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  #8741  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2015, 3:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mja View Post
I think it pulls companies headquartered in NJ burbs that may also have offices in CC. They consolidate operations, stay in NJ but are just a hop skip and a jump from CC, and get huge tax breaks.

And again, this is LPT. They get shit done and build actual buildings. This is basically the same model as the Navy Yard but just thrown across the river in Camden. AND they're still working on Comcast's vertical campus in CC. Basically, they're betting on the Philly metro in every possible way.
Exactly. Let's not forget that LPT also bought the land between 19th, 20th, Arch and Cherry Streets in Center City as well. Basically LPT is betting on Center City, the Navy Yard and Camden, and Brandywine has been betting on Center City, University City and Camden.

Basically it's nice to see these huge companies betting on Central locations instead of far out suburban areas.
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  #8742  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2015, 3:19 PM
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If that gets built (and that's still a big if) it'll help fill in the Camden riverfront. It's also much better-looking -- urban -- than that atrocious Subaru HQ being planned over by the Campbell's complex.
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  #8743  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2015, 4:16 PM
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All I have to say. Is when your small satellite city announces a project this big. ONLY GOOD THINGS ARE HAPPENING. I am Pro Philadelphia economic development, and honestly I think the 'ploys' that NJ has been using to bring jobs to Camden is quite absurd. But the truth is, a stronger Camden is a stronger Philadelphia and a stronger region. Do not fret people. Camden WILL NEVER match Philadelphia. But when we think about Philadelphia competing on a GLOBAL SCALE, it only makes sense to think of this area as a region and to have 4 strong business 'centers'.

Center City
University City
Navy Yard
Camden

Maybe Conshochoken if we can improve transit frequency to Center City.

Center City will continue to grow. It will continue to proliferate. If we want to attract global companies though, this city needs a diversity of business centers that are all easily accessibly via transit and that are all connected. Think of each of these centers getting built out and the strength this region will have over DC and Boston. We will carry REAL PULLING power on the East Coast. Balanced development is good development. We are building a foundation for a top three region in the United States. (Now let's just fix PA business taxes like Wolf wants to do and we might even begin to attract companies down from NY).

Last edited by ePlanningPhila; Sep 24, 2015 at 4:30 PM.
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  #8744  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2015, 5:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ePlanningPhila View Post
All I have to say. Is when your small satellite city announces a project this big. ONLY GOOD THINGS ARE HAPPENING. I am Pro Philadelphia economic development, and honestly I think the 'ploys' that NJ has been using to bring jobs to Camden is quite absurd. But the truth is, a stronger Camden is a stronger Philadelphia and a stronger region. Do not fret people. Camden WILL NEVER match Philadelphia. But when we think about Philadelphia competing on a GLOBAL SCALE, it only makes sense to think of this area as a region and to have 4 strong business 'centers'.

Center City
University City
Navy Yard
Camden

Maybe Conshochoken if we can improve transit frequency to Center City.

Center City will continue to grow. It will continue to proliferate. If we want to attract global companies though, this city needs a diversity of business centers that are all easily accessibly via transit and that are all connected. Think of each of these centers getting built out and the strength this region will have over DC and Boston. We will carry REAL PULLING power on the East Coast. Balanced development is good development. We are building a foundation for a top three region in the United States. (Now let's just fix PA business taxes like Wolf wants to do and we might even begin to attract companies down from NY).
Excellent post
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  #8745  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2015, 5:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ePlanningPhila View Post
All I have to say. Is when your small satellite city announces a project this big. ONLY GOOD THINGS ARE HAPPENING. I am Pro Philadelphia economic development, and honestly I think the 'ploys' that NJ has been using to bring jobs to Camden is quite absurd. But the truth is, a stronger Camden is a stronger Philadelphia and a stronger region. Do not fret people. Camden WILL NEVER match Philadelphia. But when we think about Philadelphia competing on a GLOBAL SCALE, it only makes sense to think of this area as a region and to have 4 strong business 'centers'.

Center City
University City
Navy Yard
Camden

Maybe Conshochoken if we can improve transit frequency to Center City.

Center City will continue to grow. It will continue to proliferate. If we want to attract global companies though, this city needs a diversity of business centers that are all easily accessibly via transit and that are all connected. Think of each of these centers getting built out and the strength this region will have over DC and Boston. We will carry REAL PULLING power on the East Coast. Balanced development is good development. We are building a foundation for a top three region in the United States. (Now let's just fix PA business taxes like Wolf wants to do and we might even begin to attract companies down from NY).
A healthy portion of the people reverse-commuting on the Manayunk/Norristown line are already getting off at Conshohocken. It is definitely the most popular stop by far. It would be great to make this service more convenient as Conshy continues to grow as both an attractive place to live and work. I know several people that don't want to live in the city but they don't want a boring suburb either. Conshy is a great compromise for them.
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  #8746  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2015, 5:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BenKatzPhillytoParis View Post
WOW! Really cool. We really are a rowhome city.
. . . . . we are the row house city. Really an outlier, I guess.

