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View Poll Results: How Will You Vote On Election Day?
Conservative 50 21.65%
Liberal 117 50.65%
NDP 46 19.91%
Green 9 3.90%
BQ 6 2.60%
Other 3 1.30%
Voters: 231. You may not vote on this poll

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  #281  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 9:23 PM
Migs Migs is offline
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  #282  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 9:27 PM
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In less than 3 months Trudeau has gone from "committed to continuing to run balanced budgets” to 'small deficits' to 'I don't know how big they'll be'.

And you guys support this clown show?
     
     
  #283  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 9:30 PM
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Yep those child laborers are a bunch of lazy pinko commies! If only they'd pull themselves up by the bootstraps they'd have no problem becoming billionaires like Kevin O'Leary.
Your envy is evident.

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Your black and white simplification of things would be stupid and pathetic if it weren't so terribly sad. Don't worry Migs, papa Harper will keep you safe from ISIS and lazy socialists and education. Safe and stupid.
Meh, must be nothing.

http://news.yahoo.com/german-intelligence-concerned-islamists-recruiting-refugees-102046365.html
     
     
  #284  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 9:38 PM
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Talk about a nonsensical meme.

What lead to Tesla's impoverished state?

Is Hilton's father successful?
     
     
  #285  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 9:46 PM
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Depart of Justice on trial not vetting bills for constitutionality

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nati...hes-over-charter-rights/article26449862/


Quote:
Edgar Schmidt was once a lawyer earning $155,000 a year for the federal Justice Department, examining proposed laws for consistency with the Charter of Rights. But he felt uneasy about the way he was told to do his job, believing that officials in his own department – and the Justice Minister himself – were involving him in breaking the law. So he sued his employer.

Monday, in an Ottawa courtroom, his lawsuit against the Justice Minister, deputy justice minister and the department comes to trial, calling attention to an issue that has received little notice thus far in the federal election campaign: the Conservative government’s frequent clashes with the courts over the Charter of Rights.

The Justice Minister is required under a 1985 law to tell Parliament if a proposed law is not “consistent” with the Charter. To Mr. Schmidt, a law is either consistent or it is not. But his superiors in the department didn’t agree.

“Oh, that’s not what we do,” he says he was told. “We ask ourselves whether there’s an argument.” And even if the argument has less than a five-per-cent chance of success in the courts, it can still be “credible” – in other words, consistent.

“That is a kind of doublespeak,” the now-retired Mr. Schmidt says. (The justice department suspended him when he sued and, after six months without pay, he retired.) “Most of us, when we hear the word ‘credible,’ think ‘worthy of being believed.’ But that’s not what the department meant.”

If he wins, “it means government will likely pay a lot more attention to the Charter consistency of their legislation,” he said in an interview.

The Schmidt case lacks the — appeal of the Mike Duffy trial, about alleged fraud and bribery in the Senate, or the criminal trial of Bruce Carson, a former staffer in the Prime Minister’s Office, charged with influence peddling. Nor is it limited to the current government; the Justice Department’s interpretation of the 1985 law goes back many years.

But the trial raises sharp questions on governing in the Charter era for the Conservative government. No other government has clashed so often with the courts on Charter rights.



From refugee health-care cuts, to mandatory minimum sentences for illegal — possession, to an end to supervised use of illegal drugs at a Vancouver medical clinic, to retroactive loss of early parole for non-violent offenders, many Conservative laws have been struck down by the courts. (Three Supreme Court judges supported the mandatory minimums; but in several other cases, the court was unanimous in rejecting Conservative laws.)

To the federal government, the case is about carving out a space for elected politicians, not judges, to decide which laws to write. “Democracy is about who makes the difficult decisions about what a ‘right answer’ might be,” the Justice Department argues in an affidavit filed with the Federal Court of Canada. “It is for the Minister alone to decide whether he concludes that he has ascertained that a provision in a bill is inconsistent with guaranteed rights.”

It says that Mr. Schmidt’s approach to examining legislation would harm the principle that the civil service is neutral and supports the government of the day. “Political neutrality calls for an examination standard that supports the Minister in performing his duties, not one which purports to dictate how he should exercise them.”

