Canada Election 2015 - Page 124

kwoldtimer · #**2461** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:58 PM**

Today's Mop & Pail has a piece about the Harper PMO putting a halt to the processing of certain Syrian refugee applications for several weeks, apparently so that it could scrutinize applications itself. Chris Alexander's office is quoted as saying that the "government" (i.e. PM Harper) wanted to ensure the integrity of the system and that security was not compromised.

The comment from Chris Alexander's office would indicate that the article is factually accurate.

I would be curious to know how Conservative partisans in the forum react to something like this.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nati...t-to-refugee-processing/article26713562/

Acajack · #**2462** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

Oct. 22nd, 2014. Wasn't that long ago, hasn't even been a year yet!

I suppose that giallo's comment on that would be that Michaël Zehaf-Bibeau was not from "overseas" (aka "the dirt land") as he was born and raised in Canada.

flar · #**2463** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Attaboy Steve

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nati...t-to-refugee-processing/article26713562/

PMO does this kind of thing all the time...it's not good.

lio45 · #**2464** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I suppose that giallo's comment on that would be that Michaël Zehaf-Bibeau was not from "overseas" (aka "the dirt land") as he was born and raised in Canada.

Sure, but it's nonetheless a clear case of a phenomenon totally rooted in the Middle East producing the following result: a jihadi gunman killing a Canadian soldier on Canadian soil.

i.e. in a parallel universe in which the Americans have nuked the entire region from space a few decades ago (turning it into the proverbial "parking lot"), Nathan Cirillo is guaranteed alive now, no ifs and buts about that.

kwoldtimer · #**2465** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by flar

PMO does this kind of thing all the time...it's not good.

You put it very mildly.

Acajack · #**2466** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

Sure, but it's nonetheless a clear case of a phenomenon totally rooted in the Middle East producing the following result: a jihadi gunman killing a Canadian soldier on Canadian soil.

i.e. in a parallel universe in which the Americans have nuked the entire region from space a few decades ago (turning it into the proverbial "parking lot"), Nathan Cirillo is guaranteed alive now, no ifs and buts about that.

Oh my. You had to say it...

giallo · #**2467** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:06 PM**

edit - Acajack addressed it.

travis3000 · #**2468** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:12 PM**

So Nanos still showing a two way race across Canada. Liberals leading the Tories by 2 points nationwide. NDP still in third although recovering a tad to 24%.

Quebec seems to be a wildcard, Nanos showing NDP at #1, Liberals at #2, the Bloq #3, and Conservatives down at 18% in #4. A big difference between them and EKOS who have the Tories at #1 there.

One trend.... Liberals lead Ontario in BOTH Ekos and Nanos, as well as Forum and Abacus. Liberals have also moved into #1 nationwide in the latest Forum poll.

Things continue to change everyday, but we are starting to see some agreement here nationally, with the Liberals and Conservatives battling out for supremacy across the country and the NDP stuck in 3rd.

Acajack · #**2469** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:12 PM**

I'd say the Zehaf-Bibeau and Couture-Rouleau cases are kind of half-and-half.

They were definitely homegrown wackos but they were driven off their rocker by events and movements in the Middle East that inspired them.

Migs · #**2470** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Attaboy Steve

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nati...t-to-refugee-processing/article26713562/

Given that ISIS has repeated stated that they will infiltrate the west through the disguise of refugees (& the fact that 75-80% of the refugees are men) I'm failing to see how the highest level of government ensuring the system is working properly is a bad thing.

That said, I recently spoke with a Christian immigrant from Syria who immigrated here to Canada in 2011 & he told me that Canada's stringent regulations are a good thing. What the hell would he know though.

kwoldtimer · #**2471** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migs

Given that ISIS has repeated stated that they will infiltrate the west through the disguise of refugees (& the fact that 75-80% of the refugees are men) I'm failing to see how the highest level of government ensuring the system is working properly is a bad thing.

That said, I recently spoke with a Christian immigrant from Syria who immigrated here to Canada in 2011 & he told me that Canada's stringent regulations are a good thing. What the hell would he know though.

I thought you might react along those lines. So the fact that the PMO has no competence whatever in the area and that all the expertise is with the responsible department doesn't bother you. Some would see a profound systemic problem in our system of governance that has reached dangerous territory. As with a number of other issues in this campaign, there is a huge gap in perceptions between Harper supporters and Harper opponents. One hopes for a reduction of these divisions in future.

giallo · #**2472** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migs

Given that ISIS has repeated stated that they will infiltrate the west through the disguise of refugees (& the fact that 75-80% of the refugees are men) I'm failing to see how the highest level of government ensuring the system is working properly is a bad thing.

