Canada Election 2015

[TorontoDrew]

Alright NDP voters, time to consider voting for the Liberals if you truly want to get rid of Harper.

[*Stardust*]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Alright NDP voters, time to consider voting for the Liberals if you truly want to get rid of Harper.

I have given up the NDP dream (until next election) so I will be voting Liberal, since in my riding it looks like the Libs just might win for the first time ever.

In my heart I am an NDPer but I know that vote splitting is dangerous.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by Migs

I as well, mostly because of the RCMP CSIS & our governments proactive approach to keeping this country safe.

You do realize that it's been our foreign policy that has made us a target in the first place right? And ya what a great job they are doing when "Terrorists" attacks have been done by homegrown men with no ties to the middle east. Shooting soldiers standing guard at monuments running down men in uniform in the streets. Yup CSIS, the RCMP, and Harper have made Canada a much safer place to live.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Today's Mop & Pail has a piece about the Harper PMO putting a halt to the processing of certain Syrian refugee applications for several weeks, apparently so that it could scrutinize applications itself. Chris Alexander's office is quoted as saying that the "government" (i.e. PM Harper) wanted to ensure the integrity of the system and that security was not compromised.

The comment from Chris Alexander's office would indicate that the article is factually accurate.

I would be curious to know how Conservative partisans in the forum react to something like this.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nati...t-to-refugee-processing/article26713562/

The PMO operates at the highest level of leadership in Canada and thus are responsible and accountable for the performance of all departments.

Whether you are concerned about terrorism or not, Canadians across the country are concerned as ISIS has made repeated threats to us and to Canada specifically.

ISIS has infiltrated Canada on Twitter, Facebook, and other avenues, we already have several documented cases of Canadians leaving to ISIS territory to fight with them.

That's just a fact.

If there were any problems, or any issues with immigration from Syria, who would be blamed? The immigration department? Do you think if there were one or two cases of refugee gunman coming from Syria that killed Canadians we'd all point fingers at the immigration department and Harper would escape all blame?

No, we'd all be pointing the fingers at Harper and blaming him for the deficiencies and problems with the immigration/refugee process. It is his fault as the leader and accountable person in charge of making sure the immigration/refugee department is doing it's job.

Sometimes mock outraged reporting about each and every thing the PMO office possibly does sounds more like throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks to, as rousseau so elegantly put, massage a biased message into partisan fury.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

You do realize that it's been our foreign policy that has made us a target in the first place right? And ya what a great job they are doing when "Terrorists" attacks have been done by homegrown men with no ties to the middle east. Shooting soldiers standing guard at monuments running down men in uniform in the streets. Yup CSIS, the RCMP, and Harper have made Canada a much safer place to live.

Dead wrong. Our prominent religion of Christianity & our way of life that has made us a target.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by Migs

Dead wrong. It's prominent religion & our way of life that has made us a target.

I think it's a mix of both, and regardless even if terrorists are terrorizing other regions, do people really think Canada should just butt out and not get involved?

Canada has the incidental safety of natural borders. We live in a cushy bubble that has no land connection to any form of terrorism in the middle east. We can all stick our fingers in our ears and say terrorism doesn't exist and we don't care if ISIS takes over the middle east because, hey, not our problem!

Do you also think we should not have been involved in WW2? Do you also think Truman's policy of containment was fool hardy and we should have just let the Soviet Union take over the entire world?

Yes, the concept of blowback is real. We bomb our enemies, they use it as a propaganda tool against us. That doesn't mean we should do nothing at anytime when people of the world around us are under attack.

[flar]

Originally Posted by geotag277

The PMO operates at the highest level of leadership in Canada and thus are responsible and accountable for the performance of all departments.

Whether you are concerned about terrorism or not, Canadians across the country are concerned as ISIS has made repeated threats to us and to Canada specifically.

ISIS has infiltrated Canada on Twitter, Facebook, and other avenues, we already have several documented cases of Canadians leaving to ISIS territory to fight with them.

That's just a fact.