Baltimore comes close, but on a significantly smaller scale obviously.

Seems to me another example of how, other than New Orleans, Philadelphia is on many different levels the most non-mainstream city in the US (in my opinion). It just defines itself physically and culturally in a completely unique way compared to most other American / colonial Anglo cities, most of which generally pretty much conform to some regional or national physical and cultural model. But Philly is pretty much it's own model and nothing else is like it.

I think that's why a lot of outside people and companies have a hard time figuring this city out, and why many don't even bother. NY, DC, Chicago, LA, SF, Seattle, and Boston are all part of a more mainstream cluster of big cosmopolitan cities, just as say, the lesser Midwestern and Southern cities cluster into a few large groups. But Philly doesn't fit into any group (nor, I suppose, do, say, Baltimore or Pittsburgh). So it makes more sense to create and market a product targeted to large clusters of similarly-minded cities than to bother with Philly (or, say, NO) where things may have to be approached a bit differently to gain traction.

Not trying to start an off-topic debate here about whether or not Philadelphia is really different. Many may disagree, and obviously none of what I wrote is based on unassailable verifiable evidence, it's just a general sense I have having been to different cities. This town is different, and it is clearly visible in the physical structure - the row houses, the narrow streets, narrow sidewalks, the hybrid inland/coastal siting, etc.

Last edited by Cro Burnham; Sep 24, 2015 at 5:28 PM.
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  #8747  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2015, 5:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mja View Post
I think it could be a net benefit for even just Philly, in the long run. Sure, it might pull some businesses out of Center City, but there's a limit to how much it can pull and it's better for Philly to have Camden be a bustling satellite city than what it is currently.
I totally agree. Jersey City is a good complement to the Financial District. It's like New York's Kowloon, just smaller. Maybe Camden could eventually be like Jersey City. That would be great. Then you could go to Penn's Landing and no longer need to take in the fabulous view of a wide, flat urban wasteland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mja View Post
I think it pulls companies headquartered in NJ burbs that may also have offices in CC. They consolidate operations, stay in NJ but are just a hop skip and a jump from CC, and get huge tax breaks.
It's a great sign that suburban-oriented baby-boomer led companies are finally recognizing that an accessible, centralized urban location is far superior to being secluded in a remote brain-dead wasteland of off-ramps, fast food, and parking lots:

Quote:
. . . . . companies continue to recognize they need to be located in environments and physical structures that can attract and retain high-caliber talent, especially as Baby Boomers retire and firms need to re-populate their workforce, Gattuso said. This is what Liberty intends to provide in Camden as it has done elsewhere.
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...rty-property-trust-1b-campus-camden.html

Hopefully there will be a time in the not-too-far future when people look back and ask "what on earth were those suburban generations thinking in 1950s to early 2000s? - who could bear living/working in such a wasteful, boring way?".

Last edited by Cro Burnham; Sep 24, 2015 at 6:01 PM.
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  #8748  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2015, 5:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 1487 View Post
And two towers? Please. Lets get enough leases to justify ONE.
One is probably a hotel.
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  #8749  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2015, 5:36 PM
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the campus in camden is good news, lets just see what is actually announced and when they claim it will start.
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  #8750  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2015, 5:49 PM
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the campus in camden is good news, lets just see what is actually announced and when they claim it will start.
My guess is it'll be at least ten years before we see more than a couple modest new 5 or 6 story buildings along the waterfront. It's taken the Navy Yard decades to get to the stage it's at and it is still, while cool, a long way from achieving any kind of meaningful urban dynamism.

But this is a great way to get the ball rolling.

I just wish Philly's waterfront group would be as proactive in enticing developers to build on all the vacant public land around Penn's Landing. It seems like the current Waterfront Development Corp is only slightly more aggressive then the lazy, patronage-heavy Penn's Landing Corp was over the prior 40 years.

I don't understand why the current Waterfront Dvlpt Corp can't just start bidding out parcels of land to developers with good track records and development plans right now while the iron is hot. How many more master plans and public input sessions need there be? The process is beyond slow, it's almost interminably frozen.

I mean is anything actually going on? Hammersklavier, do you know?

