Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[esquire]

^ Yeah, the whole "BUT THE CITY WILL OWN THE BUILDING SO ALL THE SUBSIDIES ARE OK" angle you often hear in defense of arena/stadium subsidies is really more of an indictment of same. Oh wow, the city gets none of the profits but it has to pay for renovation/demolition of the arena once it's old and out of date... goody.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by elly63

Again, I ask the Calgary folk, is it coming out publicly that this is a lame design (the interior) or is Joe Calgarian happy with it?

They haven't released official interior or exterior designs yet. What's been shared are just placeholder concepts. I wouldn't get too worked up about it at this point. I'm sure the final designs will be impressive.

[GreatTallNorth2]

^I'd be worried. I'd rather have 2 hot chicks that weight 120 lbs each than 1 that weighs 240. I guess you are okay with this fatty.

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by craner

Calgary should just build a copy of Edmonton's arena & Regina's stadium and save the design fees.
I would be thrilled - both are looking great.

Calgary should adopt Regina's stadium design, for it is in the shape of a horseshoe. (Unless they cover it up one day.)

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by elly63

I think it will as well, I'm just wondering if KK knows that there are people who are disappointed with the stadium/fieldhouse setup. Externally I have no problem with it, but with no info to go on in these early days, we all are making assumptions about the interior and how "80's high school" the concept seems.

So either they are going to be doing some high tech stuff with the stands to make it intimate or hopefully they will be going back to the drawing board the next time a more specific proposal comes forth.

Again, I ask the Calgary folk, is it coming out publicly that this is a lame design (the interior) or is Joe Calgarian happy with it?

The biggest sticking point seems to be the tax money going towards it. A slight majority of Calgarians oppose it being funded with tax money. There's even an online petition going around to stop it https://www.taxpayer.com/resource-centre/petitions/petition?tpContentId=89

As for the Calgary forum, many share the concerns expressed here on this thread.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I don't get why Calgary is wedded to the idea of building a lame indoor stadium instead of a spectacular outdoor one for about the same pricetag. As has been pointed out before, the fieldhouse aspect of the stadium could easily be met with a far smaller and more modestly priced facility.

It's ridiculous that a city Calgary's size doesn't have an abundance of these facilities. Again to go back to my small city of 17,000 people, We have a 16,000 square foot field house with a raised running track the original price on the shack was 15M back in 07.



But this is the kicker. The city is breaking ground on another 26,000 foot facility right beside it to meet the demand for the current "Reid's field house" (oil companies will put naming rights on anything around here).

We also have various banquet rooms and halls in the area, so this is strictly a community use issue. How has facilities like this not been built in the heart of Calgary if we need 2 of them to meet demands?

I completely understand that what calgary is looking at is probably both or feild houses put together +10,000 square feet but still why $200M? I highly doubt something couldn't get done for 50M or less

[SkydivePilot]

A 16,000 sq foot fieldhouse would be a weightroom.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

^I'd be worried. I'd rather have 2 hot chicks that weight 120 lbs each than 1 that weighs 240. I guess you are okay with this fatty.

Brilliant reply. Well thought out and applicable to the conversation at hand.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

They haven't released official interior or exterior designs yet. What's been shared are just placeholder concepts. I wouldn't get too worked up about it at this point. I'm sure the final designs will be impressive.

I agree, but I would have thought that it would have been more polished as KK said they have been looking at the idea for seven or so years?

It's not the look, per se, I have an issue with, it is the track and the telescoping seats and how they will work. Doesn't McMahon have some of the best sightlines in the league, I wouldn't want to see that change.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

After all the fuss, I'm fairly certain CalgaryNext will get built. Too much momentum behind the concept

I think you need to google the word momentum. This project had it for about 15 minutes. The public opinion on the terrible design was a speed bump. The contaminated soil means your driving with your park brake on, The public outcry on tax dollars funding this project was a head wind. Combine those 3 with Nenshi's statement after the release and you have a a concrete block at the end of the road. Now your plowing through the ditch in a rain storm. Theirs no momentum to this project at all.

[esquire]

^ Yeah, that's a good summary. It does seem that the Calgary project has a lot of adversity to conquer.

You have to figure that the arena is almost assuredly going to happen given that CSEG could probably build one even with minimal government support and still operate it profitably. It's the stadium/fieldhouse component that is on shaky ground right now.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

I think you need to google the word momentum. This project had it for about 15 minutes. The public opinion on the terrible design was a speed bump. The contaminated soil means your driving with your park brake on, The public outcry on tax dollars funding this project was a head wind. Combine those 3 with Nenshi's statement after the release and you have a a concrete block at the end of the road. Now your plowing through the ditch in a rain storm. Theirs no momentum to this project at all.

At the end of the day, Nenshi has one vote on council. Heck, he may not even still be mayor when this eventually gets started.

There's taxpayer opposition to this right now, but that's going to be the case for every taxpayer sports facility built in the future. This will subside when the actual proposals get released and there are shovels in the ground.

Trust me, this will get built and it will be an amazing venue for a generation +. Too many powerful people with deep pockets and deeper connections are behind this. Now we just sit back and wait.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I don't get why Calgary is wedded to the idea of building a lame indoor stadium instead of a spectacular outdoor one for about the same pricetag. As has been pointed out before, the fieldhouse aspect of the stadium could easily be met with a far smaller and more modestly priced facility.