If there were any problems, or any issues with immigration from Syria, who would be blamed? The immigration department? Do you think if there were one or two cases of refugee gunman coming from Syria that killed Canadians we'd all point fingers at the immigration department and Harper would escape all blame?

No, we'd all be pointing the fingers at Harper and blaming him for the deficiencies and problems with the immigration/refugee process. It is his fault as the leader and accountable person in charge of making sure the immigration/refugee department is doing it's job.

Sometimes mock outraged reporting about each and every thing the PMO office possibly does sounds more like throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks to, as rousseau so elegantly put, massage a biased message into partisan fury.

Again, you're embarrassing yourself talking about something you know nothing about. You completely fail to grasp the seriousness of this. I say this without any partisanship whatsoever. But unfortunately I have to excuse myself from this area of discussion.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Alright NDP voters, time to consider voting for the Liberals if you truly want to get rid of Harper.

It'll be very interesting to see how NDP supporters vote as there are substantial differences in their platforms. I'm personally glad the polls are still extremely tight between the Libs & Conservatives because then right leaning voters won't make the mistake of being complacent & not bother voting b/c they just assume Harper will win.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by flar

Again, you're embarrassing yourself talking about something you know nothing about. You completely fail to grasp the seriousness of this. I say this without any partisanship whatsoever. But unfortunately I have to excuse myself from this area of discussion.

If you can't explain yourself, maybe stop calling people names and bow out of the conversation before you attack someone. I'm here to have a conversation.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I'm with you on this issue vid. We both live in cities with large aboriginal populations so we actually interact with actual indigenous people.

I live by a reserve that's doing great and have business dealing with them daily. From here, I don't see where you're coming from.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by geotag277

Sometimes mock outraged reporting about each and every thing the PMO office possibly does sounds more like throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks to, as rousseau so elegantly put, massage a biased message into partisan fury.

I just read the G&M piece. Only a partisan right wing nut would call that "mock outraged reporting." It's a story about the prime minister of this country intervening in the immigration process. In other words: "news."

From the article:

The Prime Minister’s Office directed Canadian immigration officials to stop processing one of the most vulnerable classes of Syrian refugees this spring and declared that all UN-referred refugees would require approval from the Prime Minister, a decision that halted a critical aspect of Canada’s response to a global crisis.

Are you suggesting that the news media should ignore it when the government acts in unusual ways? What part of that article is not factual, or relevant, or newsworthy?

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Are you suggesting that the news media should ignore it when the government acts in unusual ways? What part of that article is not factual, or relevant, or newsworthy?

Are you implying I don't want the media to exist and report on the government? That is absurd. No, I'm simply saying that people are using that article in this thread to massage a biased partisan message into fury.

Nothing in the article itself I have a problem with.

Maybe don't assume the guy you are talking with takes an absurd extremist position. It might help the conversation a bit.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by geotag277

Nothing in the article itself I have a problem with.

You called it "mock outraged reporting."

Originally Posted by geotag277

Sometimes mock outraged reporting about each and every thing the PMO office possibly does sounds more like throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks to, as rousseau so elegantly put, massage a biased message into partisan fury.

The prime minister's office interfering with and micro-managing the immigration department is disturbing and typical of Harper's dictatorial style. It's just yet another in a long laundry list of awful things he's done to this country, and further confirmation that he needs to be kicked out.

The outrage at what Harper has done isn't fake. Though the fact that more Canadians aren't angry at Harper for turning Canada into place "you won't recognize" when he gets through with it is indeed outrageous.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by rousseau

You called it "mock outraged reporting."

The prime minister's office interfering with and micro-managing the immigration department is disturbing and typical of Harper's dictatorial style. It's just yet another in a long laundry list of awful things he's done to this country, and further confirmation that he needs to be kicked out.

The outrage at what Harper has done isn't fake. Though the fact that more Canadians aren't angry at Harper for turning Canada into place "you won't recognize" when he gets through with it is indeed outrageous.

Very ironic this type of rhetoric coming from you who just recently lambasted conservatives for massaged biased messages into fury.

Regardless, let's take a step back. If a Syrian refugee turned into a Canadian serial killer, who would be blamed? Do you honestly believe that no one would blame the PMO/Harper for that happening under his watch as leader of the country?

