Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2 - Page 170

esquire · #**3381** Posted **Sep 20, 2015, 6:16 PM**

^ I know we're veering into sports culture thread territory here, but the weird thing about eastern CFL teams (Hamilton excepted, they're basically an honourary western team for my purposes) is the near total disconnect between the fanbase and each team's rich heritage.

You go to a game in Winnipeg or Sask or Edmonton and there will be many people in the stands who were there when it was Kenny Ploen, Ron Lancaster or Jackie Parker throwing the ball. So many people are steeped in team tradition and culture. At a Bomber game, everyone is in a Bomber shirt or jersey or hat or what have you.

Contrast with an Argos game where it seems like half the people in the stands are out of place... no team gear, large groups of obvious giveaway/promo tickets (students, kids' teams etc.), "It's my first Argos game" signs, etc. I get the impression that a good chunk of the crowd doesn't even know the rules of football, let alone having any connectedness to the team's past the way that, say, a Leafs fan would.

In some ways the Argos will almost be like an expansion team next year... they'll be building that thing from the ground up.

SaskScraper · #**3382** Posted **Sep 20, 2015, 6:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkydivePilot

Well, if the Argos could [ever???] top Rider attendance numbers, then kudos to the Argos.

^^^agreed..
I have yet to experience a game day fan base that comes even close to what the Riders have in Regina where Mosaic stadium is a sea of green, thanks in part to the Rider merchandising that revivals the rest of the league put together. The fans are outgoing, cheerful, voicetrous, out to have a great time rain or shine.

I hope Argos can get there attendances back but it'll also take developing a fun game day experience and it takes time to foster fans to go all out like the Riders do.

OilCountry may have a sense for exaggeration more than anyone else on this forum (& write dozens of posts about an arena's new score, or something) his excitement of this kind of thing just has to be taken with a grain of salt.

drummer_god · #**3383** Posted **Sep 20, 2015, 7:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I know we're veering into sports culture thread territory here, but the weird thing about eastern CFL teams (Hamilton excepted, they're basically an honourary western team for my purposes) is the near total disconnect between the fanbase and each team's rich heritage.

You go to a game in Winnipeg or Sask or Edmonton and there will be many people in the stands who were there when it was Kenny Ploen, Ron Lancaster or Jackie Parker throwing the ball. So many people are steeped in team tradition and culture. At a Bomber game, everyone is in a Bomber shirt or jersey or hat or what have you.

Contrast with an Argos game where it seems like half the people in the stands are out of place... no team gear, large groups of obvious giveaway/promo tickets (students, kids' teams etc.), "It's my first Argos game" signs, etc. I get the impression that a good chunk of the crowd doesn't even know the rules of football, let alone having any connectedness to the team's past the way that, say, a Leafs fan would.

In some ways the Argos will almost be like an expansion team next year... they'll be building that thing from the ground up.

While this is true for Argo games, it is also the same at jays games. I often hear people explaining the difference between balls and strikes, what a balk is and other rules to newbies.
Each team has their devoted followers but winning brings out the newbies.

The Argos definitely need to do more to connect their rich past to their present.

elly63 · #**3384** Posted **Sep 20, 2015, 7:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I know we're veering into sports culture thread territory here, but the weird thing about eastern CFL teams is the near total disconnect between the fanbase and each team's rich heritage.

Especially true for Toronto which probably has the greatest heritage in the league extending all the way back to the 1800s. A real shame that people would be so apathetic to see that lost.

Dr Awesomesauce · #**3385** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 1:52 AM**

Unless those girls are going to sit on my lap, well...

osmo · #**3386** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 4:09 AM**

Calling the Argos a expansion team is about right. They have neglected building back up to thier base since Cynamon and Sokolowski. There is NO fan base of the Argos in the City of Toronto aside from a small pocket of South Etobicoke which is one of Toronto's last white blue collar areas. The rest of the base is suburban and it does a team a disservice to ignore that reality.