That said, I recently spoke with a Christian immigrant from Syria who immigrated here to Canada in 2011 & he told me that Canada's stringent regulations are a good thing. What the hell would he know though.

ISIS is the modern day bogeyman. Anyone can claim to be ISIS. It has no face, no country, nothing. Anything goes, apparently. The only truly culturally-changing thing ISIS will lead to is your and my rights/privacy being willfully handed away because we're told that ISIS is coming or that they're already here, but we won't know when, where or how because anyone can be ISIS.

Only the age of instant access to information/social media could promote such paranoia.

Migs · #**2473** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by giallo

ISIS is the modern day bogeyman. Anyone can claim to be ISIS. It has no face, no country, nothing. Anything goes, apparently. The only truly culturally-changing thing ISIS will lead to is your and my rights/privacy being willfully handed away because we're told that ISIS is coming or that they're already here, but we won't know when, where or how because anyone can be ISIS.

Only the age of instant access to information/social media could promote such paranoia.

Have you ever asked yourself why you are safe in Canada right now?

Were Canadians paranoid of the Nazi's before WW2? Should Canada have taken the Neville Chamberlain approach or the Winston Churchill approach? People sure seem to forget how we became the country we are today.

flar · #**2474** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

You put it very mildly.

Yeah, and I've already said too much

Migs · #**2475** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I thought you might react along those lines. So the fact that the PMO has no competence whatever in the area and that all the expertise is with the responsible department doesn't bother you. Some would see a profound systemic problem in our system of governance that has reached dangerous territory. As with a number of other issues in this campaign, there is a huge gap in perceptions between Harper supporters and Harper opponents. One hopes for a reduction of these divisions in future.

How do you know the PMO & his close military & intelligence advisors have no competence in this area? Be thankful there haven't been many terrorist attacks in the country, perhaps it could be that the proactive approach is working. (Ie Toronto 18 plot)

Migs · #**2476** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Oh my. You had to say it...

Look how prosperous, safe, & efficient Japan is today.

giallo · #**2477** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migs

Have you ever asked yourself why you are safe in Canada right now?

Were Canadians paranoid of the Nazi's before WW2? Should Canada have taken the Neville Chamberlain approach or the Winston Churchill approach? People sure seem to forget how we became the country we are today.

But Nazi Germany wasn't this (almost) existential threat to Canada. It was a country that had strong leadership, and a large, obedient population behind it. ISIS is whatever it wants to be because anyone can claim it. It exists in Canada through Facebook, tweets and, as we saw almost a year ago, through mentally unstable Canadian citizens.

How do fight this thing without seriously damaging your own country in the process?

Migs · #**2478** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 3:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by giallo

But Nazi Germany wasn't this (almost) existential threat to Canada. It was a country that had strong leadership, and a large, obedient population behind it. ISIS is whatever it wants to be because anyone can claim it. It exists in Canada through Facebook, tweets and, as we saw almost a year ago, through mentally unstable Canadian citizens.

How do fight this thing without seriously damaging your own country in the process?

You fight it over there where they are centrally located (in Iraq & Syria) before you have to fight it over here. The west made a huge mistake when they underestimated them a year ago, I believe Obama called them the JV team.

flar · #**2479** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 3:26 PM**

I wake up every day and go about my business with absolutely zero worry about terrorism. I have 100% confidence in our current laws and law enforcement to keep us safe.

Strangely enough, last year when we had the terrorist attack (which our law enforcement handled very well, btw), the anxiety and concern seemed to be inversely related to distance from the attack. My office was in lockdown, and none of us were all that worried. Meanwhile, relatives back home were only exposed to the hype on the news and were calling all anxious and worried about our safety like it was 9/11 all over again.

Migs · #**2480** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 3:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by flar

I wake up every day and go about my business with absolutely zero worry about terrorism. I have 100% confidence in our current laws and law enforcement to keep us safe.

I as well, mostly because of the RCMP CSIS & our governments proactive approach to keeping this country safe.

Quote:

Strangely enough, last year when we had the terrorist attack (which our law enforcement handled very well, btw), the anxiety and concern seemed to be inversely related to distance from the attack. My office was in lockdown, and none of us were all that worried. Meanwhile, relatives back home were only exposed to the hype on the news and were calling all anxious and worried about our safety like it was 9/11 all over again.

I wonder why all these men are leaving their wives & children behind. Here's a video you won't see on the mainstream media as it doesn't fit the narrative.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/10/...nts-for-leaving-ask-who-will-protect-us/