PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[BenKatzPhillytoParis]

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20..._announce_Camden_waterfront_project.html

"The development will sit next to the aquarium, and between the ferry terminal building and the foot of the Benjamin Franklin Bridge. Preliminary architectural renderings shared with The Inquirer depict a series of buildings, two with skyscraper-like towers that would offer views of the Philadelphia skyline. The project will include 1.5 million square feet of office space and more than 200 residential units, one individual said."

Great that we get some highrise action here! After all the low-rise developments announced before, this is very exciting. Gradually integrating Camden as a core sub-market for relatively uninterrupted density between 40th street in UC to Camden seems like a good long-term vision now. Also: reopening PATCO Franklin Square, creating a PATCO stop in Olde City, and extending PATCO west of 16th street should be a part of that vision.

[mja]

I know we've been using the term game changer quite a bit lately, but I think this applies.

[Jawnadelphia]

Wow - just saw the renderings on philly.com - wild.

First instinct, I was a little jealous those aren't planned for this side of the Delaware ... but if this gets built then it's only a matter of time before more and more towers are built on the Philly side. Right?

[christof]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

Wow - just saw the renderings on philly.com - wild.

First instinct, I was a little jealous those aren't planned for this side of the Delaware ... but if this gets built then it's only a matter of time before more and more towers are built on the Philly side. Right?

1. This is Camden. I'll believe this when I see it.
2. Guess this is the end for the Camden Rivershark & professional baseball in Camden...

[1487]

Originally Posted by christof

1. This is Camden. I'll believe this when I see it.
2. Guess this is the end for the Camden Rivershark & professional baseball in Camden...

I was thinking same thing in terms of skepticism. I am not understanding why this grand announcement is scheduled if there are no concrete tenants. Article suggests several firms "might" relocate to the new towers. And two towers? Please. Lets get enough leases to justify ONE.

[mja]

I get the skepticism, given this is Camden & all, but this is also Liberty Property Trust. They've quite a track record. I don't think this is a question of if, but of when.

Now, that said, I do have some concerns about where the companies are going to come from to fill these towers. I have a feeling it's mostly just going to leech businesses from other parts of NJ who may also have space in Center City so that they can consolidate operations, reap tax benefits, still be located in NJ but just across the river from Philly.

[Plokoon11]

That looks around 700-800ft.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by mja

I get the skepticism, given this is Camden & all, but this is also Liberty Property Trust. They've quite a track record. I don't think this is a question of if, but of when.

Now, that said, I do have some concerns about where the companies are going to come from to fill these towers. I have a feeling it's mostly just going to leech businesses from other parts of NJ who may also have space in Center City so that they can consolidate operations, reap tax benefits, still be located in NJ but just across the river from Philly.

Well, it will be a negative if they take businesses from Center City, but that might be offset by grabbing businesses from the New Jersey suburbs. It's better for the region to have economic activity clustered centrally and near good transit than to have it spread out in Moorestown, Mt. Laurel, etc.

[mja]

Originally Posted by br323206

Well, it will be a negative if they take businesses from Center City, but that might be offset by grabbing businesses from the New Jersey suburbs. It's better for the region to have economic activity clustered centrally and near good transit than to have it spread out in Moorestown, Mt. Laurel, etc.

I think it could be a net benefit for even just Philly, in the long run. Sure, it might pull some businesses out of Center City, but there's a limit to how much it can pull and it's better for Philly to have Camden be a bustling satellite city than what it is currently.

[mja]

Originally Posted by Plokoon11

That looks around 700-800ft.

I was thinking more 600-700ft. The BF Bridge is 380 for comparison and the tower doesn't appear to be more than double the height of the bridge.

[McBane]

The towers are jaw droppers for sure. Beautiful. The article mentions some of the companies that have expressed interest:

Several South Jersey business leaders have pledged to invest in the project, according to the individual, who is directly involved with the plans.