If you have the sense to recognize that Harper would indeed be blamed in part for that failure, you can recognize the motivation for the PMO to be involved in ensuring the screening process for refugees is sound.

The article alludes to a litany of other issues, including privacy concerns. If there were privacy concerns and the PMO broke the law, of course they should be held accountable.

But the PMO simply getting involved in a sensitive immigration/refugee issue does not ipso facto justify the kind of partisan rage being demonstrated in this thread. It is exactly the kind of BS that you talked about in Sun news comments.

[flipv]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

You do realize that it's been our foreign policy that has made us a target in the first place right? And ya what a great job they are doing when "Terrorists" attacks have been done by homegrown men with no ties to the middle east. Shooting soldiers standing guard at monuments running down men in uniform in the streets. Yup CSIS, the RCMP, and Harper have made Canada a much safer place to live.

Yup.. blindly following the USA in most misguided geopolitical adventures has made Canada a target.

There was a time we got involved for humanitarian reasons, not to willfully impose global hegemony. The writings are on the wall. When superpowers go into other countries to impose their values and way of life (which is incompatible with the local culture) - they will not only create enemies, but destroy the very fabric of that country's society.

Every single adventure the USA has been in since the end of the Cold War has resulted in failed states, terrorists, and extremists.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by geotag277

But the PMO simply getting involved in a sensitive immigration/refugee issue does not ipso facto justify the kind of partisan rage being demonstrated in this thread. It is exactly the kind of BS that you talked about in Sun news comments.

It's not "simply getting involved", it's "entirely taking over". Why should anybody in the PMO be involved in approving refugee claims? What training do they have?

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by geotag277

Very ironic this type of rhetoric coming from you who just recently lambasted conservatives for massaged biased messages into fury.

There's this idea on the right that there has to be equivalence between left and right, that the extremes on both sides are mirror opposites to each other, that "we both have whackos."

It's not true, of course. Among other things, the right-wing weep crocodile tears for percentage point increases in taxes on the wealthy, and feel deeply aggrieved at aspersions cast at CEOs and other "one-percenters," because they've had their xenophobic fears of "creeping socialism" and other feverish imaginings massaged by their master manipulators. Yes, there are some intelligent people on the right, but they aren't the base.

And certainly, there are people on the left side (mostly centre-left, a very large constituency in Canada) of the aisle who aren't very bright, and simply follow along with what their social groups do. They would sound muddled during an impromptu interview on the street, no question. But the critique of Harper coming from that side of the aisle is grounded in the factual reality of what the PM has done to this country. The full-on assault on science is well-documented, and on its own should be sufficient to turn any rational person against Harper.

You don't have to "massage the message" about Harper's attacks on scientific activity in Canada, because the bare facts of what he has done are outrageous enough, and it's as plain as day that his ideological motivations for muzzling science arise from a standard issue North American broth of religious conservatism mixed with a fetish for the ideal of unfettered markets.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

It's not "simply getting involved", it's "entirely taking over". Why should anybody in the PMO be involved in approving refugee claims? What training do they have?

Entirely taking over is just rhetoric.

Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to recognize and understand systemic problems. The PMO is as much on the line as the Immigration department. Again, if a refugee turned out to be an ISIS serial killer that murdered Canadians, would you not be blaming Harper for the process failure? Honest question.

Again, the PMO's involvement in the refugee program is not an ipso facto reason to rage.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by rousseau

There's this idea on the right that there has to be equivalence between left and right, that the extremes on both sides are mirror opposites to each other, that "we both have whackos."

I entirely agree. Right leaning wackos tend to want things like restriction of gay rights, gay conversion therapy, and other crimes against humanity.

But if your entire defence of your own wacko comments is that "well, your wackos are worse", well, perhaps we should all take a step back and ponder what kind of progress that really entails.

[kiwi]

http://www.strategicvoting.ca/swingdistricts.php


If your an NDP dreamer, vote strategic this election. Depending what riding you live in you still might able to vote for the NDP otherwise vote Liberal for this election.