Canada Election 2015

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Yeah, when the race is quite close, the popular support numbers must be considered in conjunction with the vote distribution in order for it to have much relevance. Just part of the FPTP system.

Especially in this election. The vote distribution is strongly linked to demographics, so the Liberals or the NDP need more actual votes in order to form a government than the Conservatives do. This is mainly because urban ridings are generally much more populous than rural ones. The NDP and Liberals seem to have much more urban support.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by CCF

Liberals, NDP, and Green Party should have collaborated this election to form government and introduce some form of proportional representation.

The vast majority of Canadians do not want the Conservatives in power - it's just a shame that our current system is so flawed that it makes it a likely reality.

I won't argue that, but the same can be said about the other parties as well.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Migs

Racist? What have I said that is racist?

Originally Posted by Migs

The world was a lot safer place after Hiroshima, with Iran on the verge of obtaining a nuclear weapon & obtaining ICBMs from the Russians & their sole purpose is to wipe Isreal off the map, I'd rather that dirt cesspool of a region eat a nuke before our Jewish friends do. Don't even have to actually do it, just let those ISIS goat lovers think there might be a chance it happens. People were afraid of Reagan, that's why his foreign policy worked.

But that wasn't my point in regards to domestic affairs. Are you denying that lefties Suzuki & Gore are really millionaire capitalists? Are you denying that Trudeau was born with a silver spoon in his mouth & still cannot define what middle class is yet claims he is their champion? Are you denying that Mulcairs carbon footprint is atrocious for someone who claims the climate is in peril? I could go on & on.

To me calling everything outside of Israel a dirt cesspool is a pretty racist thing to say. Like writing off hundreds of millions of Arabs as basically bomb fodder.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

To me calling everything outside of Israel a dirt cesspool is a pretty racist thing to say. Like writing off hundreds of millions of Arabs as basically bomb fodder.

It's a dirty cesspool of a region, name one country other than Israel that you'd travel to right now. If it's not a dirty cesspool of a region, why are there hundreds of thousands of refugees risking their lives to leave? It's funny that you call me racist for calling that region exactly what it is when the first time I heard that area referred to it as that was from my friend Ahmed who told me he'd rather die than ever go back.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Procrastinational

I've always found it funny how left wingers preach tolerance, and yet can turn around and be incredibly intolerant and elitist towards other people's views.
I'm not defending Migs here in any way, but quite frankly, branding everyone in Alabama as small minded and racist pretty much brings you down to his level.

At least try to practice what you preach

Totally agreed, IMO O-tac is really every bit as "bad" as Migs (and maybe even worse). They're on diametrically opposed sides of their arguments, but that's it.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Procrastinational

I think you underestimate how "tarnished" the NDP brand is in suburban Vancouver and Toronto (this one in particular is very important to any party's prospects). Not that it's necessarily deserved, but provincial NDP governments have a big impact on people's opinions of the federal NDP, especially since they lack a track record federally.

Both of you have good points, but I would honestly lean towards Procrastinational's side of this argument, mostly because the Liberal brand is widely considered to be closer to the CPC's position on the left-right spectrum.

The further right the centerleft option is in a two-party system, the more votes it'll get.

It's true though that the LPC brand also has significant negative baggage, so I'd think the very optimal scenario would be a merger of the LPC and NPD resulting in a party with a totally new name (no baggage, no provincial versions who could ever tarnish your brand) which would occupy the "Canada's Natural Governing Party" spot, slightly left of center.

That party would never get anything but majorities in Parliament, unless it starts to behave like the PCAA or LPC dynasties (who grew to believe they simply owned the place) then yes maybe then the voters would throw 'em out.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kiwi

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Politics/ID/2676453517/

I'll be clear I'm against tax fraud, but I'm also against importing Americas failed justice system into Canada. The Conservatives want a criminal justice system which consist of mega prisons, additions criminal code offences and mandatory minimums, how many times has Harper added new criminal code offences I can't even think of that many crimes. Again Harper is trying Americanize Canada.

Any (of the major three) party commits to importing Arkansas' landlord/tenant laws into this country (it does involve jail time for failing to pay rent in a timely manner) will not only get my vote, they will get all the votes from my friends, relatives, and acquaintances that I can manage to gather from them, plus lawn signs and balcony signs on my buildings if they want (several are on busy arteries), and I will also be donating the legal maximum to that party's coffers, plus I am sure I'd convince several others I know (landlords) to do the same.

[SignalHillHiker]

Sounds quite... mafia-esque... hmm... lol

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by CCF

Liberals, NDP, and Green Party should have collaborated this election to form government and introduce some form of proportional representation.

The vast majority of Canadians do not want the Conservatives in power - it's just a shame that our current system is so flawed that it makes it a likely reality.

The vast majority of Canadians do not want the Conservatives in power
The vast majority of Canadians do not want the Liberals in power
The vast majority of Canadians do not want the NDP in power

All of these statements are equally true. I bet there are more Liberal supporters than you think that would prefer the Cons to the NDP.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Sounds quite... mafia-esque... hmm... lol

You mean my post just above yours?