I think the City has identified a need for a World Class indoor venue for amateur athletes/sports and is looking to spend $200m in order to make that a reality. The City has shown no interest in creating a combined stadium and fieldhouse, which is a proposal being forwarded by CS&E. We need to separate the grand plans the City has for a fieldhouse and the grand proposal of CS&E.

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

At the end of the day, Nenshi has one vote on council. Heck, he may not even still be mayor when this eventually gets started.

There's taxpayer opposition to this right now, but that's going to be the case for every taxpayer sports facility built in the future. This will subside when the actual proposals get released and there are shovels in the ground.

Trust me, this will get built and it will be an amazing venue for a generation +. Too many powerful people with deep pockets and deeper connections are behind this. Now we just sit back and wait.

Nenshi has one more guaranteed vote at the moment than CS&E. At best, the populace is split on the issue and I reckon that most of the supporters are of the ilk of those who support secondary suites. While they may be for the idea, they are not going to go out of their way to support it.

[O-tacular]

I don't see this actually being built for another 7-10 years. I'd like to see something sooner, but not under this current arrangement. I don't think this will be as easy to build as TFA is suggesting either. And for such important, powerful men with deep pockets the presentation was very amateurish.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

At the end of the day, Nenshi has one vote on council. Heck, he may not even still be mayor when this eventually gets started.

There's taxpayer opposition to this right now, but that's going to be the case for every taxpayer sports facility built in the future. This will subside when the actual proposals get released and there are shovels in the ground.

Trust me, this will get built and it will be an amazing venue for a generation +. Too many powerful people with deep pockets and deeper connections are behind this. Now we just sit back and wait.

I have to agree with TFA on this. Other stadiums have found a way to get built in Canada with probably less things going for them than this project. Even if the economy really tanks I can see it getting built as an impetus to change.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by elly63

I have to agree with TFA on this. Other stadiums have found a way to get built in Canada with probably less things going for them than this project. Even if the economy really tanks I can see it getting built as an impetus to change.

Once again we don't see eye to eye elly. (lets keep it civil yeah?)

This is a whole different situation in Calgary. Not once in any stadium/Arena debate have I seen a Mayor/counsel so against the idea of even a dollar of tax money being contributed to sports venues. Stephen Mandel Was all for a new arena in Edmonton and all for a joint public/private partnership, so was most of city counsel and look how long it took to get shovels in the ground for rogers place, it was the dirtiest arena funding debate I have ever witnessed. In Winnipeg True North was lucky to only ask a very small amount for the MTS centre. The rough riders are a non profit/ Community owned team that gives back huge to the province and make up a big part of the fabric of Saskatchewan. The bombers brought just about 50% to the table when they wanted to build IGF, also you had provincial participation and it serves a major university. ACC/Bell both built with private funds. THF was built for the pan am games so you had 3 levels of government participation on so on and so forth. This is the farthest thing from a repeat of any other stadium/arena deal in Canada.

If king Didn't want the City of Calgary to front the Ticket tax money he would have made a valid effort to dismiss the allegations in the various radio interviews hes had since the announcement to save face and end the speculation?.

This isn't Nenshi playing possum or posturing the flames. These are legit issues that could cost the city up to a billion dollars

♦ The proposal has not been part of the City’s comprehensive capital planning process, and does not form part of the plan, under which the City’s capital funds are fully allocated through 2018;

♦ The proposal includes incorporating the City’s proposed (and much-needed) fieldhouse into the facility. However, that project, while a very high priority for the City, remains unfunded;

♦ The funding proposal includes a $250-million “ticket tax,” but it is unclear if the City will be asked to provide the upfront financing for this;

♦ The proposed site requires significant expenditures to remediate the environmental contamination there. That remediation is also unfunded;

♦ In addition, the proposal requires the contribution of land, a community revitalization levy and significant investments in infrastructure to make the West Village a complete and vibrant community.

Therefore, there are very significant requirements for public funding beyond the fieldhouse funding, and there is currently no money.

I have said for a long time — and continue to strongly believe — that public money must be for public benefit and not private profit.

Fisher you are extremely naive if you think it's a no brainer. My outlook is it won't get done. An arena will get built and shortly after a stadium will follow but not with this funding model and not this design

[Migs]

Exterior of Regina's stadium starting to take shape.

https://twitter.com/yqrstadium/status/637346321473536000

[HomeInMyShoes]

I have two words for all of this: Olympic bid!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

I have two words for all of this: Olympic bid!

Haha

Then the federal dollars magically appear because somehow it's OK to build pro sports facilities on the public dime as long as some elite amateurs get to use them for a couple of weeks.

Not a bad plan!

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

At the end of the day, Nenshi has one vote on council. Heck, he may not even still be mayor when this eventually gets started.

There's taxpayer opposition to this right now, but that's going to be the case for every taxpayer sports facility built in the future. This will subside when the actual proposals get released and there are shovels in the ground.

Trust me, this will get built and it will be an amazing venue for a generation +. Too many powerful people with deep pockets and deeper connections are behind this. Now we just sit back and wait.

The arena and fieldhouse will be built.

arena - 100% or nearly 100% privately financed
Fieldhouse - $200 million from government


I bet the stadium component of the fieldhouse will never be built. Ownership won't pay for it and neither will the government. In 10 years time, the team will still be playing at Mcmahon with some refurbishments.