The business figures include Democratic power broker George E. Norcross III, head of the Cooper University Hospital board and a longtime friend of Hankowsky's. Norcross' insurance firm, Conner Strong & Buckelew, is considering moving its headquarters into the development, the source said. The firm is currently based in Marlton and Philadelphia, where its offices are in Hankowsky's Liberty Two building.

Other companies expected to join the project include the Archer & Greiner P.C. law firm, which has offices in Haddonfield and Philadelphia; the Cherry Hill supply-chain company NFI Industries; and the Michaels Organization, a Cherry Hill housing company that has done work in Camden.

1. The bad news is that we already are seeing that there are going to be jobs moving from Philly to Camden.

2. The good news at least is that the article confirms that LPT still owns the Liberty complex and so they have a financial interest in making sure that vacancies created there (as a result of the Camden project) will be filled.

It's still a concern that CC is now surrounded by the east, south, and west by tax-free zones. Now more than ever, the city needs to get their business tax structure in order.

[Williard Mouse]

It's pretty clear now that the 76'ers practice facility will be a huge waste of valuable and strategic real estate.

[Williard Mouse]

Originally Posted by mja

I know we've been using the term game changer quite a bit lately, but I think this applies.

Perfect bookends for the Cira and FMC groupings.

[mja]

Originally Posted by McBane

The towers are jaw droppers for sure. Beautiful. The article mentions some of the companies that have expressed interest:



1. The bad news is that we already are seeing that there are going to be jobs moving from Philly to Camden.

2. The good news at least is that the article confirms that LPT still owns the Liberty complex and so they have a financial interest in making sure that vacancies created there (as a result of the Camden project) will be filled.

It's still a concern that CC is now surrounded by the east, south, and west by tax-free zones. Now more than ever, the city needs to get their business tax structure in order.

I'd be more concerned if Liberty & Brandywine weren't buying up land all around Center City. They both have pretty impressive track records and it seems like they're both just betting huge on Philly in general.

[Larry King]

Center city will do fine because it is BY FAR the most desirable 2 square miles in the entire delaware valley

[JLKim]

Originally Posted by christof

1. This is Camden. I'll believe this when I see it.
2. Guess this is the end for the Camden Rivershark & professional baseball in Camden...

I did hear the Riversharks may be leaving. However, it looks like the baseball stadium is still in this rendering:



Philly.com Article

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Larry King

Center city will do fine because it is BY FAR the most desirable 2 square miles in the entire delaware valley

Indeed. There's no way that it's going to be the hole in the donut. That said, it might be more residential than office if it doesn't compete well.

[cafeguy]

Originally Posted by Williard Mouse

Perfect bookends for the Cira and FMC groupings.

The towers are the WOW factor they need to get the "series of buildings" they refer to approved, built, and filled. We might see a tower one day, but these are likely a phase 3 prospect that won't come to fruition for another 10 years. Im always under the impression that center city is pretty cheap. Camden has tax incentives to build in right now, but what incentives does it have over philly for tenants? I can't imagine it could compete when there are plenty of nice big buildings across center city with the same amount of convenience but in a much nicer location. This just seems a bit unrealistic to me.

[Elevator1]

I believe the Baseball Stadium actually belongs to Rutgers Camden. Riversharks are a tenant.

[mja]

Originally Posted by cafeguy

The towers are the WOW factor they need to get the "series of buildings" they refer to approved, built, and filled. We might see a tower one day, but these are likely a phase 3 prospect that won't come to fruition for another 10 years. Im always under the impression that center city is pretty cheap. Camden has tax incentives to build in right now, but what incentives does it have over philly for tenants? I can't imagine it could compete when there are plenty of nice big buildings across center city with the same amount of convenience but in a much nicer location. This just seems a bit unrealistic to me.

I think it pulls companies headquartered in NJ burbs that may also have offices in CC. They consolidate operations, stay in NJ but are just a hop skip and a jump from CC, and get huge tax breaks.

And again, this is LPT. They get shit done and build actual buildings. This is basically the same model as the Navy Yard but just thrown across the river in Camden. AND they're still working on Comcast's vertical campus in CC. Basically, they're betting on the Philly metro in every possible way.