The biggest obstacle to the development of Penn's Landing seems to be that it is always controlled by these sloth-like patronage-laden public agencies that prefer endless studies and plans to actually facilitating action.
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  #8751  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2015, 5:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Cro Burnham View Post
My guess is it'll be at least ten years before we see more than a couple modest new 5 or 6 story buildings along the waterfront. . . . . .
I take that back:

Quote:
Construction could begin soon on parts of the plan. Liberty would like to break ground during the third quarter of next year and anticipates build out to take the next four to five years. Gattuso said he is already in both early and advanced discussions with tenants that would fill the entire 1.7 million square feet of office space that is planned.
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...rty-property-trust-1b-campus-camden.html
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  #8752  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2015, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
If that gets built (and that's still a big if) it'll help fill in the Camden riverfront. It's also much better-looking -- urban -- than that atrocious Subaru HQ being planned over by the Campbell's complex.
Wow hammer , I don't know about this proposal . The Subaru thing may
create a substantial increase in Camden based jobs ( which is a good thing ) but
from what I have seen , it looks more like a industrial park build , than any noted
increase to the skyline .
Not too long ago there was a proposal to create a big ass complex just north of the
BF bridge , I believe that was suppose to be a high rise " World Trade Center " .
Before that was the " tram " towers for crossing the river ....... Today , this really
neat looking dual build that might give people at Penn's Landing something decent
to look at .
I hope it happens , as I hope something happens at 8th. & Market . I just question my
ability to survive long enough to see either happen .
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  #8753  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2015, 9:59 PM
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Up date on camden

Channel 6 news just ran a story about the waterfront project in Camden .
Big meeting in Trenton confirms proposal is underway .
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  #8754  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2015, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Cro Burnham View Post
My guess is it'll be at least ten years before we see more than a couple modest new 5 or 6 story buildings along the waterfront. It's taken the Navy Yard decades to get to the stage it's at and it is still, while cool, a long way from achieving any kind of meaningful urban dynamism.

But this is a great way to get the ball rolling.

I just wish Philly's waterfront group would be as proactive in enticing developers to build on all the vacant public land around Penn's Landing. It seems like the current Waterfront Development Corp is only slightly more aggressive then the lazy, patronage-heavy Penn's Landing Corp was over the prior 40 years.

I don't understand why the current Waterfront Dvlpt Corp can't just start bidding out parcels of land to developers with good track records and development plans right now while the iron is hot. How many more master plans and public input sessions need there be? The process is beyond slow, it's almost interminably frozen.

I mean is anything actually going on? Hammersklavier, do you know?

The biggest obstacle to the development of Penn's Landing seems to be that it is always controlled by these sloth-like patronage-laden public agencies that prefer endless studies and plans to actually facilitating action.
Last I checked the Waterfront Development Corp has an RFP out for Festival Pier, the company behind 1300 Fairmount and Toll Brothers both expressed interest.

I asked my contact about the lot they own between One Water Street and the Renaissance site and she told me that it's archaeologically sensitive. Meaning that they can't actually move it until they finish a dig that's hiding under that asphalt. Which they need a grant to do (though I asked about whether they had ever considered funding it from the sale's projected equity)...

And of course Penns Landing proper is in the middle of that Studio Bryan Hanes master plan. There are probably 3-4 development areas in the preliminary plan, but the final plan has to be released before RFPs can be tendered and yadda yadda yadda

Bureaucracy is a bitch.

PS. DRWC has been quite active! They're the ones behind that smash hit Spruce Street Harbor Park, and the roller rink in the ice rink. Though (especially with SSHP's success) I am increasingly convinced the parking lot between the Harbor Park and the Chart House access street should be considered the top Penn's Landing development site -- practically zilch in the way of needed changes, as opposed to up by the Great Plaza, where we're likely to see a grade change have to be worked in, or down by the South Street Bridge, where any redevelopment would bracket a (much-needed) bridge extension.
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  #8755  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 1:26 AM
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New Thread for the LPT Camden Waterfront Development
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=7176498#post7176498
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  #8756  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 1:50 AM
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New Thread for the LPT Camden Waterfront Development
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=7176498#post7176498
Can you please put these new threads under "City Compilations" for Philadelphia? Otherwise we have to hunt for them.
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  #8757  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 1:52 AM
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Can you please put these new threads under "City Compilations" for Philadelphia? Otherwise we have to hunt for them.
There is nothing I can do. An admin has to add them.
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  #8758  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 1:52 AM
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Work has started on the Schuylkill River Trail extension

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  #8759  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 1:55 AM
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There is nothing I can do. An admin has to add them.
Bummer. How do you recommend following the various threads for Philadelphia, without having to go through Chicago and NY stuff to find it? I'm sure there's a way of which I'm not aware. You obviously know how to do it.
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  #8760  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 1:59 AM
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Last edited by summersm343; Sep 25, 2015 at 2:12 PM.
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