They have a generation gap where young people and kids have no connection to the team. On game days you see young adults do thier pilgrimage from thier downtown condos to Jays games, TFC games you see downtown with a sea of red on patios with people getting ready for the game. Argos games?... not a soul. You have no idea the Argos have hone dates because all of thier fans are coming out of GO from Union, and few actually exist in the city downtown.

Simply moving homes won't solve issues because nobody wants to say them openely. There is big work ahead and the Argos might be too late. The void left by then with youth football has been filled by the NCAA which is quietly using Southern Ontario as farm for good rounded kids to go okay down south. They are treating young GTA players well and many, if they are good, have all gone down to camps in Florida or elsewhere to be courted and snoozed by Nike and other big timers in football. The CIS is also aggressive with GTA kids offering then good scholarships to okay at Queens, etc. What are the Argos doing? For GTA youth football that is seeing a bug revival, nobody, NOBODY, is talking Argos. These kids love football but then go back and play and watch basketball in the winter and spring. Most of these kids aren't heavy NFL fans either surprisingly, they just love playing the game.

The Argos should be aggressive with these kids, and they do show up from time to time but none of kids are becoming Argos fans. Why?

Football is a big dud here in Toronto and may just not be culturally palatable for the city. There is a gaping hole that needs to be filled but it is going to take time and a lot of resources. My fear is that you continue to ignore the REAL fans who exist now in the suburbs, to lure in city folks who may never care for Argos football and you end up loosing out on both.

elly63 · #**3387** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 4:55 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

Unless those girls are going to sit on my lap, well...

Ease up on the viagra, gramps

Oilkountry · #**3388** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 7:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkydivePilot

Well, if the Argos could [ever???] top Rider attendance numbers, then kudos to the Argos.

I wouldn't be so cocky there big fella. I'm not questioning the riders pride in sask but from like 2005ish to 2009ish the Argos were outdrawing or equal to riders attendance numbers the and even in 2013 the Argos were pretty much filling BMO's capacity. I really don't think its as bas as you guys are making it out to be. They have work to do but I bet BMO is sold out for the next 5 seasons, I'm surprised 15,000 fans are even showing up to this abandoned teams games. They might have well of shut down the team for this season its been such a joke. why anyone is trying to pinpoint why the fan support has dwindled the few 2 seasons is beyond me i think its pretty obvious.

Migs · #**3389** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 7:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

???

I think you guys are underestimating how great its gonna be to watch a football game in this place. And argo fans can be loud.

I remeber the eastern final at RC a few years ago the place was rockin

Regardless this is gonna be a really intimate stadium when the canopy is on and the potential here deserves some respect. The only stadium that come close to this is TD place and the atmosphere there is ridiculous

I never said that the Argos at BMO Field wouldn't be fantastic but to say it would be the best atmosphere in the CFL is silly IMO. The new Mosaic Stadium is being designed specifically for CFL football by the same architects who've designed Cowboys Stadium, Lucas Oil Field, & the new Vikings stadium. Add to that Sask fans who are renowned for being electric. Heck did you watch the game on Saturday, the team is 1-11 & there were still 31,000 fans there partying.

Can't wait for the Argos in their new digs, it's gonna do wonders for that franchise.

FrankieFlowerpot · #**3390** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 12:55 PM**

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rockandrollfreak/21520455201/in/pool-urbantoronto/

Oilkountry · #**3391** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 2:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migs

I never said that the Argos at BMO Field wouldn't be fantastic but to say it would be the best atmosphere in the CFL is silly IMO. The new Mosaic Stadium is being designed specifically for CFL football by the same architects who've designed Cowboys Stadium, Lucas Oil Field, & the new Vikings stadium. Add to that Sask fans who are renowned for being electric. Heck did you watch the game on Saturday, the team is 1-11 & there were still 31,000 fans there partying.

Can't wait for the Argos in their new digs, it's gonna do wonders for that franchise.

I never said anything about BMO vs Mosiac nor did I compare them to riders. I said that they will be the riders of the east.