But to the 62-year-old Mr. Schmidt, the government’s neutrality argument is faulty. “It starts from the wrong premise. It assumes that your loyalty is owed to the government. It’s not. The public service owes its loyalty to the Canadian democratic constitutional state.” He likens Justice Department lawyers to auditors for Enron, a U.S. energy company that engaged in fraud, who deemed their job to serve the executives, rather than the company itself.

The Justice Department lawyer who sued his employer is the son of Mennonite farmers from rural Manitoba. He was no rebel till late in his career. “Mennonites have a fairly strong streak of skepticism about the legal system. It grows out of their understanding of the New Testament. I think there’s an instruction of Paul in one of his letters, ‘Why are you taking your fellow believers to court? Can’t you find a way of resolving things among yourselves?’” But he came to believe that law establishes clear agreements that help in avoiding disputes.

“It was one of the reasons being a legislative drafter appealed to me. It was about helping a government that wanted to act in the public interest, find ways to express policies and implement them.” He believes the seeds of his unlikely rebellion were planted in his childhood. “Our family was not shy on debate. It was never assumed in our family that you couldn’t express an opinion that was contrary to someone else’s.”

Since the Justice Department formalized its “credible argument” interpretation of the law in 1993, there has not been a single instance in which the Justice Minister has advised Parliament that a law is not consistent with the Charter.
     
     
  #286  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 9:53 PM
geotag277 geotag277 is offline
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I never really understood the philosophy that says we need these departments advising the federal government on these things staffed to the brim with a plethora of individuals making six figures (some well over) in full time capacities.

If the government needs legal advice, it seems they could and should seek it on a case by case basis. Same with science. Same with anything really. Otherwise, the courts are doing what they should be doing, if a law is found in violation of the Charter, or some other federal precedent, it will be struck down.

Science departments, legal departments, advisory departments. These things are costing us millions and millions and millions of dollars. Where is the value-add?
     
     
  #287  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 9:59 PM
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Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
I never really understood the philosophy that says we need these departments advising the federal government on these things staffed to the brim with a plethora of individuals making six figures (some well over) in full time capacities.

If the government needs legal advice, it seems they could and should seek it on a case by case basis. Same with science. Same with anything really. Otherwise, the courts are doing what they should be doing, if a law is found in violation of the Charter, or some other federal precedent, it will be struck down.

Science departments, legal departments, advisory departments. These things are costing us millions and millions and millions of dollars. Where is the value-add?
Which is why we need evidence based policy not ideology and we aren't going to get that from the Harper government.
     
     
  #288  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 10:02 PM
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Which is why we need evidence based policy not ideology and we aren't going to get that from the Harper government.
Most non-partisan response I've ever heard
     
     
  #289  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 10:06 PM
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At 8:30 p.m... the NDP separatist versus the Liberal federalist. It's going to be great!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundla...square-off-in-cbc-radio-debate-1.3239287
     
     
  #290  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Migs View Post
Talk about a nonsensical meme.

What lead to Tesla's impoverished state?

Is Hilton's father successful?
     
     
  #291  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 10:10 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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So, a question for our Quebec-based forummers. What are the chances that the French-language debates will degenerate into yelling matches about Quebec secession and 50% +1? It seems like that would be a Bloc — and something the other leaders would want to avoid like the plague, but I'm wondering if Trudeau will be able to (or should) restrain himself?
Mulcair will be in the incumbent's position for the Quebec-centric debates so I'm expecting him to be under fire by everyone, therefore giving Harper somewhat of a break. The pressure will be on Mulcair, he's pretty much the only one who has anything to lose (and not much to hope to gain).

You can be 100% sure the niqab business will show up. Harper and especially Duceppe will be delighted to bring it up.
     
     
  #292  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 10:12 PM
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Disgusting and not at all surprising. But Migs is right, the Conservatives only care about protecting Canadians... from their Constitutional Rights. It's funny how the only people actually keeping this government in check are Supreme Court judges and lawyers. Hopefully he wins and sues their asses off.
     
     
  #293  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
I never really understood the philosophy that says we need these departments advising the federal government on these things staffed to the brim with a plethora of individuals making six figures (some well over) in full time capacities.

If the government needs legal advice, it seems they could and should seek it on a case by case basis. Same with science. Same with anything really. Otherwise, the courts are doing what they should be doing, if a law is found in violation of the Charter, or some other federal precedent, it will be struck down.

