Downtown office space. This might be a great thing for those employers, as they have cheaper options. It doesn't mean it's by definition the best outcome for the city at large though.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

And once you start thinking about locations other than Downtown to build new office space, then Downtown East Liberty starts looking as good or better than most possible locations from a transit perspective.

I'll admit it's better than most. I think it's way better than say South Side Works - I think the office park element of it was very ill-founded. Certainly it's better than the suburbs. I still think East Liberty is better off as being a dense residential + retail locus rather than a major employment locus.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Undoubtedly some of the people living in East Liberty apartments are also going to drive to work rather than take transit.

Yes. I think one of the biggest flaws in the TOD apartment complex was the decision not to reduce the parking minimums for the apartments. By providing every unit with parking, you effectively turn busway access into an added perk to a wide repertoire of other amenities, not an essential part of the package for car-free or "car-light" households.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

And again, I would suggest you also have to factor in walking and biking commutes--which some of the East Liberty apartment dwellers could have if there were more office space in East Liberty.

From an urban planning perspective, walking and biking commutes are great. I bike to work myself much of the year. But from planning a transit system with high farebox recovery, they cause just as much of an issue with lost revenue as driving does.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

That seems inaccurate to me. The highest transit usage in the United States by far is in the NYC/NJ area, and there are many, many different job centers within that area, with the major ones typically having their own transit nodes. Next I believe is the Bay Area--same deal. A close third would be the DC area--same deal again.

These areas have high transit utilization almost entirely due to their core areas, and to a lesser extent major satellite cities. Suburb-to-suburb commutes cannot be serviced by transit in any real way. I know people who live in Northern New Jersey who talk about the "gridlock everywhere" issue, because every single borough decided it needed its own office parks and industrial parks for tax revenue, meaning people have no choice but to drive, so everyone at 5-6 is trying to get from one random employment location to another random residence. Obviously the issue with secondary employment nodes within a core city isn't as dramatic, because usable transit options exist for many people. But East Liberty is really only convenient to the East End, not all of Pittsburgh, meaning by definition it's drawing from a smaller pool.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by dfiler

I'm thinking the exact opposite. More office space located next to a transit center will result in higher transit use. Well functioning cities tend to have multiple commercial districts, providing multiple areas within the city with local jobs. The key is that each of commercial districts is big enough and dense enough to justify transit infrastructure and service. In my opinion, East Liberty more than meets that criteria.

Over-centralization of jobs and segregation of residential, retail and business is what landed much of the country in a highway commuting nightmare. Mixing residential and commercial in dense neighborhoods seems to be a hallmark of livable cities worldwide. It results in vibrant neighborhoods with everything right at arm's reach. You can walk out your door and go to work, to a restaurant, to a store, or hop on transit to another area of the city. Yes, please bring more office space into the mix.

IMHO there's a difference between a commercial district (meaning retail) and an office district. I am 100% behind East Liberty having denser commerce. I simply don't think having a major office component to development is a plus there.

It is true that historically city employment was much more decentralized. But one should keep in mind that in those days, most jobs did not require specialized educational training. Why get a job at a mill in another neighborhood if there was one you could walk to which paid the same rate? Even if you had a white-collar job, many required little more than a high school education, meaning you had tons of options close to home. The hyper-specialization of modern day employment, in contrast, means that you're pretty much assured if you have a job which requires a graduate degree you can't limit your job search to your immediate neighborhood, even if it has pretty sizable job concentration.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Even if you have older suburban workers, a city location if often a better choice because of it's central location with respect to all the suburbs. If you pick a suburb, you're automatically cutting off half of the potential workforce because they live in the opposite direction from the city. If you're located in Moon, no one from Natrona or Monroeville is going to fight their way over there every morning.

Indeed. It really all depends on the nature of your potential labor pool. You can put a McDonald's almost anywhere because there are likely to be plenty of possible workers anywhere you would also have plenty of customers.

But if you are instead trying to recruit relatively specialized workers who might not be in sufficient supply in any given small area, you have an incentive to locate somewhere convenient to a sufficiently large recruiting area. And if your recruiting area needs to be as big as something like the urban area or the metro area, then you have an incentive to locate in the core area.

Sometimes I think that the city of Pittsburgh benefits from not having a beltway as it makes it hard to get from one suburban radius to another without going through the city.

Indeed, although a lot of that ends up being illusory in the long run--development along the Beltway typically continues until it is congested, and workers then just end up with very long commutes anyway. So then at tremendous expense you expand the Beltway--and a few years later it is congested again.

The basic problem here is highway lanes have relatively low peak capacity, so are really just the wrong technology for trying to serve large numbers of rush-hour commuters. But because there can be an early period where new development has not yet created congestion, it can create the impression it is actually working. And in addition to all the normal politics and special interests behind road-building, by the time you get to congestion, you have created a whole bunch of stakeholders clamoring for a return to that brief Golden Era.

So yes--it is a good thing Pittsburgh largely avoided all that as far as Beltways are concerned, although it didn't avoid the similar dynamic involving radial urban highways.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Wiz Khalifa

Have you tried biking between stations instead of walking? I think that would save you a lot of time.

Yeah, I would think you could bike from most of the North Side to Penn Station plenty fast enough to put together a 25 minute total trip or less (again perhaps with help from real time tracking).

[JVC]

every successful, well-liked neighborhood in the city has a park for residents, workers and visitors to enjoy