Migs · #**3392** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 2:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

I never said anything about BMO vs Mosiac nor did I compare them to riders. I said that they will be the riders of the east.

Do you even read what you write? You said BMO Field will have the best atmosphere in the CFL bar none. Riders are in the CFL

esquire · #**3393** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 2:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migs

Do you even read what you write? You said BMO Field will have the best atmosphere in the CFL bar none. Riders are in the CFL

That's what I recall. But either way, the Argos' situation will be much improved.

After all, Montreal was in pretty much the exact same spot... playing in front of 18,000 fans in a 58,000 seat dome made it look like there was no one there and no one cared. Change it up to a 20,000 seat venue and the place is sold out, atmosphere is great, and no one really talks about the team being a failure anymore even though the attendance needle barely moved in the long run.

Incidentally, I watched the Bombers/Als debacle and I have to say that on a sunny warm day, Molson Stadium looks like the most pleasant place possible to watch a football game, even if you're sitting on a bench instead of an actual seat. Is there any reason why the Impact didn't opt to play there instead of building a stadium of their own that is pretty much the same size, but a lot less charming and in a more out of the way location?

Chorduroy · #**3394** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 2:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

I never said anything about BMO vs Mosiac nor did I compare them to riders. I said that they will be the riders of the east.

Isn't that comparing?

Anyway - I had a nice long tour of new Mosaic on Saturday - checked out the view from the upper deck, stood on what will be the southeast patio, and stood where midfield will be (although they still need to dig down a bit). Very impressive stadium from all vantage points. It doesn't necessarily look all that big from the outside, but when you're inside, it feels HUGE. Having said that, it still feels intimate - the views from the upper deck are far better than you would expect.

Also very impressed by the concessions/washrooms area that I saw under the east side upper deck stands. Dare I say it will be the end of lineups? The concourses are very generous as well.

Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to post pics. But take my word for it - this is going to be an impressive place when it's done.

Coldrsx · #**3395** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 2:30 PM**

Edmonton arena and ICE District...

esquire · #**3396** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 2:34 PM**

Nice partial shot of the crowd at the Saskatchewan Huskies game at Griffiths Stadium in Saskatoon on Friday night:

Source: rodpedersen.com

cjones2451 · #**3397** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 3:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

That's what I recall. But either way, the Argos' situation will be much improved.

Is there any reason why the Impact didn't opt to play there instead of building a stadium of their own that is pretty much the same size, but a lot less charming and in a more out of the way location?

I think it has to do with a grass field, a turf field with all the markings it has would not be good to get guys like Drogba to play on. I also think they wanted control over the stadium which they wouldn't have at McGill

esquire · #**3398** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 3:08 PM**

^ Yeah, I guess artificial turf must have been the issue... Molson is heavily used by McGill as one of their athletic facilities, so no chance that there would ever be grass there anytime soon.

JHikka · #**3399** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 3:31 PM**

18,259 and 14,942 at the Remparts first two homes games at Centre Videotron. They have two more homes games this week (24th and 27th) so we'll see how far down the average attendance will drop as we get into the doldrums of the season attendance-wise (September/October are always the weakest months). At the old Colisee the Remparts average attendance for the season was as follows:

2014-2015: 9,698
2013-2014: 9,974
2012-2013: 11,345
2011-2012: 11,724
2010-2011: 11,680

The other two teams who play in similarly-sized NHL arenas, Calgary and Edmonton, draw on average between 6,000 and 9,000 per season, for comparison's sake.

Acajack · #**3400** Posted **Sep 21, 2015, 3:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Yeah, I guess artificial turf must have been the issue... Molson is heavily used by McGill as one of their athletic facilities, so no chance that there would ever be grass there anytime soon.

Yeah, although I have no reason to believe the Alouettes and their fans are happy at McGill, it's also very clear that they are "guests" there and it's still first and foremost McGill's stadium. Not the Alouettes.

It's admittedly a good relationship, but not the same as having your own venue like Saputo.