Science departments, legal departments, advisory departments. These things are costing us millions and millions and millions of dollars. Where is the value-add?
I would suggest the value add is in avoiding costly and lengthy trials like this one when it is found the government is violating the Charter. The Conservatives must have a massive tab they've stuck us with for all the time they've spent in court for violating our Charter Rights. It's never about saving money. It's all ideology.
     
     
  #294  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 10:23 PM
geotag277 geotag277 is offline
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I would suggest the value add is in avoiding costly and lengthy trials like this one when it is found the government is violating the Charter. The Conservatives must have a massive tab they've stuck us with for all the time they've spent in court for violating our Charter Rights. It's never about saving money. It's all ideology.
If anything the Conservative government is exposing the vacuous nature of these departments.

The Conservatives spent a paltry 4.7 million defending these cases. The fact these cases were brought to court is not in and of itself a sign of a problem, arguing these cases in court is actual a useful and productive endeavour which clarifies the laws.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conserva...fighting-15-losing-court-cases-1.3042725

According to recent budgets, the Justice Department in total is costing us almost a billion dollars a year.

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/cp-pm/qfr-rft/index.html

Let's really consider the value add here.
     
     
  #295  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 10:28 PM
Migs Migs is offline
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Facepalm is right. You're the one whining about capitalism when in truth we are a successful country because of capitalism. Your computer, phone, TV, car, etc is all from capitalism. Even the biggest of socialist talking heads are wealthy because of capitalism, ie Gore, Suzuki, Sanders, etc. frickin hypocrites.
     
     
  #296  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 10:31 PM
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Both TCTC and 308 have now updated their forecasts. They've been moving somewhat in lockstep (though not fully) but with important lag: TCTC is just now showing the Tories back on top over the NDP, while 308 had them there for a while already (though by a smaller margin).


TCTC:
http://www.tooclosetocall.ca/p/canada-2015.html

128
114
95
1
Total 338.




308:
http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/poll-tracker/2015/index.html

119
113
105
1
Total 338.
     
     
  #297  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 10:35 PM
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At 8:30 p.m... the NDP separatist versus the Liberal federalist. It's going to be great!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundla...square-off-in-cbc-radio-debate-1.3239287
Wonder if Clearly would score points by officially supporting 50% + 1 as the threshold for Newfoundland independence?

After all, 52% got you guys in... Can't possibly take more than that to leave!
     
     
  #298  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
I never really understood the philosophy that says we need these departments advising the federal government on these things staffed to the brim with a plethora of individuals making six figures (some well over) in full time capacities.

If the government needs legal advice, it seems they could and should seek it on a case by case basis. Same with science. Same with anything really. Otherwise, the courts are doing what they should be doing, if a law is found in violation of the Charter, or some other federal precedent, it will be struck down.

Science departments, legal departments, advisory departments. These things are costing us millions and millions and millions of dollars. Where is the value-add?
Contracting all the work out would be far more expensive, and the level of expertise would be questionable (some of the Justice lawyers,in particular, spend their whole careers in a single area of law). Traditionally, without the bureaucracy providing policy advice to government, the machinery would grind to a halt. The difference in recent years is that the Harper Government tells the bureaucracy what the policy is, regardless of any advice received, and the bureaucracy is expected to carry it out. The days of "speaking truth to power" and bureaucracy that provides the government with policy options to consider, has been greatly weakened.
     
     
  #299  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Mulcair will be in the incumbent's position for the Quebec-centric debates so I'm expecting him to be under fire by everyone, therefore giving Harper somewhat of a break. The pressure will be on Mulcair, he's pretty much the only one who has anything to lose (and not much to hope to gain).

You can be 100% sure the niqab business will show up. Harper and especially Duceppe will be delighted to bring it up.
In fact, I believe Duceppe raised the idea of using the "notwithstanding" clause of the Constitution to ban the niqab. Fascist.
     
     
  #300  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2015, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Contracting all the work out would be far more expensive, and the level of expertise would be questionable (some of the Justice lawyers,in particular, spend their whole careers in a single area of law). Traditionally, without the bureaucracy providing policy advice to government, the machinery would grind to a halt. The difference in recent years is that the Harper Government tells the bureaucracy what the policy is, regardless of any advice received, and the bureaucracy is expected to carry it out. The days of "speaking truth to power" and bureaucracy that provides the government with policy options to consider, has been greatly weakened.
[Citation needed]
     
     
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