Frankly, a total reform of the landlord-tenant laws would be by far THE safest way to buy my vote (it's of course a provincial issue, not a federal one).

I think it could even come matched with stuff like "Quebec is abolished as a province and the territory gets merged into Ontario" and I'd still vote for it in a heartbeat
(And maybe even with "And then everyone has to wear a niqab".)

[SignalHillHiker]

No, I just meant the... give me what I want, and I'll get ya your votes. Bad joke, sorry.

But yeah, some better protections for landlords would be nice. Tenant protections are critical too, in my mind, but the process of getting rid of a problem tenant shouldn't be so tedious.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

Totally agreed, IMO O-tac is really every bit as "bad" as Migs (and maybe even worse). They're on diametrically opposed sides of their arguments, but that's it.

Really? I advocate things on the opposite end of the spectrum akin to nuking the Middle East? I doggedly defend only one political party even when it's to my detriment (Liberals tax bracket benefitting MIGS for example). I profess xenophobic views and constantly create straw man arguments? I borderline sound like that crazy old man at the conservative rally in Missassauga?

Edit: iirc you once described MIGS' dogged defence of the oilsands as him basically saying you could drink oil without harm. I'm not vegan, I drive a car and I certainly don't make claims this ridiculous. Frankly I'm horrified to be compared with someone so brainlessly partisan. I think of myself as being logical enough to be at least open to the possibility of there one day being a Conservative party that isn't insane that I could vote for. In 2006 the Liberals needed to go. Maybe in another 20 years it will be a similar scenario.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

Both of you have good points, but I would honestly lean towards Procrastinational's side of this argument, mostly because the Liberal brand is widely considered to be closer to the CPC's position on the left-right spectrum.

The further right the centerleft option is in a two-party system, the more votes it'll get.

It's true though that the LPC brand also has significant negative baggage, so I'd think the very optimal scenario would be a merger of the LPC and NPD resulting in a party with a totally new name (no baggage, no provincial versions who could ever tarnish your brand) which would occupy the "Canada's Natural Governing Party" spot, slightly left of center.

That party would never get anything but majorities in Parliament, unless it starts to behave like the PCAA or LPC dynasties (who grew to believe they simply owned the place) then yes maybe then the voters would throw 'em out.

I actually like the idea of the two merging and creating a new brand. Just look how much it benefitted the Conservatives.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

You mean my post just above yours?

Frankly, a total reform of the landlord-tenant laws would be by far THE safest way to buy my vote (it's of course a provincial issue, not a federal one).

I think it could even come matched with stuff like "Quebec is abolished as a province and the territory gets merged into Ontario" and I'd still vote for it in a heartbeat
(And maybe even with "And then everyone has to wear a niqab".)

My parents bought a property to rent in Quebec and found out just how terrible it is in that province for landlords. Almost all the power goes to the tenants and they can hold a landlord hostage. Like you said though, that's a provincial issue. No need for jail time though if it simply was changed to be closer to the rules we have in AB.

[CCF]

Originally Posted by lubicon

I won't argue that, but the same can be said about the other parties as well.

You are correct. Poorly worded on my part - I suppose what I am alluding to is that the vast majority of Canadians oppose the Conservatives forming government again and that the majority of Canadians would prefer to see either a Liberal or NDP government. For many, the two are interchangeable and either is a preferred alternative to the Conservatives.

[travis3000]

The NDP announced today they raised over 9 million dollars in the third quarter this year, the most in ANY party's history. Not bad I gotta say.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by travis3000

The NDP announced today they raised over 9 million dollars in the third quarter this year, the most in ANY party's history. Not bad I gotta say.

Insert Union comment from MIGS here.

[travis3000]

http://angusreid.org/election-2015-october/


New Angus Reid poll has Conservatives at 34% , a full seven points ahead of the Liberals and NDP who are tied at 27% a piece. Cons have 40% support in Ontario which would translate into a solid 70-75 seats here. Support is up in Quebec, where a solid 10 seats are likely. While in BC the Cons are closing in the NDP at 33%. With these results, the Tories would likely win 150 to 155 seats.

We now have EKOS, FORUM, and Angus Reid all putting the Tories at 34% while the Libs and NDP remain far behind in the 25-28% range. If this momentum continues, Harper will have his majority. All it takes is another 3-4% support.

[O-tacular]

Aw 🞵🞵🞵🞵! The left really needs to coalesce around either the NDP or the Liberals.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I am a former Conservative supporter who voted for them in 2004, 2006, and 2008, and voted Liberal in 2011 (and am an ABC voter this time around). I know a lot of Conservative supporters, and I find most of them are single issue voters. Most of them are anti-abortion and they are Conservative supporters because they're convinced that party is going to reopen the abortion debate (which they haven't, and are unlikely to do anytime soon). Incidentally one of these people I know was part of the group passing out anti-Trudeau flyers with aborted fetuses on them in Mississauga; when I last talked to her she seemed to simply not care about any other issue, not even Syrian refugees. Most of that group simply doesn't care about any of the other issues facing Canada.

Others support their local Conservative candidate because it's someone they know. Still others support them because of a perception that they are pro-business.

Yes I know some single issue voters like these as well. I know a few of them who are voting ABC this time though.